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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 11:30:18 AM
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Anna please take your time and do not rush into anything because you feel sorry for him. It really is not the right reason to buy a horse especially as you have a young baby. I guess you have to ask yourself what you want him for, if you really really like him (and I don't think your that smitten) you would have to spend a lot of time building up trust with him, lots of in hand work, walks etc.... do you realistically have the time for that. It does sound to me that he has been backed very quickly without going through 'the process' which has made him very stressed.
There are lots of very nice Arabs for sale at the moment.....
Think very long and carefully, whatever you decide good luck.
Alison
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 7:18:09 PM
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anna you know my views,  and you know i would come if i wasnt 3 hours drive away, my 2 friends in sussex may be able to help i could give you their numbers, we all worked at millfield together and have had had arabs all their lives and still has them now. i would trust them with my life!! also think Joanna Piano JO would be a most helpful person to take along  |
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Edited by - gossy on 17 Apr 2012 7:21:31 PM |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 7:32:53 PM
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| Thanks Paula, Jo and I are going to see him! Someone suggested that his name is similar to Ak El Sennari.... |
Edited by - annas on 17 Apr 2012 9:13:36 PM |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 8:13:12 PM
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I am so pleased Jo is going with you for a second look  |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 9:15:30 PM
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| I'm so relieved to have her coming too! Thanks to everyone for the support. |
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brychens mum
Bronze Member
99 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 9:32:41 PM
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| Please do not feel pressurised to 'rescue' this horse. There are posters clearly egging you on to buy. Ask yourself, will they be living with the horse? If they are so keen why are thay not buying him? I came close to going to see the horse Alison bought, I didn't as I knew I would buy him for all the wrong reasons, and as main wage earner and parent to a 7 year old child head has to rule heart. |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 9:53:35 PM
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| Hi - it's Mrs Captain Sensible here- aka "let's go and get him NOW"! having read the whole thread and the ones Callisto kindly posted to remind me of the roller coaster that was getting Aragon over from NI and his settling in process, AND reflecting on the other horses/ponies that I have rescued (must be about 8 Arabs, 2 Anglo's, 1 TB and 2 Welshies over the last 20 or so years) it is not the money (although that doesn't bear thinking about and the reason I'm still in full time work at 67) it's the emotional exhaustion with the ones who act as if they want to kill either you or themselves and anyone else around at the time, and take years of patient quiet firm consistent management in the face of lots of people who think they know "everything there is to know about horses" telling you that you are mad/dangerous and every other sort of fool. Aragon has been very easy as he was and is a very kind and brave person from the moment he staggered down the box ramp. He is now just fabulous and the horse everyone else wants to own! We've done dressage comps and jumping comps and a 25 mile pleasure ride in hail rain and snow and he hasnt put a foot wrong in any way whatever. However, Ryazan (RIP) was VERY difficult throughout his whole time with me (12 years) although we had a strong bond and I loved him unreservedly - he could be a real trial at times! So - it sounds as if SS is a "take it very quietly and have very low expectations and a long time plan" job. Safety for you and your baby are paramount though. I'm old and have no dependents other than animals who are all set up with trust funds and provided for if I get kicked in the head or fall off the m/cycle; it doesn't really matter if I get wiped out - BUT it does for you, so - BE CAREFUL! (End of Lecture by Mrs Captain Sensible!!) |
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arabesque
Silver Member
339 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 10:41:22 PM
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I'm glad you saw him, and it's great you're going back for a 2nd viewing, along with a second opinion. He does sound from your description that the issues he has are something that can be worked with, but it really depends on your instincts about whether you could work through them with him, but also whether you really 'know' that this is the horse you want to live with long term!There has to be a connection between you.
Yes, there are people, like myself, egging you on but it's tongue in cheek - at the end of the day if you make a mistake buying him it will be another bad experience for him too!If you decide he's not for you nobody should criticise you for being realistic.
Good luck with the viewing (again!lol), and hopefully it will work out for the best for both of you |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 08:36:32 AM
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Thank you for your thoughts and concern. I am all too familiar with the feeling of 'this horse is trying to kill me, himself and anything around him', that Zooscat describes, your description made me laugh. My Arab was exactly this, for about 18 months. I had only once (out of over 100 Arabs that I rode and worked with) met one as dangerous as him. My only concern after seeing the slightly pushy 18 month old colt was, I have to get him out of here. On getting him home we had to construct a barrier around his stable to stop him getting you over the door. Getting in and out of his stable was a military procedure with 2 people, one controlling the door, the other negotiating a way in, with a frantic Arab trying to climb over the top of you whilst biting, striking out and squashing you against the door. Getting behind him was suicidal. Seriously it was the stuff of nightmares. Once in it became even more dangerous. Getting a head collar on without getting bitten/smashed around the head or squashed was virtually impossible. Out of the stable he was lethal, totally unhandled with still no regard for personal space. He would charge through you in a blind panic, lunging at you with his teeth generally on two legs, if he managed to get his shoulder past you he would banana his body around towards you and double barrel directly at you. In the field we discovered he was petrified of other horses and ran straight through post and rail fencing. He couldn't understand the other horses body language and would charge at them, harass, follow them too close, approach when they were telling h clearly to stay away, consequently he was kicked, bitten and everyone didn't like him. I had him gelded within 48 hours of arrival. He was sedated when I picked him up and must have been when I viewed him. It was like unleashing a monster when we arrived home.
Picking out feet was impossible for a week, after that just very hair raising.
But after four years I could lead him out to the field with another horse, happily spend time in the stable with him and he was hacking out and loving life. He understood people and horses finally. He is now much loved and doing endurance with a local lady. Unfortunately he never gave me the feeling under saddle that I had wanted, not the comfy Arab feeling I missed so much though he felt safe and Never put a foot wrong under saddle.
So, just reading that back, this is why I am hesitant. This horse is not in any way as severe, but has different triggers, a more resigned feeling rather than all out panic then defiance.
I really appreciate everyone's concern and will not take him on unless Jo and I decide it is practical for me to do so.
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Edited by - annas on 18 Apr 2012 12:43:53 PM |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 08:52:46 AM
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| Blimey Anna fair play to you for carrying on. I think you deserve something you can enjoy and have some fun with this time. Lets hope he can be that pony but if not someone else will come along for him. Looking forward to meeting him and you on Saturday I will try and be the voice of reason! |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 09:07:22 AM
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Anna you know you can rely on me to give you my honest opinion, it is only you that can decide, but you do have a couple of factors in your favour, you know arabs and you have ridden/worked with lots of them, you have had the experience of a difficult one before, when my daughter who was then what 11 rode him he was an angel!!!! so pat on the back for all that work you did with him, horses respond differently to people and the way they do things, ive known of horses unhandleable by previous owners but completely turned around by others. also you need a companion for Jasper.
i know you will do whats best for you and you put this on here for all peoples opinions including all of us saying to have him.
your a big girl and at the end of the day it will be your decision alone which will be the right one for you, and your being sensible by taking Jo, good luck and let me know how it goes. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 10:12:32 AM
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As another one who could be described as 'egging you on', I'd like to repeat my earlier post - that I don't want you to feel pressured. Only you will know whether you want to spend years with this horse. From your description of your colt ( ) you have the experience and knowledge to cope with a few difficulties, but obviously you don't want to be putting yourself at unnecessary risk. However I would like to offer my support if you do make the decision to go ahead - I wouldn't want you to back out and then regret it. I live 11 miles from you so quite local.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 11:20:33 AM
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I'm another who would say be very careful!
When I bought my boy he showed very similar issues and I was convinced that with time and patient, kind, consistent handling he would come good.
Sadly i don't have a success story but a horse still with significant physical and mental issues (yes, I have consulted many professionals, both veterinary and behavioural). He also passed a 5* vetting when I bought him so I now believe these not to be worth the paper they're written on.
I know I've been unlucky and there are plenty of people on here who have had the opposite experience.
It's not the money my boy has cost me (which is a HUGE amount) it's how emotionally draining it is to put everything you have into a much loved horse and still not be able to 'fix' him. I can't express in words how soul destroying this is.
When we take on these horses it's a lottery, you need to be prepared to take that chance. |
Heléna
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 11:31:01 AM
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| I'm blown away by the lovely comments. Callisto a big Thank you for the offer of support, it's really reassuring to know that there is knowledgable support at hand. |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 11:34:49 AM
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| Helena, I'm so sorry, I appreciate that there isn't always a happy ending. |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2012 : 09:11:26 AM
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He**s Bells, Annas - I can see why you're having A Sensible Think about the possible ownership of SS!! The story of your experiences of the colt who was sedated would have reduced me to taking up tiddlywinks instead! Fair play, as we say down 'ere,for keeping going and turning him around. Ratty Ry (RIP) was a perfect person in comparison!
You are obviously highly skilled and experienced in the understanding and sensible management of Arabians of all sorts and temperaments; you also have self knowledge, which is another major strength.  Go with your gut feelings and good luck! |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2012 : 11:51:16 PM
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THANK YOU Zooscat... that is really nice to hear, I must learn to listen to my gut more, put my foot down with outside 'interference' and do what I would have done 20 years ago without wondering constantly if I should do it another way!
I still have a dent in my forehead that will never go away as a reminder of him.
I am also still wary of horses coming over to see me at speed in the field as he would play 'chicken' and would gladly flatten me.
You absolutely did not stand still in this situation and leaving it too late meant you both leaping from one side to the other with me trying to avoid contact. A double barrel as he shot past was the norm and I have 'James Bond' style rolled under many a post and rail fence. Actually more Dawn French. Huge golf umbrellas opened suddenly towards him worked well, but they weren't always to hand..
I saw a while ago on another forum a sibling showing the same behavior in a milder form (so far). So unnecessary and so sad. Never again would I go through that.
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Edited by - annas on 19 Apr 2012 11:53:05 PM |
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avanti
Platinum Member
England
2222 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 06:25:43 AM
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Anna, I think you deserve a lovely loving uncomplicated horse this time
Mandy x |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 07:47:22 AM
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Annas,
I've just caught up on this thread and it sounds to me as though you're perfectly qualified to take on this little horse - it sounds as though you understand him already and have previous experience "in spades".
I also know that you wouldn't get him if you knew you couldn't be the long-term environment and home he needs and deserves.
Especially for his sake I hope you feel you could be his new mummy but would understand if you couldn't.
Unfortunately I am a bit too far away to come and help/hinder. Sorry, this reads as rather pressurising but it's not meant to be
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 1:53:35 PM
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Sorry haven't been on here for ages but just wanted to say best of luck today, Anna.
Look forward to hearing how it goes.
Lauren x |
      
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 2:38:34 PM
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| Yes best of luck from me as well, he does look rather special. |
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annas
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 5:50:00 PM
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Thanks ladies, he is rather lovely. On second viewing he is really very sweet. He was much more relaxed today and I was able to bring him in from the field, groom and lunge him. He was also ridden by a much 'quieter' man and was far more relaxed about mounting...
Lunging was completely straightforward and as you would expect from any youngster. Slightly stiff on right rein so I would definitely like a visit from an equine osteo or similar.
But the wierdest thing about all of this is that last night I managed to speak to the previous owner, she explained his time with her and I was very suprised at what I heard. I now know his history from a two yr old and on the whole it was relatively 'normal'. He had been backed and 'trained' at a Western training Centre at 3. Apparantly he would bolt when mounted so to stop this they would turn him tightly in circles, the man hauling his head around to his stirrup and the girl hopping on. I remarked that there was a natural horseman near me, I questioned his style, and she asked me his name. It was the very same man. The girl that rode him is a young friend of mine who is still at school and housesits for me..... The owner had sent the horse from Herts to a village about 15 mins from me in Sussex.
So a few years ago, I remember like it was yesterday, I had walked in to the tack room and heard a conversation between liveries and this trainer, I caught the gist and had to butt in as he described how an arab he had in had bolted and dropped him....and how he wanted my young friend to ride him, the man has to be at least 17 stone, the horse was 3. THIS IS THE SAME HORSE!!!! I let it be known exactly what I thought and was told by him that 'arabs are weight carriers'.....
So I have spoken to my friend who rode him whilst in training and she confirmed all that I suspected. He is just a young, good natured arab who has had a really rough time with humans who don't, can't or won't understand him. She adored him. Really reassuring stuff and she said she always hoped that someone like me would have him. I can't believe it. Is this fate??!!
So if I do.....can anyone recommend a horse transporter from Herts (Shenley) to East Sussex?
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Edited by - annas on 21 Apr 2012 5:53:31 PM |
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Mystery no longer! Name suggestions anyone?!
