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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 4:41:29 PM
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I have read a lot of posts on this and what i still don't understand
is why people are going round and round in circles.
No one is saying in hand horses don't make ridden horses
No one is saying everyone treats horses badly.
No one is saying we shouldn't show horses.
The list goes on.
All that most of us are saying is that if you have to frighten
a horse to get it moving then it really isn't a natural show
horse and that is it.No one wants to see a horse in any sort of
distress.
I for one don't agree with a lot of the practices that other
countries do to horses and i am usually proud to say i am
British and how most of us look after our horses. There will
always be a minority of people who do things to get the results
i wouldn't. I think if we keep arguing amongst our selves we
will put it more in the spotlight 
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Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 5:37:44 PM
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 Well done on your HOYS ticket Lou, another lovely Arabian who can not only perform at top level inhand showing but go out and do a ridden class the same day.
See you at Towerlands ;)
Mandy xxx |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Vicki M
Silver Member
England
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 8:24:12 PM
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Just thought I would also reply. As with many people on this site and throughout the "Showing World" My horse has gone from the In Hand to the ridden circuit....Ok we do have our moments where the old tail shoots in the air and he starts showing off like he has done In Hand but he has settled nicely to do well under saddle and perform quietly and yesterday he qualified for HOYS.
Like other breeds and society's the so called "Training to get some of these animals to the top can require some extreme methods. Hackney's, cobs, trotters. Trust me over in the UK our trainers are very kind in comparison. With regards to clapping and cheering have any of you been to the Royal Welsh on Cob day or ponies uk evening performance, festival of champions, Premier Championships.....Banging and foot stamping seems the normal thing to do......Another thing is that a good horse, no matter what lines they have, will always stand up the line in any uk competition |
  
Vicki M
Al Karif Arabians |
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LOU
Gold Member
England
637 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 9:54:27 PM
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Well done for yesterday Vicky your boy was ridden to perfection and a well deserved Hoys ticket, another in hand horse who puts on his other hat fantastic.
See you at Towerlands
Lou.x. |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2010 : 10:02:36 PM
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I cannot resist this.
Remember Vody...... doing a circuit after circuit, with professional handler, after professional handler.... 
He did not need the extremes to move and show, just a very real showman, enjoying his adoring public. I clapped and clapped and cried too.
There are more out there,... 'Naturals', who just love to show off, so Bless them all.
I miss his appearances Sal. Give him a hug from me. |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 09:54:33 AM
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| Agreed Pat! HRH Vody needs no encouragement whatsoever but given his reception whenever he stepped into the ring he just gave MORE!! Pity he wasn't there this year ...!!! Horses which are so natural at showing off are such a pleasure to watch but those that don't enjoy it less so. Just like some people are extrovert and others less so - for example I'd absolutely hate being made to do karoke and nothing would encourage me to do so!!! |
Marilyn
     
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 3:30:23 PM
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I was at Malvern, I did see some horses being whirled madly before they came in, there was a huge amount of noise from some people outside the ring and there was some shanking -including a quiet mare with a foal by a well known handler, so much so that people in front of me turned away saying they felt sick to watch it. Another lady in the stand went to make a complaint about the 'outside interference' where she was told that the Secretary had received many other complaints about the same people. So yes whether everyone saw it go on or not, it did happen and there will (should?) be recorded complaints to prove it.
On the other hand how great it was to see the handler of a foal signal to the crowd NOT to make a noise so that he could show it properly and gently. Then how stupid it is to whirl horses to confusion and for the crowd to make so much noise that the horses can't even trot out without breaking - or maybe that's the idea if they don't move well!
So knowing that journalists are on the look out for abuse because of the shambles last year and the controversy surrounding Arab showing, this would have been the best time to try to prove it doesn't go on. Clearly sadly it does and we can't blame the journalists! |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 4:31:09 PM
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Why are people defending this by saying it happens with other breeds too? So what? It shouldn't happen at all and all the in hand arab showing I've ever seen has been exactly the same - whooping, cheering, banging, horses whirling round, never trotting more than a few strides at a time. It knocks me sick to watch. There is no defence. Arabs should be shown naturally - none of this stretched out posing stance. Why is that necessary? Can anyone explain it's purpose? And whilst some in hand horses do make ridden horses the percentage is very low. There's been a discussion on the EGB forum recently and it was pretty much agreed that arabs that have been shown professionally in hand generally do not make good endurance horses or at least there is a huge amount of mental damage to be undone before you get a sane and sensible horse back.
So some on showing folk... if you all campaigned for natural showing and refused to do the whooping and twirling and stretched pose then it would disappear tomorrow. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 9:17:03 PM
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Moving on...but staying with the content from the H&H article and reference to the way the Crabbets were shown - did anyone see the class at Wessex (Yesterday) for those who wanted to show in the traditional manner?
I did not attend and would be interested to hear how it went in terms of support and spectator appeal? |
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annesmith
New Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 9:55:55 PM
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Ive been following this thread and refraining to comment but just couldn't stop myself. Personally I find it very very sad that the world who know little of the arabian horse, read about them this way. You all know that what has been written does happen and that those offenders are NOT punished. I think that H & H are very correct for voicing what was seen and I hope that it is taken on board by the right authorities and something is finally done. These are truly beautiful animals and this should not be allowed to happen.
On another note ridden classes are not doing much to promote the breed either. Apart from the Nationals, have any of you stood and watched a ridden arab class at a county show? Its embarrassing. Children on small show ponies put us to shame. There are very few who appear to be in control and a majority are generally poorly schooled. I apologise to the few out there who are upholding the stature of the breed but you are few and far between. No wonder the arab classes struggle for ridden judges. Take something positive from this and do something about it.
The arab horse world really need to pull the wool from their eyes, stop bitching about it all on the internet and do something about it
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 11:33:37 AM
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Hi Lottiehearts! I feel that I can comment on the Wessex as I judged there. (she runs off to hide now)
I don't want to be bashed on here nor do my comments represent those of the society, they are purely own personal views.
The Classic and Modern classes seemed to have around the same number of entries each...overall. My biggest class was in fact the classic barren mare class.
I have said this before on here that these classes allowed some of the older handlers to have a go themselves (not all,)!!and one of my Classic class winners told me she was 68 years young when I gave her rosette out.
So it allowed people to show in a manner similar to those showing Part breds or Anglos and I think has it's place in our rings.
Some showgrounds are not geared up to a collecting ring big enough to allow the individual trot in one at a time, so the old style of showing coming in at the walk has to be used and in fact is used at smaller shows now.
The difference is any type of Arab can be shown, it's just the manner which they are shown that is different.
In these classes we had a mixture of Crabbet and more modern Arabs.
For each class the best horse on the day won, whatever it's type or heritage!!
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 2:08:13 PM
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Thanks Sue. I don't suppose you can say if any professionals were in the 'classic ring'? The reason I ask is I wonder if amateurs get over faced with the modern way of showing and therefore saw Wessex as a great opportunity to get back out in the ring.
As I understand it, but may be very wrong, these classes were C qualifiers whereas an amateur class at a C show would not be a qualifier.
I do find it sad that the modern way of showing has such a bad press, if performed correctly it can be a joy to watch, not all are stretched beyond comprehension and shanked, many, many horses are well trained and shown beautifully. To allow the Arabian to extend naturally at the trot is simply breathtaking.
The negative - I have seen a terrified horse twitching in fear of their handler, which was extremely upsetting to watch and made my blood boil....But hand on heart I have to say I have not seen this with a UK handler on the end of the line. Apologies...I diversify!!!!!
Back to the point - Am I correct with the C qualifier status on the classic classes at Wessex?
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 3:55:59 PM
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I understand from the show secretary the classic classes are C status qualifiers and can now go forwards to Towerlands.
We did have some professionals in the classic classes. It is open to anyone.
A full report is coming out by the show organiser so perhaps she will fill the gaps for you all very soon.
Thanks. |
Edited by - SueB on 19 Aug 2010 11:06:19 AM |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 5:39:35 PM
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| In reply to Annesmith, the Arabian ridden classes at county that I personally have watched have been beautiful to watch and a credit to riders and horses. My personal opinion again, but the majority of children I see on small show ponies at county level are that the ponies are more robotic. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. |
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 6:21:05 PM
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Thanks Sue.
I will look forward to reading it - From what you have said it does sound like it was a success!
Will be a good opportunity for other shows too if ECAHO approve future classes.
Excellent news |
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laura
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
129 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 9:22:28 PM
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| i think people would be suprised at how many people want to show the way "we" do. we are not a minority we just dont post on here for fear of being riped to shreads quite frankly. i think its a joke to call us cruel. perhaps you can come and visit and see what intelligent horses enjoy. and the wind never stops blowing at our place so trees move all the time!! |
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Nut
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 11:25:39 AM
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| In response to annesmith's specific point on arab riders at the counties i think you're doing us a massive diservice. I have been to Herts County, Cranleigh and Chertsey counties so far this year, the line up included some top HOYs horses, we didnt have anyone disgrace us at any of those and at Chertsey on Sunday the stunning stallion Mooky certainly brought spectators to the ringside as did Viv Colemans HOYS gelding Maz and we competed when the Jousting Knights were on in the ring behind us, a donkey show to our left and cattle to the right. The more top horses seen at these shows the wider public appreciation of them will be. We drew the same crowds as the andulusian class as to the wider public theses different types of horse have beauty and grace stand them out. |
     www.ndlarabians.webs.com
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 12:17:46 PM
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IMO the best thing that could ever have happened, whereby the general public can truly appreciate the Arab Horse, is HOYS Ridden Arabian Classes!!
Ever more owners are riding their Arabians and the true show ridden Arabians have quality and type in abundance..PLUS the added extras.... good bone, deep through the girth, powerful hind quarters and long sloping shoulders, allowing for expressive floating paces (not the untypey knee action which the more modern in-hand Arabians seem to exhibit)
Outstanding Heads and Long hookey necks, do not necessarily make a HOYS ridden champion and it does seem that the tide is turning more towards the Ridden Arabians who really are Flying the flag for the breed
Obviously there will always be a want for the extreme Arabian type but do feel the market for Ridden Show/ performance Arabians is strengthening year on year to the benefit of the breed, which has got to be good news I feel 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 12:59:04 PM
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Okay, what is untypey knee action? I have two Egyptian Arabs that have a higer knee action than my old Crabbet mare, although her uncle who I also owned had a high knee action, and I just love them and prefer it to the so called daisey cutting action.
Re the comment on untypey knee action I thought this ad for an Arab stallion in Egypt was rather interesting
This EAO bred stallion has been a crowd
pleaser since he first hit the show ring. His
electrifying presence, unique type, balance and
extreme athletic ability has placed him as the
undefeated National Supreme Champion
Stallion between 1994 and 1997. Grandson of
the legendary Morafic, this high stepping
action, statuesque quality individual combine
some of the most classic bloodlines sought
after in Egyptian breeding today.
In a book I have translated from Spanish to English about the Andalucian the author talks about the Andalucian horse having longer cannon bones, therefore having a higher knee action, although not the high action of the parade Andalucian. He says they need this higher action because of the type of terrain they have to work in when dealing with the bulls/cattle, i.e. long grasses. So, my point of this post is perhaps Arabs, being from the desert, have longer cannons and higher knee action to help move through the sand.
We all seem to try and make the Arabian horse like horses/ponies native to Britain when he is from a totally different country. So, what is everyone's views? I'm not trying to cause an arguement, just a polite discussion if anyone has any opinions. |
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Edited by - Cate on 19 Aug 2010 5:53:13 PM |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 1:22:17 PM
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Hi Cate, there is a big difference between an Andalusian and an Arab, (having had both!) in terms of leg action and that's their back ends. The Andy is low, his tail is low set and more 'clamped down' and he sits down at the back, especially when collected.
The Arab in contrast is a racehorse and tends towards being high at the back end, with hooves turned out a bit so his rear feet go outside his fronts when galloping, so the Arab shouldn't need long cannons but have a long, swinging gait. Plus the wonderful elevation of course, allowed by those lovely athletic, angular back legs.
There's quite a bit of discussion in the dressage world at the moment about whether the accentuated movement that is fashionable is actually 'good'. |
Roseanne |
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spyros
Bronze Member
England
210 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 3:24:32 PM
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I was not going to post but feel I should. I needed to be treated by the first aid man who was parked by the main arena; I asked him if he was enjoying the show, simply making conversation. His response saddened me, saying he goes to numerous horse events during the year but was not enjoying this show due to the manner in which the in hand horses were being worked up into such a frenzy prior to entering the ring, as a spectator he felt the handling was very uncomfortable to watch and unnecessarily cruel.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 4:44:55 PM
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Well...there you go, a totally unbiased opinion from a member of the general public attending our National Show in his capacity as First Aid administrator
Will those responsible for his unhappy experience and impartial opinion, on how he viewed the "frenzy" of the In Hand exhibitors, witnessed in the collecting ring....will they ever take notice and refrain from these unnecessary practices, which are bringing the National Show into disrepute....I think not!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2010 : 5:25:26 PM
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| Hi Roseanne, Yes, Thanks for your knowledgeable reply. I know there is a difference between the two, (I also owned an Hispano Arabe mare for 7 or 8 years from a rising 4 yr old), but I did think what this chap wrote in his book "This is the Spanish Horse" by Juan Llamas, was rather interesting especially as I often hear from people that the cannon's on Egyptian bred horses are too long and they can't move compared to the Crabbet. |
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Topic |
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AHS NATIONAL SHOW H & H "TALKING POINT"
