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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 7:23:40 PM
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Sorry - no .......
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Edited by - basbob on 16 Oct 2012 7:29:18 PM |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 7:31:17 PM
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That bed has to be 3 foot high - takes a long time. And that mare??????
Sorry but I know people who've suffered - we've been in a bad financial place ourselves - but, sorry, no..... I don't buy this |
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Dark Angel
Silver Member
England
285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 7:49:31 PM
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Some people on here seem to have way too much time on their hands. I wonder if these same people have the same opinions on child cruelty/murder too. Who cares what the reasons behind their actions (or lack of them)were. The end result is the same - death. For heaven's sake get your heads out of the clouds and see reality for what it is. If this woman and her husband are so lacking in basic human judgement they should have been held under the mental health act as they must also be a danger to themselves. As this did not happen we have to presume the judge saw through the bullcrap and saw them for what they really were. No amount of over-analysing will bring these beautiful horses back.  |
Hereford |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:03:12 PM
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Am curious - does anyone here actually know the Skippers?
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caz
New Member
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:08:18 PM
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Several years back I suffered with severe mental illness. I lost my job and really struggled with even the most basic tasks such as looking after myself. But not for one minute, despite being in the depths of utter despair, did I neglect the needs of my horse (I had my gelding at the time).
When I knew I was going to struggle with his care he was placed on full livery so that I knew his needs were met even if I couldn't get out of bed.
2 years ago it almost happened again, although not to the same extent. This time I managed to keep my mare on DIY livery and although I was struggling with life I still went down there every single day.
I have also mucked out several horses when I had flu with a temperature of over 39degrees and feeling like utter cr*p, or the time my back was in spasm and it took me nearly an hour to muck out one stable but you carry on because they can't do it for themselves!
It's very noble to try to look at how someone can fall so far, but it's akin to trying to work out what led someone to abuse a child or kill someone. They may have mental health issues, they may have been abused themselves or any number of things but as Dark Angel says, the result is still the same and in a case where said person obviously knows right from wrong they should be punished.
In this case as I understand it, it is only her husband suffering from mental health issues (and sometimes with mental illness, perception is quite distorted). Lesley should therefore have been able to see how wrong this all was and ask for help - the fact that she didn't is just astounding.
Even if you are embarrassed or ashamed of how things have gotten, if you really DO love your animals you surely ask regardless?
EDIT TO ADD as for how to prevent things like this happening again, well I just don't see how that is possible in the wider sense. There are issues with how fast the big welfare organisations can respond, and that relies on someone noticing neglect to report it. Charities are already full to bursting with horses that people can't afford with the economy being what it is, but all of them are still approachable if you are struggling and can offer advice.
In a smaller sense of the AL community, maybe a network of people who are able and willing to take horses on in the short or long term if someone is struggling, or people who are prepared to help out another AL'er who is local should they be having problems? |
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Edited by - caz on 16 Oct 2012 8:14:13 PM |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:19:04 PM
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| yes. I do, never met them personally, but they helped me tremendously when the mare I own (Zareeba and Kruger's Sister) had turned up at Pannal horse sales with a foal at foot 7 inch across, I do have a little experience of mental ill health. My husband has an enduring illness himself. He is stable now, and has been for years, and actually went through a phase where he just existed, laying on his back, unable to do the most basic things. I think people who say that they have been ill, know someone who is ill and is coping, forget that often mental ill health is cyclic, and can be so destructive, especially if two sufferers are ill together. To compare symptoms... well they are as diverse as a common cold and a massive stroke in physical health. So much anger here and all we need to do is learn and try to recognise symptoms and help before things are overwhelming. There has also been an element of not wanting to let go here. A few months ago, a lady in our town went shopping, then jumped off the multi story car park. She had shopped so clearly she had considered her needs beyond that moment. She had an appointment to view a new flat a couple of days after. Mental ill health is not logical, and some people are trying to rationalise something that can't be rationalised. Rather than just tut tut, I would really like us to try to understand how this happened. Not excuse it, but work together to help those in need. I know, that where Nirvalis was concerned there was conflicting advice from vets whether he could perhaps be saved. He had symptoms like that before and had pulled through. The old mare was clearly very ill. I just wanted to try to help Zareeba and Kruger, that is all, I really wish I had offered help sooner. This is all so sad, and yes, it would be nice to put it into neat little boxes and then let it go. BUT please, can we try to look after each other, and recognise when things are going wrong, before they get to this stage |
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Dark Angel
Silver Member
England
285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:24:14 PM
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| Callisto, if we knew why people murdered their kids etc we would be able to stop it happening wouldn't we? We can't stop it happening because of the complex nature of the human psyche. That, and of course the fact that we are, at present, unable to read others' minds. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. What went wrong was that these people failed in their duty of care towards their animals - end of. |
Hereford |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:32:21 PM
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"what went wrong and how to prevent something similar happening again"
Sadly, this point of view has been misinterpreted. (so many times it beggars belief) Misinterpreted to read that the actions were condoned, it really has stopped being a realistic response.
Today I read, a publicly published comment, that they (not the skippers, a forum poster) had 'chucked their horses out' because they were, and I quote, too lazy to muck out. That sounds like a cry for help to me, it really sounds like a problem in the making.
I don't understand, or at least I'm not prepared to say, what i think the motivation is behind the totally illogical misrepresentation of what the 'need to understand' view is; its a need to know how it happened, and in no way accepting that what happened is anything other than horrific and tragic. And at the risk of sounding patronizing, please just read the words.
For the lady on here who 'doth protest too much'.
Hey, stop the aggression, and just ask for help, this forum will understand, high profile person or not, the forum will understand. I have a friend who lives very close to you, an ex jockey, he would love to work with horses again and help you, please don't be afraid to ask. |
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Edited by - Pop on 16 Oct 2012 8:34:04 PM |
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:45:23 PM
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all we need is love.
If anyone on here feels that they are a little overwhelmed at present... please pm me xx |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:47:41 PM
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| Funny enough I disagree - I'd come here for help - there's some good kind people here, although many of them lurk but will pop up when needed. If it wasn't LS, I' sure the story would be different. |
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Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:49:12 PM
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I'm very saddened and disappointed to see that some are still defending Lesley, despite the utterly disturbing photos.
There was a time when AL was all about the horses - but now... I don't know, things seem to have changed.
Sad, sad times indeed |
      
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant |
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arabesque
Silver Member
339 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 8:53:15 PM
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In a case like this feelings will always run high!
If I were in a position of not being able to cope, I imagine reading comments such as those made by Jackiedo, Pop and Callisto might encourage me to make the decision to request help. Probably via the PM system though!
Nobody condones the suffering that these horses went through, but if the non-judgemental attitude of some members here means that somebody else may not be afraid to ask for help then there will be a more positive outcome for some other horses in the future perhaps? |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
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Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
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what is happening?
Topic Locked 
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)