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Skellos
New Member


3 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  10:06:17 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Skellos to your friends list Send Skellos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone, I am new to this forum so please be nice!

I have an Arab mare, Tilly Tamara, who is currently out on loan. The person who has her looks after her well but will never be able to afford to buy her and I own another horse who I keep on livery so would struggle to have her back. Where she is the loaner mainly hacks in the summer and most of the winter she has off, as she has no school.


My question is what do I do; give her away to her current loaner, have her back (somehow) and try and sell her, find a different loan home who would ride her more or any other alternative suggestion??

Thank you in advance for your suggestions
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
3290 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  10:33:28 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pinkvboots to your friends list Send pinkvboots a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello and welcome, can she just not stay on a permanent loan basis if everyone is happy?

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joanna_piana
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
3935 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  10:35:23 AM  Show Profile  Click to see joanna_piana's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add joanna_piana to your friends list Send joanna_piana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If she is well and happy with the current loaner why do you need to do anything? Or have they indicated they no longer want her? If they are happy with the current arrangement why not continue or if you are sure you don't ever want her back then offer her to them for a nominal amount. Think you need to speak to current loaner in the first instance. Not sure I understand the problem really, do you want her doing more, how old is she, what has she done previously?


Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
3935 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  10:35:58 AM  Show Profile  Click to see joanna_piana's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add joanna_piana to your friends list Send joanna_piana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and welcome!!!


Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  10:54:55 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello and , not sure what the problem is here, do you need the money ? if not dose it matter that she dose not ride the horse in the winter to me the main concern would be that she is happy and well looked after. Maybe a little more information on why you think there is a problem would help . Hope you enjoy the forum Skellos and of course we love photos
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Skellos
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  11:11:46 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Skellos to your friends list Send Skellos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone :) has taken me a few mins to work out how to reply!!

The original agreement was lwvtb and a price etc was agreed, the loaner looks after her really well and loves her, currently she can still afford to keep her just not buy. I guess I was worried that Tilly is now 9 and has not done a great deal apart from hack but as you have said at least she is well looked after and happy. The money would obviously be nice but not essential. Thinking I could put together a new agreement for permanent loan with the agreement that she must give her back to me in the event she can't afford to keep her?

Also I would love to have her back but I know I can't afford it and wouldn't have time as have another horse and a full time job!

Thanks again for making me welcome
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AnnaMaisy25
Gold Member


England
794 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  11:22:24 AM  Show Profile  Click to see AnnaMaisy25's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add AnnaMaisy25 to your friends list Send AnnaMaisy25 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would definitiely make a written agreement with the part about you having her back should the loan person not want/can't keep her anymore!
A girl on my yard had a horrible time of it last year, when the people loaning her little show pony for the summer refused to return him and had him up for sale!
She had a written agreement, but had done it herself, and hadn't had someone check it over for her, and there was a pesky little loop hole hidden there.
She got him back, but they had already sold his tack and rugs!!
She will never loan him again, which is a shame as she is 5ft9 and he is 13.1hh. A sweetheart, but they look a little odd lol.

Obviously, I'm not saying that will happen to you! You and this person obviously have an understanding already... That's just my opinion. I wouldn't loan either of mine out without having a contract drawn up by a solicitor etc...
I hope it works out for you!!


Anna x


Splash&Freya.
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glo
Gold Member


England
1297 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  11:58:48 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add glo to your friends list Send glo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem you have is that you may end up getting your mare back when she's 25!!! I know a lady that did this, loaned a horse for 19 years then phoned up the owner and told them to pick the horse up by the weekend.

I had a dressage horse out on lone to a equestrian centre, they had had him for about 4 years and he was loved by all, I phoned them and asked if they would be happy to buy him for a nominal price and they brought him, I would have loved to have him back but he could not cope with the hill work around here, so it worked out well for all.

It sounds like your mare is a lovely hack and genuine to ride and I know from what you have said that the lady loves her, but I think I would be firm and ask if she is ever going to buy the mare as you have moved on and would like to see her in a new home, see what the lady says and if she said that she would never buy her I would have her back and I am sure that as a good hack you will have no problem selling her on.


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primrosepye
Silver Member


433 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  12:26:18 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add primrosepye to your friends list Send primrosepye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forum

This is obviously quite a big decision for you and sometimes asking other peoples opinions can really help. Its a big wide world out there after all!

I see that you have suggested giving your horse away. Please dont do this! The horse has a value and once you do this, there is nothing stopping the new owner selling it on straight away - this would no doubt leave you feeling very angry, but powerless.

If you want to sell the horse but she doesnt have a lump sum, could she pay in monthly installments - this works for some people, but not all...

You dont mention how long your horse has been out on loan? If it is established for some time and the horse is happy, there is quite a lot of strength in leaving as is. However, you could maybe consider putting a time limit on the 'buy' option if you definately want to sell, so the loanee is aware that the 'loan' option is not for ever?

Just my ramblings - hope you find a solution that you are happy with.

Prim
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sab2
Platinum Member


8467 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  1:34:17 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sab2 to your friends list Send sab2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When you let her have the horse lwvtb did you agree a time limit in which she had to pay the money, your mare at 9 is still young and has a value and i am sure there would be people who would buy her, if you need the money why don,t you have a quiet word with the lady who has her on loan and explain to her your situation, like primrosepye has said why not suggest to her for payments. The only problem i see with loaning then taking back is that this lady may hand her back when there is a health problem or the mare is too old, so long as you don,t mine her doing this then ok, its a hard decision as you want to do whats right for your mare but you also must think about yourself too. Whatever you decide please make sure you get it in writing and get a witness or two to sign , best of luck .
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Faracat
Silver Member

270 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  2:12:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Faracat to your friends list Send Faracat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone loaning out their horse should read the advice on this website.

http://www.missinghorsesonloan.co.uk/

Sadly the NED is no more.

Before you loan your horse to a complete stranger, or even someone you thought you knew really well, there are a few sensible precautions you should take. These can ensure that everything is clear and understood between the parties involved and if something does go wrong the details are in place to recover the situation. In cases where equines are loaned on a ‘handshake’ agreement it can sometimes become almost impossible to even prove that the horse is yours. So, if you do not intend to give your horse away to never be seen again please consider the following.


Identify the horse.

All horses should have a passport to confirm their identity. The problem here is that you are required to give the passport to the loanee with the animal. Make sure that anyone can positively identify the horse by having it freeze branded. A microchip is a good confirmation but is not visible and can be difficult to check. Also, a passport does not prove ownership, only whether the animal is fit for human consumption. Freeze brand companies will issue you with an owners pack and this can be taken as proof the horse is yours. Keep these documents yourself somewhere safe. It helps greatly if you have somegood, clear current photographs of your horse, winter and summer, digitally stored if possible.

Keep a copy of the passport.

You must supply the original copy of the passport with the horse so it can be travelled. The passport should also be available for inspection from the keeper so handing it over is usually unavoidable. This does not prevent you from keeping a photocopy so you always have the information to hand.

Update NED.

If you have loaned your horse then update the passport record on the National Equine Database to show this, visit www.nedonline.co.uk. Make sure you have Associated yourself with the horse to ‘lock’ the passport record to you. Then add a comment in the Notes section of the User Entered area. This will allow anyone checking the passport, perhaps before they are about buy your horse, to see that it is out on loan and not for sale. ‘Currently on loan, not to be bought or sold’ is enough detail. Sadly loaned equines can too easily be sold by unscrupulous people and some have even been lost to the meat trade.

Use a loan agreement.

You really must have a formal, written loan agreement in place before you hand over your horse. There is a BHS version at www.bhs.org.uk in the Welfare section or a Horse Trust copy at www.horsetrust.org.uk in the Advice section. Make sure it is fully completed and that you each keep a copy. If you can, have the agreement countersigned by a professional person such as a doctor, lawyer, bank officer or company director rather than a close friend or family member. This will make it more impartial and independent in any dispute. Some solicitors also specialise in equine law and offer help with drafting loan documents.


Due to cases collapsing when the loan agreement is broken make sure it is drawn up by a solicitor, or countersigned by a solicitor.

Keep records.
Make sure you can always contact the person you loaned the horse to. Keep a record of their name, home address and all telephone numbers. Note where they are going to keep the horse and if this is a livery yard then write down the yard owners details as well. Visit the yard/home before the horse leaves you both to inspect the premises and to confirm what you have been told really exists. When the horse is collected record the registration numbers of all the vehicles involved, you can even take some photographs at the time so there is no doubt. A ‘souvenir’ photo of the loanee holding your horse may prove invaluable if it all goes horribly wrong in the future.

We all have trust that loans are the best solution at the time and the vast majority go well with no problems. However, if you do find yourself in a position where your best friend has been moved, sold or will not be returned to you the effort of the preparation described above may make the difference between proof of ownership and a long drawn out dispute.

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Faracat
Silver Member

270 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  2:12:58 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Faracat to your friends list Send Faracat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry, double post.


Edited by - Faracat on 11 Apr 2013 2:15:08 PM
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gossy
Platinum Member

England
3639 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  2:42:05 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gossy to your friends list Send gossy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hello and welcome, is there a reason that you wish your horse to be ridden more regularly, are they competing for instance, I am a happy hacker and fair weather rider, we ride ours most of the summer and give them the winter off,(occasional ride in winter if weather ok) we have very happy sane horses. having a good loanee is better than a bad one!! if you cant have the horse back and the loan works why try to alter it?

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Judith S
Platinum Member


Wales
15686 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  3:28:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Judith S's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Judith S to your friends list Send Judith S a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One other thing to consider if you decide to take payment by instalments, once the first payment has been made the purchaser has more rights to the horse than the seller as that is the point of sale - just be careful.

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Skellos
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  6:10:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Skellos to your friends list Send Skellos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone, really appreciate the replies and has bought up things I hadn't thought of.

Anymore thoughts greatly appreciated
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Pasch
Platinum Member


2277 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  9:00:13 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pasch to your friends list Send Pasch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi and welcome!
I agree with what Gossy said.These days it's not easy to sell any horse and it seems like your loanee loves your mare and takes good care of her,which is also not so common!I am sure the mare doesn't mind being a happy hack,too
I would keep things as they are.You could get some money by taking her back and selling her but you wouldn't know in which hands she would go.
In my country they say you don't change a winning team
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