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jo78
Silver Member
499 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 6:24:19 PM
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Today we have had our first NH session, and i am starting from scratch from leading like a leader to picking up feet with no issues!
I found this all very interesting, and really want a better trust, bond, relationship with my horse.
I just wondered who else does this, and what your stories, experiences are?.and how it has helped your relationship with your arabs.
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J.Ellis |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 7:08:35 PM
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| Any system that teaches patience, empathy and common sense has got to be a good thing, on the other hand it is quite possible to use your very own patience, empathy and common sense!!! |
lisa |
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littlecrabbs
Bronze Member
England
89 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 8:54:29 PM
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| After rescueing an abused Arab and trying to help her with time, patience, kindness etc etc i sent her to a NH pro for therapy and then having lessons and useing the methods ever since and i can not believe the difference. I was sceptical at first but now a total convert. Now i don,t care what people think or say, it,s been quite literally a lifesaver for her. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 9:29:44 PM
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I use NH methods from when I first got Kes and it taught us both a lot. I wouldn't say I subscribe to any particular 'brand' but I myself was taught Classically. Even though many methods that have been marketed claim NH methods they have been in use for a long time already.
I found of particular benefit leadership training. This really taught Kes to follow my lead (and listen to aids), trust in me, have confidence in me and himself.
As I haven't had him for very long I would also say it helped bonding too, he is very attentive and looks to me readily for instruction and appraisal.
Carole. |
    
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Kazarsmum
Bronze Member
223 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 11:40:53 PM
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Hi there.
i learnt Parelli to Level 2 whilst working for the uk parelli centre. i now practice natural horsemanship but i have to say its a mix of different syles and commonsence.
but it has help me loads to understand more about my horses "moods". i also was able to go from riding in a gag to riding bitless over night. |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 5:33:05 PM
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It's just a pity groundwork, communication and observation wasn't and isn't part of learning to ride. Then so many people wouldn't need to find NH much later down the line. Think of all the horses that wouldn't be 'wasted' particularly Arabs! But I guess finding and learning anything that builds trust and empathy is good, no matter the title or time in life found!
Like so many others I found parelli when I got a mare after a 20 year break from horses. She had been well and truly screwed, literally on the poll with the corkscrew bits and in her mind with being treated like a machine. I got to near the end of level 2 when she died suddenly.
She was and always will be my best teacher and my 3 and me thank her from the bottom of our hearts.
Good luck and enjoy and remember it's your horse who is actually the teacher, keep listening! 
Fee |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 7:52:28 PM
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Natural horsemanship is wonderful. My only issue is when someone says that you have to do it their way and you have to buy their equipment. believe me you can do Parelli in a normal headcollar with a soft lunge line and a chopped down lunge line. It is your state of mind that matters most. But I must admit that through watching parelli I have slowed things down and become less demanding of my horses.
Like Kes I practice my own brand of NH with influences from many of the current practitioners. The funny thing is I have always done NH, I just didn't know it had a name. |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 8:01:11 PM
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Oh sorry jo78 I forgot the thing about arabs specifically. I treat them like any other horse, but they just give so much more back to me.
After practising with quarter horses I have found them delightful to work and play with. Both youngsters are building a trusting relationship with me that has already been very satisfying. They really appreciate being part of the process. |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 8:17:13 PM
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Exactly Fee that is what I meant by my first post.
Aside from that there is nothing 'natural' about primates sitting on the backs of equines!
As for Arabs JO78, most of them are extremely intelligent and responsive and therefore very rewarding to work with  |
lisa |
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KittyB
Silver Member
United Kingdom
295 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 2:30:33 PM
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| Like others on this post, I tend to use a combination of several different methods of NH, some with great success, others with limited. I don't expect too much of my horses at any one stage, and am able to progress positively by not demanding beyond their capabilities. I don't get stressed as my targets are flexible and realistic. It also helps to end a session before the horse is tired/bored/hungry etc. Knowing when to call it a day, even if you haven't done that rein back/canter change/square halt is very important. As with another passion of mine, using "Sound Mountain Judgment" means there's always another day. I have trained in Parelli by a friend from Australia, but haven't gone through the"stages" formally - simply applying the techniques as and when. I have also found Richard Maxwell's book 'From Birth to Backing' a fabulous reference when dealing with youngsters. I am currently starting to introduce George to ridden work. He's just turned 4, and I've owned him since a weanling and the NH techniques have been invaluable. It is so rewarding when they show their trust. Good luck with your NH - it really is a wonderful experience. |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 2:44:20 PM
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Fee - I totally agree with your comment 'It's just a pity groundwork, communication and observation wasn't and isn't part of learning to ride.'
I can barely think of anyone I know who would consider any sort of ground work other than - if you can call it groundwork - lunging and that is usually to try to take the edge of a horse before they ride. I know people think I am mad to continue on doing groundwork now Eba is backed. I try to school a couple of days a week, hack a couple of days and do a day or two of long reining and in hand exercises where possible or do a day of each if I don't have the time. you can learn - you and the horse - from the ground, and I wish I had come to it sooner. Having seen people who really know what they are doing long reining, it seems an almost lost art. What a shame.
B
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 3:21:07 PM
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Just to echo some of what beckyBoodle has said I still do groundwork with a perfectly ride-able horse. I suppose in some instances it does settle him, certainly in the first 5 minutes he is taking in the surroundings of the school as opposed to listening to me. I find that doing some gentle and fun groundwork puts him in a good mood and he's less likely to be spooky, rather than me just hop on.
Sometimes I do lunge but for the most part I do leadership and stretching exercises, and we play ground games in our version of a mini 'le trec'.
I also agree with KittyB, knowing when to stop is really important. As soon as Kes gets a new thing right we stop as we have achieved what we wanted. Even if he doesn't get something perfect he has tried his best and that's good enough, there's always another day but finishing on a good note is important, although if you get into bad situations when something has gone wrong that should be addressed accordingly but never by punishment (which does happen still sadly). |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:26:23 PM
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Lol Pop. I do believe you might be purchasing some pink garments soon and/or going shopping? Worse still ENJOYING shopping!!! (not horse or horse related shopping) Or maybe you are having the urge to discuss cushions and curtains?
Mats is a typical wise Arab, she needs her one to one that allows her show you her true self.
Fee
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 7:25:14 PM
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That's nice Pop (your earlier post). I am soppy, my horse can be soppy and we have very soppy moments but I don't care what others think.
I would go as far as saying that how you engage with your horse is still a part of Natural Horsemanship.
It all builds up to the bigger picture, and has already been said a few times, when you learn to ride you miss a lot of the very basic things which are so important.
Carole. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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zebedeedeb
Gold Member
England
516 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 8:11:46 PM
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| i am doing my applied equine behaviour diploma and have just passed level 1 ,only another 18 months until i qualify to teach others, was doing alot of it before but now learning how to refine it,, i am working with my 8 yr old arab/new forest cross and teaching my little lad too,, they give u so much back.. i would love to teach the younger people and show them there is a different way, rather than just the traditional way,, even smaller children can also learn so much, and horses have such a way with them too,, deb |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 8:28:22 PM
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Good luck with that deb. Would be so nice if all aspects of good horsemanship was taught to children and/or beginners. Can you imagine how awesome that would be fir the horse to have a generation of that knowledge, empathy and skill coming through!
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Kazarsmum
Bronze Member
223 Posts |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 9:29:40 PM
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I am loving this topic. Pop, I know just what you mean about knowing you might get your teeth knocked out, and yet also knowing on a different level that it won't happen.
The other day I was briefly horrified to find that my quarter horse gwelding had opened the door to the smallest stable on the premesis and let two other horses in!!! there was not enough room and he was standing in the doorway unable to back out. He can't back out through lameness (he is 24 yrs and very lame) So I had to wade in to manipulate a welsh cob yearling, my two year old filly and Cody who is 15.2hh. One by one I turned them on the unbedded slippery floor. No one panicked or became stressed by the closeness of the others. Mistral (the arab) was a real star, neither bossing the yearling or being afraid of the gelding. I managed to turn them one by one and lead them out of the narrow corridor. (You would have to see this stable to fully appreciate the problem) My point is that the work I have done with them individually has allowed me to extract them from a very tricky situation. Trust was paramount.
So whatever you call to name 'it' horse sense works. |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
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Kazarsmum
Bronze Member
223 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:14:19 PM
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haha.
Ermmmm how blinking tidy is your yard!!! not a patch of mud on it!!!!
the short cut entrance to my field is up a small path (horse width) and through a hunting gate. Barty regularly wanders up it when i let him wander in on his own from the driveway when returning from rides. I always have to get him to back up so i can open the gate. that or crawl under his legs / belly........ |
www.timelessequine.yolasite.com
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 12:22:18 AM
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Judging from her ears,Inka wasn't happy she found the bin empty!
I also think many of the NH methods are really just common sense,or "horse sense",and were already used by those working with horses(not the abusive ones!)before.And I agree that setting up a fixed method that should work/obtain the same results with every horse is a simplification and doesn't keep into account that horses aren't robots that just go by instinct but different individuals with different histories and it makes perfect sense to use different methods depending on the horse and the situation.I think studying the horse natural behavior does certainly help,but can we really apply it in our relationship with them as it is,or shouldn't we think that after all ours isn't exactly a "natural"situation,we are not horses and our horse knows it very well,and he's capable of understanding much more than what we account him for?(not talking about ALiners of course)
IMO we need a lot of listening,horse sense and love more than methods,they can be good also but not followed blindly.
As for soppy moments and kisses,I also have them,some people might think I'm crazy but who cares! |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 09:21:08 AM
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I must admit that I find an awful lot of the Natural Horsemanship stuff is common sense, and has been around a long time - not every horseman in history abused their horses as a matter of course. I haven't posted before on this particular topic because I was afraid of sounding smug, but I am lucky enough to have been at least the 4th generation of my family (on my mother's side) to have been raised around horses. The only foal we ever bred started coming out with us hacking before he was a yearling (he had to as we were riding his Mum and we couldn't leave him behind), his mother weaned him when she was ready. We played with him constantly. And to be quite honest we didn't back him as such - we just started riding him when he was four - it was just a natural progression of all the other stuff we had been doing with him In fact the first time he was sat on was bareback in the field with a headcollar on - he just looked round to say what are you doing now?. I would say that the local 'horsy' set thought that we were more than a little eccentric.
Don't get me wrong, I think there is plenty to learn from people like Monty Roberts, but I get so tired of the evangelism of some of these methods, and frankly I was brought up to have empathy with the horse (can't imagine why you'd want to have anything to do with them otherwise - sounds very unpleasant) and I'm 50 at Christmas, and am a product of my mother's teaching and the pony club. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 21 Jun 2011 09:27:56 AM |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 09:44:40 AM
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It seems like we're all on the much the same page here. Although NH methods have been banded round in recent years as a new thing, they aren't. As I said in my first post on this thread, I was taught classically but it wasn't just about riding, it was understanding and empathy, it was natural horsemanship. Only back then it didn't have a name and wasn't marketed as such, we just did it.
I think unfortunately because it wasn't well known with everyone a lot of people and horses missed out on some great times, I am glad that now it is well known and even has a name. I don't see anything wrong in naming it and marketing it, what I see as more important is that more people are doing it and correctly, that can only be of more benefit to more horses then.
Carole. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 09:55:34 AM
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I think things are just going round.
I have a sort of theory that there has been a period of time, between when horses were work animals and now, when somehow the average jo only came in contact with horses at riding stables or perhaps because of time constraints, or because of economic factors just spent less time with horses. The background to this, is when I started to do my shiatsu training, I realised that I would groom a horse with a brush but I was rarely really hands on. now I mainly rode at riding stables or sort of loaned, but because of the livery arrangement I really only rode more than looked after. And looking around a lot of the people I knew or came into contact with it seemed to be the norm. Get horse out of stable or in from field, brush off, saddle on, ride, brush off, feed, put back in stable. youngsters were left in a field until 3 or 4 and then backed/broken and then riden. On the whole while we had horses, we were somewhat divorced from horses.
A lot of owners seemed suprised with what I would pick up from doing shiatsu - and most of the time it was just that I had my hands on them. I would feel an area of heat, or cold or a lump or see the horse flinch or push into an area that it wanted rubbing, huge tummy gurgles as you massaged the abdomen. It wasn't rocket science or anything.
While everyone acknowledges the results of all the time I spent with Eba while she was growing up, taking her out for walks, just being with her, taking her into the school to see the scary jumps or whatever, and thought it was nice, most aren't interested until they can ride the horse, and riding is the goal, groundwork for a lot of the people in the mainstream of horses just think is a waste of time. I have seen so many ponies that would dearly benefit from some groundwork and bond building time. Their little owners do spend time with them, but it is mainly a groom and then ride.
So as you say it is common sense. Before I had Eba, I could ride, but had little/no experience of owning. It has just been a learning experience for both of us. Hopefully, more people will understand the benefits - a well mannered horse, a less spooky horse, a soppy horse - and give the non-ridden side a bit more time and attention.
Hope that makes sense - it is a bit of a train of thought really.
B
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 3:41:58 PM
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BeckyBoodle,agree with you,for most people the horse is a mean(to do sport,to win a competition,to show off and so on)and not an end,that is why so many people don't think twice about getting rid of a horse that doesn't suits their needs anymore even if they know he will eventually end up at the slaughterhouse.Not many take the time to look and find a suitable home and just call a dealer,even when they have the economical means to keep the horse.Would they do the same with their dogs?An afternoon spent walking around with my horse taking him to look for some nice grazing spots has the same importance(if not more)than tack and ride him,but most people think I'm wasting my time because I'm not USING him.Then I'm the one they call to catch the pony that has escaped and is running away from them(and who comes when he sees me,wonder why?maybe because I give him a scratch or a treat when I meet him as I do with most horses?)
Yesterday I said to a child whose mare suffered badly from sweet itch to maybe get some repellent as we are having an invasion of mosquitoes and the poor mare was full of bites,I heard her saying to a friend"Have to get something otherwise she will scratch,loose the hair and mane,and when I go for the competition I will have a bald mare"I was horrified,not a thought about the poor mare feeling itchy and miserable,only how she would look!
Needless to say,this kid only rides her mare(she hardly knows how to put a saddle on) |
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Natural Horsemanship
