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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 10:03:40 PM
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Cassie I wouldn’t lose sleep over this, my girl has had numerous anonymous appraisals   and hasn’t even been anywhere LOL. He's obviously worth talking about I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of the rumours eventually, it's amazing who knows who
In the meantime show for YOURSELF and bugger the rest 
Amateurs built the Ark, Proffesionals built the Titanic |
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Jilly
Platinum Member
England
2431 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 10:13:41 PM
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georgiauk, what a brilliant quote will have to remember that one  What do you think Angie |
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Anne C
Gold Member
United Kingdom
886 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 10:22:32 PM
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Very appropriate!!! Might catch on!
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Anne |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 10:49:38 PM
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Really sorry to hear you have been upset Angie, I found it quite depressing to read of both your recent experience and Sue's after her open day last week. Linking tenuously back to the original topic, was such backbiting as prevalent 20 years ago? I went to shows in my teens, back when the National Show was held at Ascot and I don't recall such rancour but that could just be my personal experience (and addled brain) electing to remember the good bits! Have the attitudes of the people involved changed as much or as little as the horses may have done?
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 09:02:18 AM
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Cassy,
Firstly, we all have started out as amateurs and secondly, I bet many of us have been subjected to nastiness about our horses. I got a lot of flack when I imported Narim back in 1985 (the first Russian horse to be imported for 20 years)- I was ruining the bloodlines in the country, Russian horses are ugly (this without them having seen him), did I know what I was doing, and other such nonsense. Well Narim has proved them dramatically wrong, and look at how many Russian horses are now in the UK and winning fantastically.
Nah girl, please just do you what you want and ignore them . And it is true that noone is going to bother making comments if you had your horses just sitting ia a field and not exposed to the world.
Onwards and upwards, Cassy .
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 09:32:45 AM
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One has to accept some criticism of our horses but there are ways to do it. It is never excusable to be rude. I remember years ago someone asking me what I thought of her mare. I hadn't actually realised she was purebred, didn't look it. The owner knew she wasn't a "show" horse but she was a lovely riding horse and very loved. There were a lot of nice things for me to say; good legs, kind eye (but not a good eye although that wasn't said), lovely colour (very dark bay which I love), very good shoulder which is important in a riding horse and a gorgeous willing temperament. The lady went away really pleased and I hadn't said anything untrue but had left out a lot of truths. She never intended to show or breed the mare so why add to the comments like "coarse, plain, no quality, cobby,etc" that others had told her. If she had asked me whether she was show or breeding quality I would have been honest and said "No" but she just wanted someone to say something nice about her Arab for a change and as she didn't intend to ever breed her why not point out the good things. She already knew she was not a quality Arab.
Please don't give up because of a few ill mannered people, just enjoy your horse and rise above it. I know the faults and virtues of my horses and if people comment on that which I know is wrong with them that is fine. I even put up my faol for a critique on the other site as there was a topic on conformation and they wanted actual horses to comment on and "criticise"! Most of the comments were very complimentary and they did pick up on the couple of things that could do with improvement so I was impressed as they got her right. I know she is a very nice foal and their summary was the same. I expected to get a few who slated her but didn't. However, if I had I would have known that they were just being nasty as you do with your colt.
Forget them, they have won if they upset you. Get him back in the showring and just enjoy him. If he is good enough he will win, if not you will both have had a good day out and you will know whether he shapes up a stallion material against the competition.
Just my thoughts.
Barbara
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cassy
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 10:15:34 AM
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Thanks Barbara, its not the winning really as i take him out as much for him, experience loading, new sights and sounds ect, i am not showing for myself as i hope he will make a great ridden horse and am sure he will. To be honest i can buy a horse every 2 shows i do and im not kidding thats what it costs me in lorry transport ect so i def wont show week in week out.
I am not so sure i even want to go back out in the ring now, i may just go to the local shows up the road and let him stand at ringside watching the others for show atmosphere and a short ride in wagon as it appears this game people can be v cruel, if i wasnt so ill id go back show jumping as i know where i stand in that game and was never criticised nor was my horses pulled down
I go in bupa the day before id set off for nationals so have asked another friend for help but if cant then im prep that i dont even go to watch
I dont care if ive no world champion stallion as my horses are treat equally and like family, im suppose to be on meetings galore today but ive canc the lot and off for a day on the yard in the fresh air to have a long hard think what i want to do, im really not so sure i want to be involved with this game anymore as its brought me nothing but big expense, heartache, and nothing but torn apart from people that dont even know me and this i do not deserve
well im nt well at the min and going back hosp soon for more surgery, i dont need to be more run down than i am so am quite prepared to call it a day in this game but if i do its not because of me its because of others
For those of you that dont know it cost me over 25000 on vet bills and coverings to get a dead foal every year from my other mare and im not kidding when i say what it cost, this colt was the final result before i did give up so im clearly v pleased but to get what im getting i really have now had enough:(
I am not oversure if i will finish my season now nationals/towerlands as my health is not good and all this runs me down, the last two shows would cost me 1600 for lorry then handler fees and expenses so i clearly dont do it for me, id rather go on hol somewhere hot than be ripped apart, anyways off my soapbox as ive meetings galore to re arrange then i give up work today |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 10:27:58 AM
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Barbara, you say a lot of truths there, sorry no pun really.
We all know that there are people who have lots of arabs and they consider them to part of a program or herd. Although they care for them very well, in some cases they do not refer to each individual arab as their friend or pet.
Most of the posters who come on this site seem to desperately love each horse and rightly so I think, refer to them as pets.
This is where the hurtfull comments come in and come in very hard.
We are not all not trying to breed the next world champion, ok in our heads we might be, we really know it aint going to happen! So, we are pleased with our lot. We all have different aims in breeding, and perhaps not an endless pot of money to do so.
So, what ever a young girl tries very hard to do, and breeds her first foal by a wonderful stallion at thatshe needs all the encouragement going.
This applies to all of us. Encouraging new people into the breed by praise, not by negative criticism, is the only way I can possibly think it would work.
We know there are very clever big successful breeders out there, but not all of us have a chance in life to have the oppertunities made open to us to do the same. So, by breeding maybe even one horse, we can sometimes make our dreams come true.
End of my sermon Angie and all others out there trying to dream, keep going please. We need you.
Jen, I think attitudes have changed, people are more inclined to speak their minds now, and we have the internet to voice our opinions on too. Good or bad, it has made the biggest impact on our world today. We have got to get on with it. Forgive and forget. |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 10:42:58 AM
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We were at the Midland in Hand on saturday and there were two Bahrani stallions there, the chesnut stallion was particularly nice Im sorry I dont know there names but they were shown by Jenny Lees.
CASSY.....I saw your lad on Sunday and I thought he was lovely.I was sad to read your post but can thoroughly understand how you feel.....I dont think I will subject my boys to it either, although one of them is the type thats currently in "fashion". We have just bought a part bred and will hopefully show her at "other" shows. We were at Malvern Sat & Sun and have to say (and we were not the only ones to say it) the atmosphere on Sat was so nice, relaxed, enjoyable, but it seemed to change on Sunday. Perhaps us amatuers are better off both financially and for our own self esteem, staying away.
Sorry about being off topic.
Mandy  |
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joycemelvin
Platinum Member
Scotland
1574 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 11:04:14 AM
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| Guys..don't let folk put you down..you can have success breeding even as an Amateur, look at my mare 'Amy' and filly 'Psynammon'. Psynammon is only the 3rd foal I've ever bred and only the 2nd pure bred..her mum was my 1st..don't give up and don't be put off by what others think, as long as you love your horse no matter the result who cares what anyone else says! |
jhm68@btinternet.com
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 11:30:01 AM
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| well looking at his photo Angie he looks damn fine to me! And Nikki your foals are all beautiful so how anyone can call them plain I do not know!! I guess when heads are described as plain they just mean not dished as my old vet said that to me about Shida but being very anti arab she meant it as a compliment. I was somewhat surprised at the time that my beautiful horse could be described as plain but now I know what she meant although I don't agree with the description as some of the most beautiful arabs do not have a significant dish. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we are never all going to like the same thing. I have seen horses with a dish that to me are plain ugly but also some that are very beautiful and the same with the straighter profile some are still beautiful some really are "plain". |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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Emancy
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 11:36:01 AM
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I totally understand why Angie (Cassy) is feeling this way. Mark and I have loaned her a two year old filly to breed from next year as she wanted something with a bit more 'ping' and Ellie (our filly) certainly has that - 3 lines to El Shaklan and movement of a Straight Russian - what more could you ask for! We have done this totally free of charge - we're not making a penny out of it, we just wanted to give Angie another chance to breed from a totally different bloodline.
So on Sunday not only did she get told to her face (yes, it wasn't rumours or mis-interpreted whispers) by someone she had considered to be an supporter, that her colt needed gelding and it would never get anywhere, but that the filly she had loaned (our filly) was no good either! I think this nastiness had stemmed from Angie turning down a filly that this person was trying to sell her and a covering from their stallion that Angie also turned down as she wants to use an relatively unknown stallion she's seen on the continent. By the way this persons' reaction was "well you'll need a mare from abroad then".
To top it all off she then had a couple of emails from someone else she considered a friend which were derogatory, although this issue has now been patched up.
I am gutted that Angie feels so low to want to give up on Arabians after such a sort time and that it is PEOPLE not the horses that she has had so many problems with in such a short space of time. Angie has so much enthusiam, that it's sad to see someone could be so cruel as to take that away from her.
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www.arabianstudfarms.com |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 12:03:58 PM
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God knows we need all the enthusiastic newcomers we can get! We should be bending over backwards to make them feel welcome, wanted and valued! They are after all the future, and have an important role to play, quite apart from possibly rejuvinating all us tired, miserable and jaded old fogeys!
Mike |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 1:06:43 PM
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I hope whoever made the comments is a top, internationally respected judge of Arabs, otherwise of what authority did they make such damning comments?
Whoever is it certainly has no manners and far less tact. Unless asked for a considered opinion I can't see why anyone would want to force their negative views on someone.
I don't believe that sort of person is representative of the Arab community at any level.
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Roseanne |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 1:43:49 PM
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The filly Angie has on loan from Claire and Mark is out of the mare they had on loan from me, Marih Loretta, who is full sister to Heather Brown's British national champion and Princess Muna saddle of honour winner Marih Lela. Thanks again, Claire and Mark, for taking such good care of Marih while she was with you.
Angie, please don't give up, people who are so rude really aren't worth bothering about, the need to learn some manners. If anyone asks my opinion of their horse I am happy to give it but there always negative and positive things to say about any horse. I have a stallion by Crusader and although I loved Crusader there were a few things about him that I would have changed, no horse is perfect. One of my best friends and I like totally different types of horses but we agree to disagree. She loaned my Spanish mare and I would never have sent her to the stallions she chose for her (she had her for two breeding seasons) but that was her choice and who is to say what she chose was any less suitable than what I would have chosen. It was her decision and I respect that. I wouldn't have chosen El Amin for Marih but boy was I wrong and I freely admit it.
Please stay with Arabs, they are the most lovely horses to own (do they own us?) and see those people for what they are; rude and arrogant, wish I knew who they were as I would probably tell them so!
Barbara
SueB, I am trying very, very hard to breed the next world champion, have I just done it with Surprise? Now that would be a surprise!!!!! |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 1:51:36 PM
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Some people just like to shock, some like to air their opinions and some are just downright cruel.
I've had nasty comments about Ffatal - he had a plain head Passion ( described as a Disney land horse - still haven't got a bloody clue what that meant !!!!! )Salaam - apparantly had never produced anything mmmmmm how many National & International Champions do they want !! And he was nasty and attacked people - huge ***** cat !, Amaretto was coarse mmmmmmm they'd never seen him and were talking pants - look at the results this year lovely lovely Amarettos winning, I'm sure Assad had a bashing I just didn't listen !! I heard people stating Athenaa just wasn't 'their type' - green eyes a glowing !!! Oh and Tenderness doesn't move - no sh*t !!!!
Ride above it all and Harvey Smith them. However there is nothing wrong with gelding. We have amazing show geldings now have happy lives. A huge amount of my positive publicity comes from my Ffffffff geldings |
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Sasha Melia
Gold Member
England
1333 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 1:56:47 PM
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I've only just caught up with this topic - Angie I know exactly how it feels, it breaks your heart! To love something so much and believe in it, to then have people slag it off is just horrible.
I experienced this first hand when I bought a beautiful young colt foal by Eternity Ibn Navarrone-D in 2004. There was a thread running on the 'other' site about his dad, Eternity, and as a proud and excited new 'mum' I posted some pics of my new baby onto the thread. My new baby was then torn apart by various anonymous 'Guests'. I was totally devastated, it honestly made me feel sick to the stomach. Anyway, the following year, as a yearling my colt went out and pretty much won champion or reserve at every show we took him to!
I felt like going back onto the 'other' site and posting about Mooky's successes, but I knew that these people would still find something nasty to say, and try to ruin my memories about the shows, so I didn't bother. At the end of the day I have had some wonderful comments about him from judges and breeders, and I believe in him which is what really matters. Even if you horse isn't a winner, if you love them and believe in, them then stuff what anyone else thinks!
Cultivating a very thick skin is one of the most important things when breeding and even more so for showing Arabians I'm afraid. It's a very sad fact unfortunately |
www.facebook.com/MukhtarIbnEternity
www.mukhtaribneternity.co.uk
     
****************************SILHOUETTE ARABIANS****************************
Home of Mukhtar Ibn Eternity (Eternity Ibn Navarrone-D x Monsoon by Djammal) AKA Mooky! |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 2:05:58 PM
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Is that Ffff***ing geldings, Delyth, because you wanted fillies? Only kidding. You have had some lovely colts gelded and if I don't find a really good home for my Amaretto colt as an entire he will be gelded and go as a riding horse but as he is very nice don't want to do it yet. However, he will only go where he is treated as a horse first and an entire second, not to be shut up all the time leading a miserable existence. Wish Vera wanted him, have his bits off in a heartbeat for him to go to a home like that!!!!
Sasha, there are some lovely posters on the other site but sadly they seem to get some really awful anonomous guests, guess that is why they wish to remian anonomyous. If you can't put your name to what you say then you shouldn't be saying it, why I always post in my name.
Love to Dennis, Vera.
Barbara |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 2:42:24 PM
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LOL Barbara, you never know ......... I may just have to have a look!!!! I am being very tempted with a certain red young man at the moment .
Ang, I feel qualified to answer you because I have also been on the recieveing end of, shall I be polite and say not so flattering comments about Dennis. What gets me is that these people really don't get it that we show them because we are proud of them, although its nice to win its also nice to get placed, but then its also nice just to compete, its also nice to take them home again, its also nice to gaze at them in the stable covered in poo stains. These people only care about one thing 'winning' and want to win at all costs and at the end of the day their horse will be for sale. Even if its 'not for sale' it would be for the right price. In thier eyes their stock is the best and thats that.
Dennis's vet bill is currently in excess of his 'worth' on paper but to me his worth is priceless. If I have to remorgage my house I will. Do you think they would spend the kind of money we have on vet bills when its cheaper to get rid and buy another. Temperament and friendship mean nothing, all that is important is that they have the best (in whose eyes though). So what if our horses are flawed - you name me one that isn't, but in our eyes they are still and always will be the best because we take the time to invite their friendship.
Ang, I bounced back again and showed Dennis again and guess what shock horror SHOWED HIM MYSELF and still got placed - more then once. You'll bounce back, at the end of the day YOU know you've got a very special boy and that really is all that matters.
Vera and Dennis |
    
Hampshire |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 3:20:23 PM
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To get back on track and to demonstrate a couple of points, namely that you don't get everything you want in one horse and to show that at least on occasion you can put type above everything else if you have the right mares "Borrowed" from the other site, below is an evaluation sketch of an influential sire done by the stud that used him. The "good" bits are shown with a heavy solid line, the "grotty" bits are denoted by a dotted line. Note that quantitively the "bad" far outweighs the "good" but qualitively for the mares that he was bred to the "good" was in itself sufficient for him to be worth breeding to
Mike |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 3:32:25 PM
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Angie - I've just caught up with this thread, and I know how you feel. Some nasty 'guest' on the other site made horrid (and totally untrue) comments about my boy as well. But if even the illustrious Ffatal Attraction and Delyth's other superstars can attract derogatory comments, it is obvious that these people are just jealous, sick, twisted, cowardly and very sad.
It still hurts, though - I was very shocked and upset, but a lot of nice people jumped to my horse's defence, and posted stuff about the championships he'd won and so on, and told me to take no notice of the nasty 'guest'. Just as they are doing here about your chap.
The motive in my case appeared to be revenge: I had looked at a lot of colts before choosing Tobago, and some people were clearly offended that I had not chosen their colts.
But there doesn't even have to be such an obvious motive: have a look at some of the vicious comments posted about big international champions on the other site - no matter how good a horse is, there will be people who will carp and criticize. In fact, the more successful the horse, the more carping and criticism he will attract. I don't know how your boy has done in the show ring, but maybe he has beaten somebody's foal, and they are angry about this?
Having mean things said to your face is even more horrible - but remember that there are all sorts of really stupid reasons why stupid people behave like this, and none of them have anything to do with the quality of your horses. Repeat: this has nothing to do with the quality of your horses.
I think your boy looks super - a lovely big, bold colt with lots of presence! He also looks as though he really enjoys showing, and you have had fun as well, so although I do understand how you feel, it would be a great shame to give up just because of a couple of envious people have been inexcusably rude about your very nice colt. They are SAD, as in pitiable.
PLEASE don't give up. PLEASE don't let the cowardly, jealous mud-slingers get you down. PLEASE remember that 90% of people in the Arab horse world are nice and kind and genuine - it's only a tiny minority who behave like this. If you want proof of this, PLEASE count the number of nice posts you've now received, compared to the one or two nasty comments.
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Emancy
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 3:53:32 PM
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Hi Barbara
it is because of you that we feel happy to loan Ellie out because loaning her mother, Marih from you was such a happy and successful process (it gave us the confidence to loan her even though we said we never would) - two gorgeous fillies was the result!!
I believe Ellie will make a wonderful mum as she is very maternal like Marih (she's adopted Angie's colt foal already apparently) and is to me a 'typical' brood mare type rather than show type. LOADS of heart space, girth, 'front', a shorter hip than you'd see in a show horse and plenty of belly roomn for a foal. |
www.arabianstudfarms.com |
Edited by - Emancy on 28 Jun 2006 3:53:58 PM |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 3:56:49 PM
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If I remember correctly, the Russians had Aswan (Rafaat) for 5 years before they used him so they must also have been nervous about his faults especially as the mares they had at the time looked so completely different from him. What a success he was as a sire .
I also feel that his grey sons and daughters were much more typey taking after him whereas his chestnut ones took after their dams but I would love to hear differently.
At the stud, we have the 28 year old chestnut Aswan daughter Pra (x Pamiatka by Arax) that follows this idea - she takes after her dam. She had some very good correct foals for us but with my new way of thinking (a bit late for Pra I know), maybe if I had bred her to a stallion with a lot of type or an SE, I might have got typier foals than I did .
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
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