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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 6:48:12 PM
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Why should we care what the Welsh do? We're breeding Arabs 
Keren |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:05:42 PM
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The poodle analogy is actually a very telling one!
The poodle *used* to be a practical, hard-working hunting dog. It's believed that Prince Rupert's dog Boy, who was so feared by the Parliamentarians during the Civil War was a poodle. Yet the breed has become so denigrated by breeders who breed only for looks without caring about functionality that the word has become a synonym for anything that has no real use.
I for one will fight to my last breath to stop the Arabian breed becoming the equine equivalent of the poodle, And though this subject may seem trivial to some, the whole 'poodleisation' of the Arabian breed is the most important issue facing the Arabian horse today - so this thread is actually symptomatic of a massive divide between those who value the Arabian as it is - and those who wish to make it something that it is was never intended to be.
There is a strong possibility that my young mare may be being bred to one of Jenny Lee's Bahreini horses this year. I am pleased and thrilled that my loaner has so much foresight. The 'head hunters' and poodle fans in the bree would no doubt dismiss these horses with a snort of disgust, as they are not Barbie-horse-headed - but like it or not, they are the REAL Arabian horse, direct from the desert, and as such as what responsible breeders should be looking to s an example - horses that don't just excel in endurance but can also show-jump and also have the genuine 'tent temperament'. And not a dish in sight!
Keren |
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misterei
Silver Member
United Kingdom
455 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:06:37 PM
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have to say, I have had a beard for the last 42 years and anybody who wants me clean shaved better watch out for my hooves. I don't understand why we do things as 'fashion', look at my dress sense (well jeans and tee-shirt actually), you will soon see I was left behind along time ago.
And without wishing to upset anybody please can we stop calling it a Bridle Path, ridden horses don't need clipping to wear a bridle, look at last years HOYS winners, at least two of them were not clipped and they didn't trip up their mane, they didn't buck, not a thing. And the little halter they wear when they go in-hand could quite easily fit through the mane without too much of a problem.
I find it sad that humans think they know better than nature. The mane and tail on an Arab, not only marks them out as Arabs, but if they get to live out in the winter, the mane offers protection from the wet and cold. Try putting your hand under one when you are cold in the winter and feel the heat.
I have only bought horses with full manes and I wasn't fooled for a minute in to buying a cob, I think I have quite a nice collection for little hairy ones.
When I have seen my girls clipped they have looked smart but it seems so wrong. Don't do it anymore. Only benefit I see is there are fewer tangles to sort out. BTW not sure of my gene pool, I occasionally have a trim.
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Here they are
Emira......Mazie...Fharida.....Shahi......Mazie.....Saffee..Malika...Emira
More at www.purespiritarabians.com |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:25:52 PM
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WOW must be foaling time again.....seriously are there not enough serious issues that need dealing with rather than predictably at this time each year the great clip debate must begin!! It's really quite simple if you don't like it don't do it!  If you look back to everytime this debate begins it's always the same names against and the same for. If it was acctually a welfare issue fair enough but it isn't it just goes on and on BORING NOW (just as it was last year and the year before and suprisingly the year before that too!!
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claire fowler |
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amy_southworth
Silver Member
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:44:06 PM
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| I think it is a good idea that this topic is brought up yearly because of the new members to Arabianlines and also new Arabian horse owners. They can then make up their own minds. |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:44:42 PM
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Very well said Amy though i fear you may as well talk to a wall!
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claire fowler |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 7:46:03 PM
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For God sake it's only a haircut - I use clippers on my kids and my horses, and believe me the horses are easier as they need no restraint! I'm sure it's less stressful than some heavy person climbing on their back, or a piece of metal in their mouth, all of which we do.
However.... I do think that the clip used on foals with the upward point looks really daft.... not cruel just daft.....
To each their own...... it's only fashion, and I think the fashion now is to have the "point" on the forehead going down.... much prefer that.
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amy_southworth
Silver Member
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 8:07:46 PM
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Yep, I'm sure you are 100% right Claire... LOL
It does bare many similarities to this |
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams" |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 11:24:31 PM
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| Hi Amy, yes thats right absoluteley no experience of clipping, trimming or shaving(i bred her). I wouldnt dream of clipping a foal, the foal coat offers alot of protection and i would'nt dream of removing it unnaturally except in the case of something like clipping for an area to be operated on. But i must say that having had a warmblood at the grand age of 13 arrive on friday that i turned the clippers on to trim the underside of his neck and belly and nearly jumped out of his skin, bad experience or inexperience we will never know. |
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Nashiba
Bronze Member
235 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2012 : 08:50:09 AM
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I think the words above from the "nouveaux Arab" generation "....breeders for the in-hand show ring " says it all.
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2012 : 1:06:32 PM
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Well I have my first purebred foal due 23rd of April and if I see fit I "will" clip, then again if I decide not to that's my prerogative, I don't see how anybody can tell me I should or shouldn't as it certainly is "not" a welfare issue. And as these foals tend to have A1 husbandry the argument for protection is no longer valid. Each to their own I say and why, oh why, do people want to cause an argument over it? as has been said if you don't like it don't do it or look at it, it's your choice. The point that it desensitises youngsters to noise, leads around the place is very valid and I believe the more that is done to create a calm horse for the future the better  And as for comparing them to Poodles that is ridiculous, I have a Standard boy whom I clip myself (lamb trim) I personally don't like the pom poms and lion clips which is "why" I don't do it. Clipping a Poodle does them no harm either, yes people tend to think all Poodles are covered in bows and pom poms but that's where their owners educate people, and believe me the amount of people who think they only come in white or are very girlie dogs is unbelievable  anyway as I said live and let live, I think the foals are equally as Stunning with or without the clip and if you can see a good head and neck you should be able to do so with or without the clip |
George xxx
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suyents
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1651 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 4:26:42 PM
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i apologise profusely to everyone that has found this thread a bore, particularly since i did not start it as a welfare thread...As many have said, there are far worse welfare issues in the Arabian world...and how wonderful is that?!
it was merely a satire on where the Arab world is heading (ha ha, pun not intended), when even at a few days old foals are used to emphasise the success of a breeder's genetic selection for extreme heads and necks...
as for the Nouveau Arabische (again, a satire on Nouveau Riche), if the majority are indeed breeding mainly for the "in-hand show ring", then many of the Arab breed's exceptional qualities will be irrelevant, and indeed, breeding will just be a "Vanity of vanities, All is Vanity". (Ecclesiastes 1:2 ) |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 5:40:18 PM
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I do agree with you Suyents, and in the search for the extreme many other things get overlooked.
Not every horse was clipped at the world champs last year, so it isn't a necessity to produce a horse at that level, but so long as it's not forced upon the foal in a heavy handed way, it's OK.
Personally, I think a foal with a clipped face looks daft, I feel the same way about a baby with earrings, many other people like these things, their choice.
I have my horses half hogged and can't bear hairy fetlocks - my choice. As long as no-one is hurt, to each their own.
Your post isn't boring, or it wouldn't have got a response! |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 9:15:39 PM
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| I did use the word boring as every year as soon as foal photos start to arrive the same topic arrives on here, dress it up with posh language, blame the in hand showing do what you will but at the end of the day to keep dragging the subject up year after year is boring! some foals i clip some i don't but thats my choice i don't hurt them or use force to get the job done. I don't feel the need to come on here and make unnecessary jibes about some of the things i see that i think look silly or pointless because they cause no harm to the horse.....but then i do have a life! |
claire fowler |
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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 9:24:14 PM
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| What a great topic! Certainly not boring for me, as a newbie I've found it really interesting reading the varied opinions. I personally lean more in favour of the au natural state, my horse has never been clipped as she doesn't do enough work in the winter to warrant it. As I'm not into showing and couldn't care less about a "typey" head a clipped foal would not appeal to me. Out of interest is it only Arab foals that are clipped like this? |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 10:57:19 PM
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| Brack369 no they "do" clip the Welsh section A's like this and have done for some time, not sure about the B's but have seen some C foals clipped! |
George xxx
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Nashiba
Bronze Member
235 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 06:52:15 AM
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| Wasn't aware the A's and B's were clipped and I have both.Although they are both lead rein ponies and I would tidy up around the jaw with scissors for any "beards" etc and do a bib clip for riding/working purposes only as they grow such thick coats even with rugs on. |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 11:41:39 AM
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It is not "common practice" to clip Welsh breeds - although some do!
WPCS ruling is:
6.7.2. Animals, 3 years old and under including foals must not be body clipped for
showing purposes. Long hair under the jawline and those protruding from the
ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The whiskers
around the muzzle may be trimmed.
6.7.3. Animals 4 years old or over, which have been clipped for winter activities can be
shown. Fresh clipping for spring shows is not permissible. Judges must take special
note of this. Legs must not be clipped. Long hair under the jawline and those
protruding from the ears may be trimmed off leaving as natural a line as possible. The
whiskers around the muzzle may be trimmed. |
www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 12:11:42 PM
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| Just re read my comments and I must admit that the Welsh section A's that I see clipped are for the sale ring....just go to Brecon horse sale in Sept and every one of them will be clipped as well as Builth sale!! |
George xxx
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:19:56 PM
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Just curious; about the position of it being a sort of handling/training issue to clip a foal. Why would you introduce clipping by clipping the face, even just a V shape, would it not be more logical and safer to start with clipping the body? And, where the foal could wear a rug if the weather turned. Then later introduce face clipping if its considered necessary. If the clipping of foals is about good horsemanship and training, rather than following a rather un-natural beauty look and the spineless 'follow my leader' trend, why the face?
It could well be a lack of understanding (and I include myself in the this) why the face is clipped in this way. If makes the Arab Show World something for ridicule in the greater Equestrian world. It really is thought that the face clipping (and other practices) an attempt at false beautification and only accentuates the view of Arab Show Horse World as silly simpering girly and false.
I spose those who do the face clipping have heard the joke (from the more 'rugged' parts of the equestrian world) about the Arab Show people, the Arab Show Horse, and the false eyelashes?
So, if its about training and handling, why the face, and only the face? |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:42:24 PM
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"...I spose those who do the face clipping have heard the joke (from the more 'rugged' parts of the equestrian world) about the Arab Show people, the Arab Show Horse, and the false eyelashes?..." Pop
I don't do the face clipping, but I don't know the joke - please tell me! (you can pm me if you think it would offend sensibilities )
It's not about training/handling, it's about people doing what they think enhances the look of their Arab, although it does get the horse used to having it done to them from an early age, which is handy if they are going to have their heads clipped regularly I suppose. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 2:46:27 PM
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yes, the joke would offend, there are a number which would offend.
So, its not about handling and training etc, its about flying in the face of the natural beauty of the horse and some strange idea that the face clip enhances the look of the Arab horse????
Noooooo, you are jesting with me??????? |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 7:12:54 PM
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I'm glad then that my horses have nice heads au naturel, and don't need "enhancing".
Shaving my boys in the summer would be pointless anyway - they have hardly any hair on their faces. Oh golly gosh - is that what people are trying to imitate by shaving, Well, goodness me, who'd a thought it? ;)
(For the newbies - very fine (to the point of being invisible) facial hair in summer is one of the sought-after qualities of the Arabian horse. People whose horses are not so blessed by nature have to resort to getting the clippers out)
Please pass the false eyelash joke on to me, I'd love to hear it!
Keren |
Edited by - MinHe on 11 Apr 2012 7:25:41 PM |
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Genetics
