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Vera
Membership Moderator
 United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 6:02:06 PM
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I hope its OK to post this admin....
This is all over Facebook
Could all who are ANTI Panda eyes write or e mail willy.luder@ecaho.org as they need to gather ammo to prove that NOT "95 % ", are PRO Panda eyes! Many thanks!!!!
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Hampshire |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 7:09:36 PM
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For those who don't know where to look, start by going to the ECAHO page on Facebook.
This is what I have just written:
Dear Sir
I hope this rule will remain in force and not be revoked or diluted in any way. As dark skin around the eyes is a desired *natural characteristic* of Arabian horses, in my opinion the attempt to introduce this look artificially by shaving, oiling, etc should continue to be penalised since it is an attempt to present the horse as other than it *naturally* is, and hence is a form of deception.
On another level, the look is grotesque and disfigures more than it enhances. It is also derided by equestrians outside of the Arabian sphere and as such contributes to a poor image of the breed which I for one, have been trying to counter for many years.
Keren Gilfoyle-McGroarty, life-member AHS and owner/breeder since 1980.
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 7:49:13 PM
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I have replied too:
Dear Sir,
I am an owner of two Arabian geldings; both shown at C shows, and my older gelding also at UKIAHS, shown naturally. I, for one, was very pleased to see the rule against “panda-eyes” in 2010.
I have been around the Arabian scene since the late 1970s and deplore MANY of the changes i.e artificial posing/extreme stand up (Arabs should have naturally level croups and shouldn’t need to pose grotesquely to attain this) and I also remember when a bridlepath was only acceptable in a show ring in the year in which a horse had been imported to the UK, and then had to be grown out.
I do hope that, in time, more of these ludicrous “fashionable” trends will also be repealed but, for now, congratulations on removing “panda eyes”.
Regards,
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Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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arabiantouch
Gold Member
England
590 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2010 : 11:55:50 PM
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| i hope that all who are as pashonate about this rule will also stand up against partbred yearlings having all tactile hair either clipped or shaved off from around the muzzle, also the need to show a yearling in a bit regardless of sex. it intrigues me that they are also a well respected part of our breed yet no one has any objections to how they are shown, turned out and handled. I would love to hear any postitive thoughts as what you all suggest should happen about this also as everyone is so against the "panda eye" look. |
  
louise,xxx
International freelance trainer
louisebrian@hotmail.co.uk
www.arabiantouchshowtraining.co.uk |
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suyents
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1651 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 08:05:08 AM
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| people who have to rely on using panda eyes are simply showing the world that their horses have small eyes....time the judges reacted accordingly. |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 08:34:46 AM
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And 'Panda Eyes' is an attempt to "disguise exhibits", which is contrary to ECAHO rules of showing.
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Lanabanana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2691 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 09:54:16 AM
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Although I'm NOT a fan of 'Panda Eyes' I do agree with Louise, I find it odd that the ones who are often the most vociferous on the subject of bridlepaths, clipping foals and panda eyes are the ones who think it perfectly acceptable to remove all tactile hair, clip inside ears, pull manes and tails and then yank the remaining hair into tight little plaits |
     
Hampshire. |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 10:06:11 AM
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| Have to say that I cringe and am thoroughly ashamed of myself that I used to do everything Lanabanana and arabiantouch talk about with my part bred (although 25 years ago). Panda eyes are silly and obvious. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 10:14:41 AM
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I've sent my e.mail too. Similar lines to yours MinHe.
One point is that sometimes handlers do use vaseline around the eye and it can give the appearance of being shaved. Also using vaseline over the eye can break the tactile hair, i.e. it snaps off halfway down. This happened to me once and lesson learnt the hard way.
I dumped the vaseline!
If masses is put on it melts in the heat and runs into eyes, try some on your own eyes  horrid!
I have learnt to accept the bridle path but that is as far as I would go.
As for the Part breds they have always been shaved, tactile and all!! it gives a finished look and is the norm I'm afraid. Because they are not classed as a native breed they can be so. My old part bred loved my electric ladyshaver on his muzzle, he would doze of enjoying the humming sound!!
We forget the Arabian is 'breed' and classed similar to the natives.
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 10:27:18 AM
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| Wholeheartedly agree with Louise and Lanabanana.... The removal of tactile hair is so wrong.No matter what the breed. |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 12:09:59 PM
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I would love to know WHAT BENEFIT there is to shaving the hair off above the eye of an Arab horse???? Am I missing something????
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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Zarena
Bronze Member
189 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 1:33:03 PM
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| There isn't any benefit as such except cosmetically. It enhances the eye but it certainly doesn't do any harm. I agree with Louise that shaving tactile hairs off part-breds is far more worthwhile as a Facebook crusade. This is something detrimental to the horses' natural behaviour. |
South Shropshire |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 2:29:24 PM
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Unfortunately, there is no international ruling body as far as AA/PBAs go that has enough 'clout' to enforce such a change. I too disagree with removing the tactile hairs etc, but unfortunately as long as it is the norm in the WIDER equestrian community people will be inclined to 'go with the flow' rather than receive adverse reactions from judges. If you want to campaign against removal of tactile hair on ALL breeds, then surely H&H is a more effective forum than just one little breed-specific list?
The 'panda-eye' issue arose due to an ECAHO ruling banning them that came under review, and still needs people's support at this stage. Please don't let a problem we CAN do something about on AL get buried by responses to a situation we cannot tackle alone.
If you are against 'panda eyes', PLEASE email Willy Luder. I had a very nice and supportive response from him today, which proves that our contributions ARE making a difference!
Keren |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 2:37:27 PM
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| None of my part-breds or my Anglo have had tactile hairs removed as I think it is totally unnecessary, and I know that I am not alone in this. Neither have they had their ears shaved - just trimmed around the edges with scissors - for the same reason. This did not prevent their being shown successfully with both PBA mares attaining AHS Premium status on the basis of their competition successes. |
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 2:44:13 PM
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To clip a bald panda eye is crazy I agree. When clipping a horses head I would just take it a little shorter around the eye and add some oil or sheen for effect.
Stunning for pictures!
Most in hand arabians are clipped for showing. I think its professional. However, to take it to an extreme is not, against rules and looks awful.
To show an arabian naturally it would be sporting feathers and cat hairs. This is not a good look! |
jbassindale |
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leiat8
Gold Member
590 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 3:13:44 PM
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totally agree with you justine  |
     
Casper, Hannah, Hector, Bracken, Fargo |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 3:45:39 PM
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I totally agree with Louise, and am also 'pashonate' ( ) about tactile hair being left on partbreds, non arabs etc. But as there is no ruling body for partbreds lets just forget all about it shall we and jump on the people who shave above the eye. For the record I don't like it, but it doesnt do the horse any harm.................not like removing a partbreds feelers/ear protection!!!!! And as said before, yanking its hair out at the roots.............so kind and pain free. And the fact that it has been done for a zillion years doesnt make it right.............. Judges can change that.
If people stop following the fashion, we wouldnt have these problems now would we. It seems to me that as soon as a horse is a half blood (of whatever breed) it loses its rights/status of the breed society it is registered to. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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Susie T
Silver Member
257 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 3:48:37 PM
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| I presumed that the previous owners of my mare - Khatreena, had shaved around her eyes and muzzle to make them look black for the sales advert pictures which still appear on the Sales banner on this site. Her face was totally orange in the winter when I bought her. However, now summer is here, her hair has thinned out completely round her eyes and muzzle and her black skin shows through just like in the sales picture. I hope people would believe I hadn't shaved her if I was to show her! |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 6:34:49 PM
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| Just because something else is wrong doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change what we can. It is abhorrent to remove tactile hair from any horse, but it is widespread, long standing and is a completely different issue from the Arab only fashion for shaving out panda eyes. Panda eyes look hideous and comical and do not enhance the horse's appearance as the naturally fine hair with dark skin shining through on a good Arab does. I am glad they have banned it and have emailed my thoughts on the matter so the ban remains. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2010 : 10:32:54 PM
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Removing tactile hairs is cruel; they are there for a reason. The horse uses them as feelers so that it doesn't bang it's muzzle and/or eyes. Horses literally can't see what is at the end of their noses so the whiskers tell them the level of the water in the bucket/exactly where the fence is etc. The tactile hairs (doesn't that tell you what they are for!) around the eyes stop the horse from banging his eyes on things. When we want to eat, drink, lie down, get up etc in the dark we switch the lights on; the horse can't do that. There is no way I would ever remove the tactile hairs from my horses's faces.
Barbara |
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arabiantouch
Gold Member
England
590 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2010 : 12:54:43 AM
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| a well done to those that do not remove the tactile on the part breds there are also us on the purebreds that are against the ruling of all tactiles being removed. i use make up to enhance my clients horse features not disguise and certinly no tactiles or hair is removed, actually as alot of horses are having a more natural life they lose the hair around the muzzle and the eye area whilst out in the field. 100% supporting the natural look we all desire. |
louise,xxx
International freelance trainer
louisebrian@hotmail.co.uk
www.arabiantouchshowtraining.co.uk |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2010 : 08:47:28 AM
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Ummm did someone say tactile hair??
All joking aside, I so agree that our Partbreds and Anglos should have their whiskers left on. My old chap used to bump himself after I had shaved him, no fun is it? When you are starting out with one partbred you go along with what has been the norm and coming from an older generation it is drummed into you from Pony club days to be correctly suited and booted! this applies to your horse too.
My little chap above will always enjoy his beard!! |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2010 : 09:04:54 AM
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eye shaving started as a way to make horse with smaller eyes appear bigger, then it got to be well lets make horses with a big eye look Even bigger still ! got so really silly, and the look is not attractive to me anyway, here is an example of a beautiful horse ( Sasaki) made to look ridiculous when he went to the Midwest training centre.
, and below how he was naturally, no contest I would say!
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2010 : 10:11:55 AM
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Have to agree there.....just how silly does he look with those shaved Panda eyes...what a mockery which no way enhances his already beautiful large eye...and how super, the natural look
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Anti Panda Eyes.....
