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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 4:21:24 PM
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I'm really glad I bought a 2yo - I've never had a v young horse before, and it's so fascinating watching them develop.
When I bought my colt (H Tobago - Psytadel x Teeba) he was utterly beautiful, but still very much a pretty little boy (you know, with conkers in his pockets, bouncy and mischievous, but still saying please and thank you to grown ups and hoping for a biscuit). I visit him again only a couple of months later, and meet this big rampaging adolescent, full of himself, shouting his head off, sex-obsessed (copies of Playboy have replaced the conkers)!
Yes, I know: the testosterone has kicked in - and how!
But what is amazing is how much he has changed physically. He has grown, filled out, muscled up - and looks superb, truly breathtaking. So far, as one might expect, I suppose. But his head also seems to have improved - it was lovely to start with, but now looks shorter, more chiselled and even more dishy, with even bigger eyes. Is that possible? I thought heads didn't change all that much? Is this what people mean by 'drying out'? Can it happen that quickly?
Hoping some more experienced ALiners can explain!
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 4:57:52 PM
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Sorry Lyndilou - I expressed myself badly.  I suppose what I mean is has anyone else experienced this? I was amazed, but I'm a novice so maybe it is normal? To clarify: I'm not talking about a sudden ugly-duckling-into-swan transformation - he always had a pretty head, I just didn't expect it to get prettier, or at least not so quickly! Have any other ALiners seen this kind of rapid improvement in their young horses? |
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Hollyhill
Gold Member
589 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:19:07 PM
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Yup I have noticed much the same with my 2 year old - he has been through some fairly plain stages, but now his head is quality! Not over extreme (not my type anyway) but pure class, refined and elegant!
Comparing with photos of him as a foalie, its not the same horse! |
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NPA Arabians
Moderator
United Kingdom
2980 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:19:42 PM
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I have seen rapid changes from Spring to Summer, - even when you thought they had no Excess hair in the Spring.
Perhaps i am wrong, but my horses - (who spend pleanty of time in the field whatever the weather), seem to have more "flesh" on the bones of their heads over the winter, which seems to disapear once summer is really here. - Does that make sence???
I will see if i can find photos to illustrate |
     
Jayne Armstrong - NPA Arabians
:-) :-) :-) :-) |
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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:20:40 PM
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Hi Kate
Not experienced, and can't explain, but I think that my boy's head has improved too! I bought him as a 2 and a half yo colt, and now as just over 4 yo gelding, I think he has really grown into himself, including his head. He doesn't have a tiny muzzle, or a very pronounced dish, but has a very beautiful head all the same. The thing that seems to have changed most is the width of his forehead, between his eyes, and less so, the width of his cheek - these in turn have made his dish seem more pronounced and his muzzle smaller in comparision, and the length of his head shorter.
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Kelly
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dassa23
Silver Member
England
261 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:29:31 PM
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Yes I agree with Kelly!
My Assad Gelding who is now three has changed too! I bought him as a yearling.
His cheek is much 'deeper' and the distance between his eyes wider. and just generally more defined and his eyes are more pronounced! Sorry not very good at explaining myself but he definitely looks more of a man now! Bless him |
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Adara_Arabians
Gold Member
England
736 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:46:15 PM
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Hi Kate
It seems we may have something in common i am in great thinking of having H Tamina, bay yearling filly by Teeba, half sister to you boy. I guess if all goes well your one step ahead of me and hopefully i will have all this to look forward to.
Lauren |
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avanti
Platinum Member
England
2222 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 5:52:01 PM
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| Hi, heads will improve (or change) throughout life, as they age the flesh becomes less on the face, some people call it "drying out", sounds like a crispy old egyptian mummy, doesn't it, I also notice that mine look different in the head summer and winter, I have a 24 yr old mare that has never looked more beautiful, Mandy. |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 6:10:21 PM
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By the way Katefox1812 was that you in the Sunday Times Style section? See what I mean girls, small and blonde like lots of Arab owners! (sorry wrong section)
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West Sussex |
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Adara_Arabians
Gold Member
England
736 Posts |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 6:37:49 PM
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Er, yes, it was me in the ST. A bit embarrassing. I completely forgot and didn't buy a copy.
Much more important - I'm so excited to hear about Tamina! I've seen a pic of her and she's lovely (like all Claire's horses). Teeba is a super mare - seems to produce something special from every stallion she's bred to. Not surprising - Teeba was bred by the great guru Jane Kadri! My boy is by Psytadel - I can't remember who Tamina's daddy is - can you remind me?
V interesting responses about the head thing - thank you! I'm glad to hear that it does happen - that other people have seen the same thing and it isn't just my fevered imagination!
Any more observations on improving heads???? |
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Adara_Arabians
Gold Member
England
736 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 6:42:06 PM
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yea im in Cyprus at the moment but when i get back Wed hopefully all steam ahead with getting her, cant wait. her daddy is Simeon Sadir i i have spelt it right off the top of my head.
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Edited by - Adara_Arabians on 04 Jul 2006 08:40:21 AM |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 06:52:13 AM
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| I was told by George White, head groom at the Abel-Smith's stud thsat they go improving until they are about 10 and I have actually found this to be true. |
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Adara_Arabians
Gold Member
England
736 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 08:29:33 AM
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thats it thanks Michelle lol
like i said off the top of my head, not great being a blonde |
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Sasha Melia
Gold Member
England
1333 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 09:58:23 AM
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Hi
All Arabian heads go through massive changes from baby to adult. The most dramatic changes are between foal and yearling, where the shape and structure of the head starts to take shape, followed by further changes from yearling to about 3 or 4 years old when the teeth are coming through and the head starts to mature and dry out. Many Arabians get tooth bumps, sometimes in both the top and the bottom jaws, which can sometimes be a bit unattractice. However some heads, especially straight egyptians can take MUCH longer for all the tooth bumps to go and to reach their full beauty! Some heads dont fully dry out until the horse is 5 or 6, or sometimes even older.
I have seen not so attractive heads improve with age, and vice versa, some lovely heads can go right off, so it's a bit of a hard one to predict! |
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Edited by - Sasha Melia on 04 Jul 2006 10:03:44 AM |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 2:04:17 PM
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I have found that Straight Egyptians are often born with plainer heads that mixed blood foals and they often become more and more beautiful as they age whereas some of the mixed breeding Arabs are born with gorgeous heads which then become less so as they age. However, there is no hard and fast rule which is why it is often difficult to predict what a foal will mature into. I have seen some gorgeous foals and thought "Wish I could aford that" and on seeing them years later been glad I couldn't! You only have to look back through the foal and youngstock champions and see which ones have remained tip top show winners, not too many.
Some youngsters look very mature for their age and then seem to have "nothing to grow into", I personally prefer to see a youngster who doesn't look too mature.
I am sure others will entirely disagree with me, we all base our assessments on our own experince.
Barbara |
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Sasha Melia
Gold Member
England
1333 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 2:18:28 PM
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Hi Barbara
I agree about the maturing thing - I think that a lot of the youngsters that we see nowadays in the show ring that already have the extreme look in the head as a yearling/2 - 3 year old, can go quite coarse looking once they are mature. Not true in all cases of course, as there are always horses that are born stunning and that will always be that way! |
www.facebook.com/MukhtarIbnEternity
www.mukhtaribneternity.co.uk
****************************SILHOUETTE ARABIANS****************************
Home of Mukhtar Ibn Eternity (Eternity Ibn Navarrone-D x Monsoon by Djammal) AKA Mooky! |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 2:40:22 PM
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| Originally posted by barbara.gregory
Some youngsters look very mature for their age and then seem to have "nothing to grow into", I personally prefer to see a youngster who doesn't look too mature.
I am sure others will entirely disagree with me, we all base our assessments on our own experience.
Barbara
Well, I totally agree with you! During my search for my 'supercolt' I saw some youngsters that looked way too mature - one yearling looked like a full-grown adult pony - and one just feels that if they are too fully-formed at this age they will either not grow much and stay looking ponyish, or grow up too coarse and heavy. I chose Tobago partly because he had been a rather immature, delicate-looking yearling, and still had that slightly immature, almost feminine quality as a 2yo. He's now 'getting in touch with his masculine side' and growing so fast his trainers are having trouble keeping weight on him, but is still pretty and refined, whereas a more mature yearling might have lost these qualities.
But I'm not a breeder, so I don't really know this from direct experience the way you do - I'm just going on instinct and observation and, mainly, expert guidance from my 'mentor'!
I would not really trust myself to buy anything younger than a 2yo, though - I think you need to be very experienced to judge foals and yearlings. Even looking at 2-year-olds, I was glad to have expert advice. |
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Lanabanana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2691 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 3:48:01 PM
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| Crikey Barbara I so agree with what you've said, a while back I bred an SE foal who was a strapping big foal he looked about a month old when he was born, his head was very plain for a purebred and you could have been forgiven for thinking he was an anglo (no offence anglo owners) to top it off he wasn't exactly my favourite colour either, anyway because I hate to sell anything we kept him and now in the last year at the age of 7 his head has finally dried out and he has a lovely head by anyones standard. If I can find a any photos of him as a foal (didn't take many)! I will post some then and now for comparison. |
     
Hampshire. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 5:13:45 PM
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Hi Lanabanana
Plain head and "dead rat" colour doesn't do them any favours, does it!!!!
Then suddenl the ugly duckling is a swan after a long long wait.
Barbara |
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jasjmm
Gold Member
625 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 11:05:14 PM
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Hi Barbara, Hi Kate
Do you have pictures as a foal? they say they come back to what they were as a foal. There's also no shortcut to GROWING!!! I love seeing the mature mares and stallions, when they are about 10 and you have the "finished product". Lovely example is Jacqui and Andrew Atkins' Karat - about the driest head I have ever seen. I love him.
Lots of luck with him Kate...
Mary :) |
    
Bristol |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 01:39:14 AM
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I can see where your confusion would arise Kate! What you need to remember is that as well as having a "mini version" of their adult bone structure, foals also exhibit to a greater or lesser degree (depending on breeding) the "standard" "cute baby mammal look" superemposed on top. This is the bulging forehead, huge eyes and short face look that we as mammals ourselves are programmed to respond to! To put it crudely its the "AWWWWWW" factor Where the foal has lots of "AWWWWW" the mature animal will more than likely look quite differant(by which I do not mean ugly or plain etc), whereas with little or no "AWWWWW" the mature animal will closely resemble how it looked as a foal, possibly improving considerably along the way.
By way of illustration, two photo's taken four years apart of our plainest foal of the last ten years or so
Mike |
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Sasha Melia
Gold Member
England
1333 Posts |
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