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Vera
Membership Moderator
 United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
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themewoman
Silver Member
England
375 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 2:30:17 PM
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| i did see this and i'm not sure how to react. Surely the foal must be insured and they can claim the op through that? |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 2:56:21 PM
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I also agree it is not a normal thing to fund raise for, similar thing happened at a yard I worked at, one of the liveries there suddenly lost her horse she broke her leg in the field only 9 years old, I found her in the field not a good experience makes me go cold when I think of that day.
Anyway one of her friends at the yard left a note in all the liveries tack rooms asking for money to contribute for an individual cremation, I felt that it was a bit wrong to ask for money for this, I think it is up to the owner of the horse to decide and pay for this kind of thing, when I lost my own horse I would never have expected anyone else to pay for her cremation.
I think the same applies to this operation although it is a sad story as Themewoman says does she have no insurance? I wouldn't want the foal PTS but I feel it is a bit wrong to ask for financial help. |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 3:14:47 PM
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I can't imagine any insurance company would insure for this condition - it would obviously be pre existing at the time the policy was taken out, unless you can insure a foal in utero, which also seems highly unlikely.....though I could be wrong 
I am less concerned about the pros and cons of raising money, than I am about the quality of life the foal will have, even after an operation. Does anyone know if it could ever eat normally?
I appreciate that life is beautiful, but if the foal will suffer to some extent throughout it's life, should it be put through that? |
Kelly
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 3:27:50 PM
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Well IMO this IS the type of thing I would be willing to contribute to... Especially if the foal could possibly have complications down the line. It's coping very well now so why should it be PTS?
How many people pay insurance on a foal before it's born? You wouldn't be able to get it afterwards.
It seems the little girl will love this foal anyway and if it's s forever home anyway and it will help the little thing.. No probs by me!!
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Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 3:53:19 PM
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Quite apart from whether I would or wouldn't, I would certainly be a bit upset if I were one of the people giving advice, because the story does imply that the advice was given on the basis of his looks rather than his long term health and well being. If it was just a matter of his looks, then he would not need an operation. had it been reported fairly i.e. the advice is valid and I know he will have some significant health challenges, but I still want to try; I would have felt better about it.
It does imply advice was given based on looks alone -
'People shouldn't say he should be put down because of what he looks like, it doesn't matter to me.
'My friends really like him too and we have so much fun feeding him. He's the best horse ever.'
Mrs Biddlecombe, who keeps her horses in Southampton, Hants, sought advice online from others on the New Forest Equine Directory forum and was shocked by some responses.
She said: 'I asked for help and advice but some people have been unkind and told me to put him to sleep.
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 3:55:25 PM
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The problem is delly-b is that the foal is coping now on a liquid diet, what happens when he goes onto solid food? He will require a series of operations as he grows to enable him to eat.
Just imagine how many youngsters could be saved from the sales and therefore slaughter, which have nothing wrong with them. A friend of mine bought a colt at this years New Forest Sales for £10! |
    
Hampshire |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 4:09:29 PM
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Ok fine everybody have a go at this poor person - i don't care if i get barred from here - HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER HAD THIS HAPPEN BEFORE????????
I HAVE, IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD, NO I REFUSED PEOPLE WHO KINDLY OFFERED DONATIONS, I FOUND A WAY OF DEALING WITH THIS WHERE EVERYONE IS HAPPY INCLUDING THE LITTLE FOAL.
wITH 6 MONTHLY DENTRISTRY HE WILL DO FINE AS A COMPANION HORSE, HEAVY EXERCISE IS ANOTHER THING.
FEEL FREE TO TRY AND RAISE THE PHOTO I POSTED MAY 29TH 2009 FROM THE ARCHIVES HERE, SHE IS ALIVE WELL, IN FABULOUS CONDITION AND HAS'NT BEEN OPERATED ON.
BUT DON'T HAVE A GO AT THE OWNER SHE IS ONLY TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST OF A VERY DISTRESSING SITUATION. |
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delly-b
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1107 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 4:11:10 PM
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Well it would have to be an informed decision. Like i said if it sorts future complications i would give it a chance. Yes quality of life vs suffering would have to be taken into account as for any op. I just feel if the foal can be given a good chance, in the right circumstance yes I would look to help.
And Vera I know what you mean about all the poor horses that go through the sales. If I could help, I would there too. Unfortunately I am not in a position to do that, but being the kind of person I am I help any animal if I can within my limits. I recently cried many tears over a poor old dog that was found near me. I took it in for 4 days and wouldn't let the dog warden take him to the pound. I think when he saw how I was being, he got the dog into the Leeds Dogs Trust. "Freddie" now has a lovely new home!
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Adele
Batley, West Yorkshire |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 4:26:15 PM
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Hmmmmm,I don't think "everyone" is having a go at the woman. I was having a go at the reporting style and what it implied about those giving advice. Nevertheless, I will consider myself shouted (CAPS) at. Ho Hum .... |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 4:56:55 PM
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I have seen a foal with this condition, but in a lot less severe degree, and she has had to go through several operations to get to cope on solid foods... its in my view too much suffering for both horse and owner... I am sorry that you Kimzi has been through this, and I know we are in very different opinions, as if I should ever have a foal born with this condition it will be PTS.
here is a picture of the Frisian filly foal in Denmark
before operation:
here after 2 operations:
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www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians
Worcester based
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 5:59:52 PM
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I agree with you totally vera.
This story has caused absolute outrage down here in the 'forest'!!
Little arabians, could i just say that the foal in question is considerably more deformed than the one in your picture.
the £4000 that has been quoted by an equine dentist is to 'try' and sort out the problem of the over shot lower jaw. With NO guaruntee that it will help at all
What about the rest of the problems this poor chap has???
How many thousands will she be trying to raise then? And is it right to put this little chap through lots of major, painful operations with no guaruntee of the outcome???
She was advised by her vet that the kindest thing to do was PTS, and she has chosen not to, so surely it is up to her to fund any surgery herself???!!!
He may be managing now, but what about when he is weaned??? how on earth will he cope then???
I do feel dreadfully sorry for her and her family to be in this situation, but surely their feelings must come second and they should put the pony and his quality of life first
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www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 6:21:12 PM
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I'm sorry vera, but how many people on here barr those with rich husbands and boyfriends really have the money sitting there when disaster happens at this present time i don't, buffy's people sure did'nt and if i remember rightly it was very hit and miss if she would make it. The operations are another matter which we decided that the complications would be far too risky but hey there are some real success stories out there if you look for them. My vet advised pts as quote"that is always what my previous clients have chosen to do" but you are given 2 time options to do this right at birth or after weaning and people become attatched at that point.
Daisy will have a fabulous quality of life providing her dentistry plan is adhered to. They don't need to be ridden, shown or utilised in any way to have quality of life. |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 7:08:35 PM
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Oh poor baby that is just so tragic :((
I'm on the side of paying your own way I'm afraid. I feel very uncomforable when people request donations for these sort of things. If there is no emergency fund then there are credit cards and if you feel so strongly about something pay for it on that. Take one out which offers interest free on purchases for the first 10/12 months. Cut it up and pay it off bit by bit monthly. Although £4000 is a hell of a bill and the end result ??? |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 7:20:53 PM
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We all as owners, responsible adults need to accept the consequences of our decisions be it keeping alive a genetically unsound creature,an elderly horse or infirm horse. As such we have to therefore accept the consequences of our decisions. Be those financial, time or emotional, to try and ask others to fund the consequences of our informed decisions is not then a reasonable thing to ask.
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Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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alan
Silver Member
England
434 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 7:37:36 PM
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| Two years ago we lost a mare whilst foaling (I know its different to this). The foal was in the birth canal for over an hour with no oxygen when the mare was pts. When the foal was finally delivered she was lifeless. We wasn't prepared to give up so began to try & revive the foal. Another 45mins went by until she came round but she was brain damaged. We was now faced with the decision of trying or putting the filly to sleep after all. we dedided to give her a chance & after thousands of pounds & sleepless nights she pulled through & is still with us. She's small & still quite slow sometimes but we feel we made the right decision in the end. The only help we asked for was help with a foster mare if possible which Donna from Java Arabians had & was prepared to help but our filly had no suck reflex & really didn't know what to do so we hand reared her. I feel that if there's a chance then give it a try but DON'T ask for donations. |
  
www.spirit-arabians.co.uk |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 8:13:53 PM
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| A terribly sad case, and I believe there is a young child involved who loves the poor foal, but it is going to grow up and its problems will continue. It is obviously the owner's decision if they go ahead with the operation, and any future treatment it will need, but I do feel it is up to them to fund it. On the other hand, if people feel that they wish to contribute to the costs that is entirely up to them. I just worry about the foal's future quality of life, particularly if the owner is going to have difficulty in funding the care it will need. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 10:05:59 PM
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we who own horses , know just how much they cost to keep and if things go wrong and vets bill's occur that is our responsibility no one else's.
If we cant afford them WE shouldn't have them.
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 10:47:16 PM
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karen d:
I do believe you misunderstood me, I posted the pictures of the filly to show that even though she wasn't half as deformed as the foal in the article, she still needed 2 of these very expensive operations to be able to eat.
as cold as it might sound (and I know its easier said then done) should I ever have a foal born like this it will be PTS as quick as the vet could come out.
I have friends in Denmark who last year got a lovely warm blood colt foal, his back was deformed, and they left him alive until weanling time, this was very traumatic for them, as they got to love the little boy... in spite of everybody, except the chiropractor, telling them it would never be right, they choose to go for the tiny chance that the chiropractor was right and would be able to help... well she never did any difference, the foal was hardly able to walk... very happy little boy though... but what quality of life would he have if they let him live!!
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www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians
Worcester based
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 06:46:56 AM
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Oh, poor little baby and poor little girl, it must be so hard for them.  However, perfectly healthy foals are being slaughtered for meat, here and abroad, and I would rather donate to stop that. It is an individual choice and should be funded by the individual. |
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Esther
Gold Member
United Kingdom
866 Posts |
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maromito
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 08:04:10 AM
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I feel for this lady and her little girl BUT would have euthanaised the foal soon after birth,it is quite badly affected and I agree will only have increased difficulty as it grows,its not a kindness to put it through painful surgery that may not improve its long term future .
I would have explained to my Daughter that its quality of life wouldnt be very good and it would be better to let him go than to let him suffer,we cant totally protect our children from the realities of life nor should we try ,they have to learn that every story doesnt always have a happy ending ,that the reality of life |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 09:15:11 AM
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Poor thing
Much as I would want to do everything to save him if he were mine, I also think of the hundreds of foals and youngsters going for meat, terrified and straight off the hills/forest etc, who have no issues...and think that would affect my decision too....?
And before anyone pounces on me YES we have had to make the decision to put down a very young foal who would not have had a viable future, so know how hard a decision it is to make |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 09:41:41 AM
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I WOULD donate if the quality of life was there for the little boy!
Sadly i think this world and alot of the horse world is all about looks! If the foal can eat and have a decent quality of life even non ridden thats great.
There is lots of situations i have donated into ie Buffy where there was no definate answer that they will survive. But isnt every horse life worth a chance. (i know the two cases are totally different but there is still a life there)
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Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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Topic |
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Fundraising for operation on disfigured foal?...
