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kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 09:07:27 AM
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I know nothing about it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion LOL!! I like 'em small and prefer to look at a 14h - 14.3 as I just think they look completely like "an Arab" whereas taller ones look like horses that just happen to be Arabs - if that makes sense to anyone else! I also prefer riding smaller ones, more "pony-like", but then I have never particularly enjoyed riding a "horse".
I don't mind if people breed taller Arabs, if that's what they want, as long as we don't lose the small ones, which to my eye are the "real thing".The perfection of the whole picture,that's the thing IMO |
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cassy
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 09:23:01 AM
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| This is a interesting topic as i myself never bred for height at all and im only tiny so also sml suits me fine, however my 2006 colt foal is out of a 15hh mare n i think sire is around 14.2hh yet foal looks like he will be making 16hh, conformation, body, legs, movement ect always v high marks in the showring but he def aint going to be small and so far everytime out is much bigger than his competition inc those older than him, everyone that has seen him asks what is he fed, how old ect ect but the truth is he lives out 24/7 on nothing but green grass and is absolutely thriving and he is shown from grass too:) |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 09:42:06 AM
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Originally posted by MikeThere has always been the odd unusually tall horse, Riffal was 16h as was El Shaklan rather more recently, whilst Rijm and Gharib were taller still  However even Lady Wentworth found that getting quality, refinement, type, balance and height in one horse is incredibly difficult  I don't personally believe that extra height for its own sake is something that should be pursued, not even by breeders of Lady W's calibre  Mike
Ah, yes - El Shaklan! I knew there was another shining 16hh example I had forgotten! No-one could say he was off-type! I'm sure Mike with your encyclopaedic knowledge you could give us a few more examples???
But I take your point that extra height should not be pursued for its own sake. Much as I believe that a bit of extra height is a good thing for the breed, when I was buying a colt, I bought the best one I could find, not the tallest.
But perhaps it might be a bit easier now to breed good, slightly bigger Arabs than it was in Lady W's time, as there are many more good big ones around? As SueB on this thread pointed out, Arabs have naturally become taller on average with good feeding, etc., without any loss of type or quality. (Humans have got taller too - although not necessarily any better quality! ) Surely this natural overall increase in height should make it somewhat easier to breed high-quality taller Arabs? Or am I missing something?
Would you not agree Mike, at least in principle, that a beautiful, balanced, typey, well-conformed, good-tempered 16hh pure-bred Olympic eventer would be a good thing for the breed?
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 12:00:28 PM
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An Arab is a horse, not a pony. It has the feel of riding a horse not a pony. For those wishing to excell in the show ring under saddle, I mean ridden showing only, it does help if the Arab is 15 hands or more.
Now everyone will come back and say mine isn't and it won so and so, I am using this as a wider example of why there is a leaning towards breeding taller arabs. If it fails in the show ring in-hand, what do you do with it? most sell on as a riding horse, and most riders want a tall one.
Honest facts here I am often asked do I have an arab for sale over 15 hands for the ridden classes. So it helps when advertising something to sell, which we all will have done I'm sure, we put the height in the advert? or the height we think it will make. It becomes part of the selling aid.
Have I missed the point of Lynda's first excellent post or are we now pointing the finger at someone who specifically breeds tall arabs yes I have missed it entirely then.
Kate, I would like to mention your posts on another site about 'what our arabs do for us'. I rarely go there, but have seen your input and think they are such honest and heartwarming posts.
Why can't this site follow suit?
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 6:31:05 PM
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I used to own a 13.1hh purebred - and he felt like riding a 16.2hh. Long striding, elegant moving, trusted me to do what was asked of him and very pretty - he'd never make it as a show horse as he did have faults (due to birth problems), though they cause him no problems under sadddle. He's now with a young girl doing all sorts of activities.
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 7:04:37 PM
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For what it's worth, I think when you look at a photo without anything to measure scale against, you shouldn't be able to tell what size an Arab is---if it is in proportion it won't matter. I prefer them to look like horses, but there are some very small ones who do look like horses and I have seen some around 15hh who look like ponies.
I am about 5'9" and my beloved Zan was only 15hh, and all horse He rode very big and would leave my friend's 16.3hh dressage horse standing at all paces if we hacked out together right up till he was 20 and she was just 12.
BUT I fancied something bigger after he had gone and Zaharoff is just under 16hh (very typey with it IMO, but hey, what do I know). I love schooling and I have to say it is much more comfortable for me and easier to use my body properly re position, shifts of weight etc. because he is a much better size for me. His mum is only 14.2 and I don't think his dad was big either. I think it is reasonable that they are getting larger with improved nutrition etc. just as already has been pointed out, humans are, and there is certainly no need for them to change shape in the process. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 11:40:02 PM
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Do you remember when I said I knew this chap in the 70's of 16 stones who rode an arab stallion of 14 hands , guess what,  I went to vist an old friend today and she brought out a picture of said arabian stallion and man ! tomorrow I will get someone to post the picture and maybe someone will recognize them ? the stallion was bred by Liz Salmon and I think his name was "Ben of fairfield ", but I will look it up. So watch this space for a bit of history Liz if you see this thread please can you confirm his name? many thanks lynda |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 09:05:38 AM
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Originally posted by SueBAn Arab is a horse, not a pony. It has the feel of riding a horse not a pony. For those wishing to excell in the show ring under saddle, I mean ridden showing only, it does help if the Arab is 15 hands or more. Now everyone will come back and say mine isn't and it won so and so, I am using this as a wider example of why there is a leaning towards breeding taller arabs. If it fails in the show ring in-hand, what do you do with it? most sell on as a riding horse, and most riders want a tall one. Honest facts here I am often asked do I have an arab for sale over 15 hands for the ridden classes. So it helps when advertising something to sell, which we all will have done I'm sure, we put the height in the advert? or the height we think it will make. It becomes part of the selling aid. Have I missed the point of Lynda's first excellent post or are we now pointing the finger at someone who specifically breeds tall arabs yes I have missed it entirely then. Kate, I would like to mention your posts on another site about 'what our arabs do for us'. I rarely go there, but have seen your input and think they are such honest and heartwarming posts. Why can't this site follow suit?
Some very good points here - I would only add that I think the horses that win in hand should show under saddle too, not just the ones that fail in hand (although I'm sure that's what you meant, Sue)
I agree about the very nice thread on 'the other site' about what our Arab horses do for us on a personal level - maybe you could start a similar topic here, Sue? (I would do it but I feel I've been shooting my mouth off on here rather a lot recently, and people might be getting a bit fed up with me  )
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 12:27:36 PM
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Yes, I do mean in-hands to go on and be ridden! Something lots of us on here promote only too well.
I understand that in the ridden classes (ridden showing classes) the judge is now allowed to choose to not ride any horse of a small height. This horse will then have to do it's individual show.
(We need a ridden judge to answer the actual height if there is one?) Can't remember.
I did a conformation stint the other week and my rider only rode about four of the exhibits. Although I don't feel this put the small horses at a disadvantage, one of the small ones came 2nd, if I were an exhibitor, I would prefer a judge to ride, so they may 'feel' how good my horse was on the day.
Whilst I don't wish to get into a long drawn out discussion on judging ridden arabs, I am only pointing out the added benefit to owning and riding a larger arab
Sorry if this upsets the smaller ones.
There is a place for them, I have had endurance riders enquire specifically for smaller arabs, so the rider can get on and off easerly!! (I fit this catagory too)
endurance riders will now all say they want big ones too
What I am trying to say is, there is something for all arabs to excell at, it's just a case of finding the niche for yours. |
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Debbie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1138 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 1:03:38 PM
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| Well the lovely small stallion Sorrento has just come out under saddle ridden by the tall Louise Maryon and they won their open class and went on to be reserve champion. Thankfully he is so well made that his height was not an issue. |
Debbie
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 2:19:41 PM
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Well, I seem to have tall arabs on my yard, but it wasn't on purpose. My colt is probably going to be near 16hh when he has finsihed growing, i have a mare who is 15hh and her 2 year old daughter is taller than her, another who is 15.1hh and two at 14.3hh, who happen to be the oldest.
I don't really care what height horses are as long as they are in proportion. I can't stand horses that are big all over as yearlings and grow into great hulking digbys! I like refined in every way, whatever the height.
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IIsis Arabians
www.iisisarabians.com www.ali-abbas.co.uk
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 3:03:44 PM
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Going off height for the moment, thought you may all enjoy this.
Classic poem written by Salim Abdulla Haj in late 1860 for the ruler of Bahrain at the time.
Allah hath blessed Bahrain
in abundance,
And clothed her in finest rainment.
Know ye there existeth a mare
Swift
With highborne silken tail
Broad and level of croup
With rounded hip and short back
The length of thumb abd forefinger
Not thumb and longfinger
Her stride swalloweth the distance
Yet her canter becometh
a soft cushion
She standeth high over the earth
Deep of girth and
Lean of flank as the bounding saluki
Long is her neck which joineth
A delicate throat
Her large head flexeth with ease
Yea, it is likened unto a rich
merchants safe.
How exquisite her ears
Ponted as a date flower bud
A comely blaze enhanceth her
smooth cheeks
And generous mouth
And long black lashes
Fringe her great eyes which are
Likened to those of the desert oryx.
Know that ye must bridle her
With a sizeable and strong bit
Nine points hath she wide!
Her nostrils flareth when
She gathereth the wind to her.
Her chest is power
The grace and strength of
her shoulders
Astonisheth the eye.
Allah! Like a gazelle
Alert
She leaps from dangers path
Her round jet-hued hooves
Ravisheth the earth
Yet the desert taketh delight
Whatsoever the treadeth
Behold her short pasterns
Spanneth but four fingers
Indded Allah hath fashioned
her forelimbs
In His perfect way.
She standeth high from earth to hock
To hip
And broad are her buttocks.
Her shapeliness beareth testimony to
Allah's enduring blessing
For her master attendeth her
Even before he meet his own needs
Lo she descendeth from nobility
A dark bay
Her colour affirmeth an
ancient heritage.
She excemplifieth that which
is called beautiful
This daughter
Born in Awal
Praise be to Allah
The Shaikh's ancestors
Hath bestowed upon him
The Treasure of Ages.
Hope you like it!
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pagey |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 3:07:08 PM
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In princable Kate, 16hh event etc arab horse, would do wonders for the breed.
Something like Tamarillo, only pure bred!
Can you imagine that! |
pagey |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 3:16:55 PM
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I have a mare 16hands, 6 years, and she will be going on the for sale section shortly, but she came home today after three weeks sold to this man who knows nothing about arabs or he would have known she was not a head shaker she is now soo thin , I cant take pix of her until she has put weight on  ! ) poor little bu...r I returned all his money, so now I am stony broke |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 4:02:02 PM
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Oh i'm sorry Lynda. At least she is back in your capable hands.
What is wrong with people? |
pagey |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 4:40:38 PM
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| Your never 'broke' when you have an Arab to love and be loved by |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 6:07:18 PM
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Oooh - Lynda - I have a friend who might be interested in your mare! I'll look out for her on the Sale section.
Only prob is that my friend is 'saving up' to buy a horse, and was not really expecting to buy until next year. She wants a mare to ride and also to breed to my Tobago! She's not an 'Arab person' (yet) but has fallen in love with Tobago. She's a v good rider and a 16hh mare would be perfect, as she is more accustomed to big Warmblood dressage horses, so the switch to a little Arab might be too much of a for her! |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 08:26:33 AM
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Hi Kate, its a shame as far as your friend goes because I was going to leave her open, ( for riding) but this man wanted her covered again with WSA Charismma. so now she is in foal, so as for a ridden mare she will have to wait at least 18 months. Nikki dont worry she will not step outside this yard until I find the best home she can possibly have I will be talking to Paula today about an advert for her and her lovely colt, and although I cant add photos yet I will be putting her up for sale and some lucky person will get a very beautiful and loving mare who is about as big as you will ever get for an arab and is carrying the precious blood of WSA Charismma***! advert done and will be up today |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 07 Jul 2006 10:57:36 AM |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 2:15:11 PM
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Here's the photo Lynda was talking about with the big/heavy rider and his 14 hand Arabian
Anne
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I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 4:38:15 PM
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Yes this is he! (Thanks Anfi ) although he looks bigger, but I think Richard is standing downhill a bit! is there anyone who can recognize him ? I believe he was bred by liz Salmon as he had the prifix "fairfield" and Richard used to call him Ben, although that might have been his stable name.
The sad fact is Richard Ronain passed away a couple of years ago, he was an interesting man who as I said used to work in films as an extra riding and driving horses, I would like to do some research on him and maybe write an article if I can collect enough information about him, as I said I knew him for a few years back in the 70's but lost touch. |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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NPA Arabians
Moderator
United Kingdom
2980 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 5:18:52 PM
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Linda - from the datasource:
MUSKA OF FAIRFIELD AHSB*3793 1966 Chestnut Stallion
MIRKIBA OF FAIRFIELD AHSB*4276 1968 Chestnut Stallion
KALOUKI OF FAIRFIELD AHSB*5783 1972 Chestnut Stallion
MAHRANI OF FAIRFIELD AHSB*5843 1972 Chestnut Stallion
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Jayne Armstrong - NPA Arabians
:-) :-) :-) :-) |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 5:28:02 PM
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| Thanks Jayne but I suppose he could be any one of those, I have E mailed Liz salmon in the states , as yet no answer, I wonder if she will recognize him ? I wish I could remember the exact year I knew him that might help, unfortunatly the 70's were a blurr! ( well I was young then !) now its a blurr for a different reason ! (old Age !) |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 10:17:23 AM
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What a lovely boy? A really neat compact arab.
Nicky |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 1:14:56 PM
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| I have been in touch with Liz salmon and she seems to think he was MUSKA OF FAIFIELD 1966, I have pulled up his pedigree and he was an excellent Crabbet/ old english stallion, whould anyone have him in their pedigree's today ? I would be really interested to know. |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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