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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 02:28:45 AM
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I don't think Aswan was by any means an obvious choice as a sire for Tersk (and as such it would make sense to wait and see what they had before using him) but he was certainly the right horse, in the right place at the right time. From such serendipity are legends created
Mike |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 08:43:51 AM
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Mike, I think there in lies an evolutionary change to the Russian horses when Aswan was presented to them . it certainly changed the face of their breeding Judith Forbis always advocated a SE stallion could inhance other types , but not the other way around ie; say a Russian stallion on a SE mare (this she told us at the Seminar) thus refering to SE's being used to inject their type. |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 10:24:11 AM
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i'm looking to add a bit more 'type', my bahraini/russian mare Zaqrah, and i want to use an se on her, or high percentage.
but i'm also looking into possibly leasing an se mare and using a bahraini stallion on her??
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pagey |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 3:16:16 PM
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Lynda,
Not necessarily true, Salon bred to the Nazeer daughter Foze worked very well to produce the mare Bint Foze who was exported to South Africa, and her son Sidi Ibn Bint Foze won every class he was entered in at the SA Nationals a few years back.Including winning inhand, ridden and formal driving all at the same show. Not bad for something that doesn't work!
Mike |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 3:49:02 PM
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Mike this was ,if you read my post only her recipe for SE's I knew I would get replies stating not true , this is her way to improve on other breeds using SE'e,.
As you know Carmargue was put to bint shantu Halima with excellent results as far as I am concerned which has resulted in WSA Charismma *** ( the only one to date in the UK )! so I dont advocate it as the only way to improve do I !! also not bad for something that didnt work ! |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 4:04:08 PM
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Interesting. I would have thought that if either the sire or the dam were SE, it should work the same way with 50% of the genes coming from each parent.
I don't have an SE so can't speak from experience but would really really like to have an SE mare or stallion but would have to refer to our very own AL turbanned guru on the bloodlines before venturing down such an unknown path.
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 4:40:13 PM
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this may be a bit novicey, but i've always been told for example, for the best anglo arab you use an arab stallion, on a tb mare.
so would work the same in this case?
it is something i've wanted to do for a while now, get really excited just thinking about it!
But i know very little about se's! And still don't know what books to buy to study them a little more. Hint, hint! |
pagey |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 4:50:31 PM
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What about Judith Forbis's book THE AUTHENTIC ARABIAN? Nikki, for starters?
 Hey guys take it up with Judith (she will be at malvern ) ! as it was her that advocated it not me ! I am just telling you what she said at the seminar. |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 11:35:57 PM
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Lynda,
I was rather distracted when I posted earlier, apologies if I appeared to be trying to bite your head off! Bint Foze is about as close an example I can think of, for a "reverse Aswan" breeding, the fact that there are several successful examples of SE mares being bred to non-SE sires supports the idea that what works one way around, should work equally well if done the other way around Not that the Pyramid Society is particularly happy with such thinking
Mike |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 11:55:30 PM
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If I remember correctly the Maxwell's did it both ways with equally good results. I think it is just that as the mare only has one foal a year (ignoring embryo transfer!) most people want their SE mares to go to a SE stallion although the Spanish/Egyptian cross is a very good one, again usually a SE stallion on a Spanish mare but no reason why the reverse shouldn't work.
Barbara |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 10:40:37 AM
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Yes but what a lovely pedigree, reads like a who's who in the arabian world like you say the pyramid society have their own ideas not (necessarily everybodies)of how Se 's can be used to strengthen type to another Arabian source, although you have a lovely stallion who would oblige those interested havent you? |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 11:05:23 AM
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so it could work either way then?
what other books are available about se's, preferbly not something about recent breeding.
and what lines throw a long neck, as in a good length of rein? |
pagey |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 11:54:48 AM
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There are only two SE lines that will reliably throw a long neck, namely Tuhotmos and Gharib and you would ideally want a direct male descendant Of the two I would personally go for the latter, despite Tuhotmos' more "glamourous" image
Mike |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 12:33:38 PM
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Thanks Mike, again being a bit thick here, what exactly do you mean by a direct male descendent? as in a grandsire?
Also why Gharib?, he's a black stallion, am i right?
Cheers Nikki |
pagey |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 1:26:13 PM
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In a direct male descendant, the desired horse appears in the very top line of the pedigree
As for Gharib, admittedly he wasn't what most would call a "pretty" horse, but he had quality, refinement, athletic ability and was a genuine sire of classy performance horses Not unlike Aswan at Tersk, he wasn't an obvious choice for Marbach in Germany but to type and beauty he added, "stretch", refinement and movement The fact that he was black, is a little unfortunate, but you can't have everthing can you?
Mike |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 2:03:05 PM
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great, thanks Mike, i get it, like the tail female line then.
I have seen a few pictures of him, and thought he was nice, less of the black, i like that colour!!
But wow, love the 1st grey and the chestnut, who are they Mike? |
pagey |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 2:28:44 PM
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The horses are Gharib grandsons, Hadidi(grey) and Farooq(chestnut) both by the late Norus (Gharib X Noha) whose full blood brother the late Nabya Ibn Gharib is the flea-bitten grey in the middle
A headshot of Norus as a youngster.
Mike |
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Gemma
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1802 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 2:31:28 PM
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| ooh, I'm liking Farooq..... |
 
Photo 2: West End Photography |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
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