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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 2:42:46 PM
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Hello Pop 
Nice to 'see' you again and even nicer to see we agree, no pistols at dawn today  xx |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 2:53:31 PM
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| :), now who is that in your second picture along, looks very interesting? |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 3:10:24 PM
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Ahhhhh I feel a group is in order |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 4:04:33 PM
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That is my beautiful (I am biased of course) 8 year old homebred mare PAS Sinderella (Psyches Image R x Safi Amira (1st photo)) or Angel as she is known by at home
She is 15'1/15'2 'ish', well built and I still wouldn't put 18 stone on her 
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 4:34:08 PM
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HI, Im a small arabian breeder. My Nieces have show ponies. One Niece is 11 stone tall and not an once of fat. The 12.2 ponies have no problem when she rides them (jockey is 8yrs old!)
You can see my Ali Jamaal mare on `FOR SALE` she is 14.1 Im 11 stone and would not hesitate to ride her if she was broken. She is short and strong.
I have seen 17.2`s that are weak in the back and look like 11 stone would break them.
It all depends on conformation. Arabians are dence in bone and stronger than we think. |
jbassindale |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 09:56:05 AM
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Angel2002, she looks stunning  .
My 14.3 cob was a much much better weight carrier than my sisters 16.2 TB, and my 14.1 Arab x Section B has happily carried 10stone, and Arabs are good weight carriers, but 18 stone !!!!!! It just seems too much. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 12:58:14 PM
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Aw thank you Pop  I think she is just scrummy, Angel by name and Angel by nature
I totally agree that some small cobs are better weight carriers than thoroughbreds. A friend of mine used a lot of cobs in her riding school, only had one 16.3 thoroughbred and he never had anyone on him over 14 stone from what I remember yet the 17'2 hanovarian was a good weight carrier, big well built boy, deep chest and lots of bone.
Never did we put anyone on a pony/horse that they simply looked too big for once on board
Sorry Justine, I wouldn't put 11 stone on a 12'2 show pony.... |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 4:02:04 PM
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Fidodido, you say there are exceptions to every rule, but surely you have it the wrong way round. The exception should be the arab who is NOT capable of carrying over 12stone, not the other way round. And I still don't understand why you have this top limit of 12stone in your head  |
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Alphamare
New Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 4:14:52 PM
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| Isnt there some old rule of one stone per hand of height? |
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fidodido
Gold Member
England
797 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 7:22:39 PM
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For fear of repeating myself again and this is the last time. I would not wish to put more than 12 stone on an arab because from my personal experience it does not make for a very pleasing picture, and quite frankly i think it is more than enough weight for a light breed type of horse to carry regardless of density of bone and what someone else did hundreds of years ago.
I don't understand why anyone would want there horse to carry large weights just to prove a point, but each to their own and we will have to agree to disagree on this because life is why to short to keep repeating yourself, and answering the same question.
Angie |
Edited by - fidodido on 03 Jun 2010 7:24:27 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 8:59:29 PM
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I will ask this question -
Do you really think that a 15-18 stone rider would look good on small arab, say 14'1-14'3 ??
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 9:12:55 PM
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| I don't think anyone has said that putting a 15-18 stone rider on a 14.1 - 14.3 hh arab would look good or be adviseable (or have I missed something?), it is just that people are making the point that a well built arab can carry more and do a lot more than a lot of people give them credit for, and surely that is a good thing? Otherwise you are underselling a very capable breed that is all too often written off as a pretty toy by a large sector of the horse world. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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fidodido
Gold Member
England
797 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 9:28:49 PM
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I certainly wouldn't underestimate the capability of an arab and am quite sure that they would carry much heavier weights than i would personally prefer for them to carry, but there is nothing worse than seeing a large person looking very under horsed JMO.
As for people who don't like arabs and think they are a toy, they are the sort of people who will never like them and are probably better off not owning one. I have never liked coloured cobs and wouldn't own one if you payed me, but i'm sure that it would't make a jot of difference to all those people who own one and love them.
Angie. |
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 9:50:59 PM
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| I think then Fidodido that you must have a rather limited experience, as there are numerous show winning arabs who have carried more weight than 12stone and have presented a very pleasing picture. Being lightweight does not necessarily mean that you will make a pleasant picture on the back of your horse. Being in balance with your horse is a lot more important to his well being and ability to carry you than merely counting the pounds/kilos on his back.The traditional conformation of an arab means he is eminently well suited to carrying a lot more weight EASILY than you would give him credit for. I would say that all of the arabs I have owned have had approxiametly the same weight carrying ability as a Welsh cob section D. So please stop doing the arab a disservice by inferring that only the exceptional one is capable of carrying over 12stone. You are, IMO absolutely wrong |
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Alphamare
New Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 10:06:14 PM
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I myself am heavier rider at 14 stone (and a size 14 i am mostly muscle so i dont think i look fat... or under horsed) my girl is 15'2 it is a height i prefer. I have put as much as 16 stone on her which she copes with fine for hacks and stuff. My friend who is 16stone is a size 16 and very fit... so not exactly a two tone tessie just a big (rugby playing girl)
I think the thing is that there are a lot of bigger people who are not necessarily fat (men included) who would be instantly excluded from riding an arab if they too believed arabs were not up to carrying weight.
my last arab was 14'3 and i looked fine on him too.
For most horses i believe the rule is 25-30% for hacking and 20-25% for heavy work such as endurance or competition or jumping. For a 1000lb horse the weight limit is then 200-300lbs.
Not that i would put 300lbs on one
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 11:08:42 AM
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Oh well, I was trying to find a way to put this nicely but can't find the right words..... So as usual I will say it as it is 
A lardy person of 15-18 stone, good rider or not would not look as good on a small arab as someone of the same height weighing a lot less, and regardless of what you believe the horse does suffer carrying these kinds of extreme weight. I have proof of this, my 15hh arab felt like a new horse to ride once I shifted 4 stone of fat!!! 
I do not disagree that Arabs have a 'reputation' for being weight carriers but is it not more likely based on a lighter rider? Would the extra ability they have be from being able to carry a lot of extra equipment? What ever the answer our arabs ability should not be abused by having the weight of a big hefty rider on board who makes them look like a shetland pony!
Annette - I think your comments to Angie are out of order, perhaps you are the one with limited experience thinking it is fine and dandy to put excessive weights on an Arab! Just my opinion of course
Alphamare - 14 stone plus saddle is around 15 stone, again just my opinion, I would not put that weight on my 14'3 mare. As for your other mare you are not putting 16 stone on her when your friend rides her, it is 17 STONE when you add the saddle etc  and that is assuming that your friend is a 'light balanced' rider....
Linda - I know that an arab is supposed to carry more than most other breeds in relation to its size BUT does that justify some people putting what I call excessive weights of up to 18 stone on them just because history says Arabs are good weight carriers? |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 11:44:35 AM
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| Angel, if you read my posts I don't think I have advocated putting 18 stone riders on small arabs. I think it is unfortunate that this discussion has become so polarised. I just don't believe that arabs should be seen as only being able to carry riders up to 12 stone. Obviously the lighter the rider the easier it is for their mount, otherwise weights would not be used for handicapping systems. There is a world of difference between a 13/14 stone rider and a 15/18 stone rider. I do not have a personal axe to grind since my mare is 15.3 and I weigh 10.25 stone. With my current saddle this means that if we were to compete under FEI rules at endurance I would have to carry lead to achieve the 75Kg lower weight limit which converts to 11 stone 11.3 lbs, and my mount would have to carry this weight even if it was 14hh, and there are very successful smaller arabs carrying at least that weight for very long distances and passing the vetting at the end. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 04 Jun 2010 11:54:27 AM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 1:15:49 PM
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I didn't say you did Linda, I was just asking a question to get your view
Alison, I am glad my words didn't offend you Best to be honest if you have an opinion but that does have a habit of getting me shot down in flames |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 04 Jun 2010 1:23:01 PM |
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Nichole Waller
Gold Member
England
1168 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 2:26:17 PM
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I found these pics on the Internet...
Darren is definitely over 6 foot and although lighter in these pics he is a little bit heavier now and still rides him regularly.
I'm sure Silvern Rislam is about 14.3hh
The look wonderful don't they
One of the things that worried me about buying Ozzy was that i was going to be too heavy for him. Darren assured me that i wouldn't be (even though i'd described myself to him as looking a bit like humpty dumpty 
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 2:52:11 PM
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Those photos illustrate my point perfectly Nichole, thank youfor posting them. Don't the pair of them look absoltely wonderful?
Angel2002 to ask an arab to carry over 12stone is not expecting him to carry excessive weight when it is well wihin his capability. I would maybe rather carry a bucket with one gallon in it than three, but that does not mean that three is in anyway excessive. Maybe though as you say , I have rather limited experience about all this, as I have only owned arabs for 40years so obviously I haven't a clue what I am talking about 
Incidentally, a "Lardy" person of any weight doesn't look good on anythng be it small/medium/large or a tank of a horse. I have seen 10stones lumps of lards on horseback and it aint a pretty picture either. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 3:39:50 PM
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Lovely pictures Nichole and I believe they beautifully illustrate the point many of us have been trying to make about the abilities of the tough and hardy little arab to carry the larger rider. Obviously you could not call this rider 'lardy' though
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 4:56:51 PM
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My vet advised 12 stone for a 15hh Arab including tack but what would he know
As I said before.... Fitness of HORSE, RIDER and good conformation have to be accounted for as well as the height of rider for the overall picture! You can't say is ok for people to drag an average height, unfit arab out of a field and expect it to carry 14 stone plus for hours just because it has supposed weight carrying abilities and believe you me there are people out there that think this is EXACTLY what they can do!!
Annette, for someone with 40 years of experience in owning arabs (I am a bit behind you on 24 ) I can't believe that you fail to see what is being said here.... I don't understand why you could think that someone, who lets say is 16 stone and about 5'9/5'10, would look good riding a 14.1 arab????? Surely the welfare of the horse has to come into this and if honest these people would be better off riding a heavier type breed?
I have no problem with larger built people wanting to ride as long as they choose a breed of horse which is comparative with their height and weight.
You don't see the local Huntsman riding a section A now do you |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 5:12:44 PM
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[right]Originally posted by angel2002
My vet advised 12 stone for a 15hh Arab including tack but what would he know
Actually there aren't many vets whose advice concerning horses that I would trust, even so called 'horse' vets - Unfortunately I have found out the limits to their knowledge the hard way
I think this topic has reached an impasse now.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 04 Jun 2010 5:15:04 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 8:44:46 PM
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Totally agree with you about this topic Linda, we shall all have to agree to disagree As for my vet he is also a very well respected horse owner and competitor who has never failed me yet (touch wood!), perhaps I have just been lucky
End of the day I am sure we all have the best interests of our Arabs at heart, whatever weight we put on them is entirely each owners choice
Must finish by saying Darren and Rissalm look a perfect picture, as you can SEE he does not look to big for his horse in height or weight
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Weight carrying?
