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navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:06:13 AM
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Ive found myself in a rather awkward situation regarding a horse we recently took on, she was free to good home/permanent loan, which ever you would like to call it, though no loan contract has been drawn up.
Its all very complicated & long winded, so i will try & keep it as brief as possible, it involves 3 other people, for arguments sake i shall call them A, B & C, A is the original owner, B owned said horse between A & C, who is the person ive had the horse from...hope that made sense?
I'll be blunt, the horse was in an appalling state when we took her on from C, they had had her 6 weeks & had apparently rescued her from B, ive since spoken to B who has said she was a mess when she had her from A, but since she has been with C she is in a an even worse state.
Anyway, ill be here all day at this rate, the general jist of this story is not one person will hold there hands up & admit to being responsible for the state this mare is in & they all blame each other. Now here is my problem, we took the mare on on the understanding she had no illness's or vices & and that once back to her full weight she would be fine to ride. It has now come to light that the mare has navicular, she is extremely spooky out riding & you can not leave her alone at all or she goes nuts, she is also at present unsound. Since she has been with me a week & a half she has piled on the pounds & is looking ALOT better. The thing is how would you feel giving the horse back to someone who is potentially guilty of neglect? It doesnt sit comfortably with me, but neither can i afford to keep another horse who is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I keep saying i need to stop being so sentimental, but its not how i am. I really dont know who to believe with all the different stories ive been told, its like an episode of Eastenders!
Anyway, the point of my post is what would you do? Do you hold on to a horse that isnt really any good or do you be brutal & hand it back & hope to god your doing the right thing? Im so confused!
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:11:37 AM
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| Really brutal? Hand her back. I do feel for you (and poor horse) though. |
   
West Sussex |
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navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:16:00 AM
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| Thanks Arachnid, i just feel for the poor mare, shes had 4 homes since christmas & no one wants to take any responsibility for her, i just cant but help wonder what we would be sending her back to. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:20:56 AM
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sorry , but the innocent in all this is the poor horse who has been pushed from piller to post through no fault of her own handing her back is knowing she will end up in a tin of dog meat. give her to someone as a companion , it is so distressing to hear how these poor horses end their lives. |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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rhoni
Gold Member
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:25:27 AM
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| Rehome to a charity, anything, but please don't send her back to those awful people!!!!!!! |
Edited by - rhoni on 29 Apr 2010 10:26:16 AM |
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navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:28:20 AM
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| The trouble is Lyndilou is i cant just give to someone as a companion ,she is meant to be on loan to me, though the ad was worded free to good home. And you have hit the nail on the head, it is the poor mare who is suffering (though she is safe & happy at the moment) which is why i put this post up, im not a horrible person & im finding this situation very difficult to be in |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:31:24 AM
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| I am with Rhoni. Why would they want her back if neither of them cared enough before? Put her up for rehoming on AL or to a rehoming centre. |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:38:30 AM
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Surely only one of them can legally own this horse???
If she was free to a good home, then get the owner to sign a document to say so....
Tell them anything to persuade them to do so. i.e expensive treatment for navicular, can't be ridden, vet is aware of her condition from day 1 and is prepared to give a report (save this one as a last resort) - say anything!
If it was permanent loan then that is different and you could have a problem... but it's still worth trying to get them to sign her over.
Then you try and give her to a charity.
If it were me, I couldn't give her back
Good luck. |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:39:55 AM
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| Just a thought, have you still got a copy of the ad? Keep it if you have..... |
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Ruth_Cymru
Bronze Member
Wales
90 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:44:52 AM
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| I think you first need to find out whether she is on loan to you, or whether you actually now own her as that doesn't seem to be too clear. You can't try to find her a new home until she is 100% legally yours. If and when she is legally yours I would try to find someone who is looking for a companion horse. If the previous owner won't sign her over to you, then I'm afraid you either have to keep her, or sadly give her back. |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:59:55 AM
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I have found with horses I have either bought or regarding the two I took on as rescues that they do not settle in a few weeks, in fact, Anna when I got her was a raving loony, box walking, she still weaves, and no way could I leave her in her box on her own. I have the holes in the wooden stables to prove it, also she went through fencing more than once due to either racing around or when I first got her I put her in the field next to the others to see what she was like..... bad mistake, she went nuts and into the fencing! So my point is she's been neglected, pushed from pillar to post and as we all know Arabs hate moving homes, so she will be very unsettled for a while.
Regarding the navicular...get a barefoot farrier before going down expensive treatment. They know the working of the foot far better than vets or traditional farriers. I'm talking about one trained by Jamie Jackson or along those lines. Jamie Jackson was a traditional farrier for years, and he started the barefoot movement, so knows his horses so to speak. If you need a contact pm me but please do not send her back to either of the people you're mentioning.
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kate b
Gold Member
Wales
1418 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:32:19 AM
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Ask A,B and C to sign a document making you the legal owner - tell them if they are all part owners they will be partly responsible for any treatment she will need for the Navicular..... I am sure they will be more than happy to wash their hands of her if they have to put their hands in their pockets for vet bills....
Once you have legal ownership you can then start looking for a lovely permenant home for her.
Good luck, a difficult position to be in, but I am sure you will do whats right for the mare.
Kate
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:40:17 AM
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| Agree with everybody else, you do need to establish ownership before doing anything, if they won't hand her over then you have to make a choice which isn't very easy, either keep her or hand her back |
Berkshire
   
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:46:45 AM
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The trouble is the financial climate. Lots of you it seems are struggling to sell your beautiful, sound,well bred, well handled and well fed horses. If you loan out a horse that you know is unsound and not all that easy to handle, what is to stop her ending up somewhere like Spindles' Farm? What kind of future can this poor horse reasonably expect? (Am I being too gloomy?) Quite different if you have your own land and endless budget and can happily afford a pretty but unrideable horse for which you are not strictly responsible. The owners need to face up to their responsibilities.
Oh dear will I have to leave the forum? |
West Sussex |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:59:57 AM
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I know you are not an unkind person  , and you have the mare safely with you, so please dont give her back, if she is free to a good home , then she is yours, find her a place where she will be safe, there are lots of people wanting companion horses , there is one advertising here for one on the wanted pages  |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:03:05 PM
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no arachnid , you will NEVER have to leave this forum for speaking your mind , and you have put a very responsible argument forward, but sending her back to her owners is not the right thing to do for this poor soul |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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rhoni
Gold Member
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:13:46 PM
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| The problem, surely Arachnid, is that the owners have quite obviously totally failed to live up to their responsibilities and poor Navaho621 has a conscience! Quite honestly the mare would be better off PTS than sent back when it's obvious that not one of her (possible) owners has done anything other than starve her and punt her on to some poor genuine unsuspecting individual :( |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:29:43 PM
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It may help your case if you get a veterinary report and prognosis, along with cost of treatment which is necessary for the navicular
Faced with this, the formerly irresponsible owners, be it A,B and C, or all of them, may well be only too happy to sign over ownership. Once you have that info in writing, you are then able to make the right decision for this poor unfortunate mare.
Please, please do not hand her back to any one of these neglectful folk!! If all else fails and you are unable to place her in a forever home and Blue Cross or similar, are reluctant to take her due to her unsoundness and other problems......the kindest decision would be to give her the Summer lots of TLC and then PTS. Hard decision, but the most responsible and you will have the peace of mind knowing she will never be neglected or pushed from pillar to post, ever again.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 29 Apr 2010 12:32:55 PM |
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Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:41:06 PM
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I have to agree with Rhoni, I don't post very often but having read how difficult it is to find good homes for easy going straight-forward horses I think you are going to find it difficult to find someone to take on the mare if you can establish that she is legally yours.
Companion horses are meant to be just that - companions  . They are supposed to keep your horses company so they are not left on their own, they should not be ones that take up ALL of your time so you don't have time to ride or are a liability to either themselves, other horses or other people.
Speaking from experience (I got conned into buying a completely deranged horse who regularly tried to attack me & other horses) I can honestly say that the best decision I made was to have Indi PTS, despite all the abusive phone calls from complete strangers and having to leave a fantastic livery yard due to bigoted, small minded opinions of a few people.
I have been able to rest easy knowing that his erratic and unpredictable behaviour will not put anyone else in danger, he will not be passed from pillar to post, that he will never be mistreated or abused again and that he had 6 months with me (the longest time he had spent in a home in 3yrs due to the aggressive behaviour)eating his head off and finally, a dignified end.
It may seem harsh but then reality is. It would be lovely if you could find the perfect home for her but the reality is they are very,very hard to find. With the best will in the world people will take on a challenge and, more often than not, find that their ego was bigger than their experience which is what happened with Indi.
I wish you well, and hope for the mares sake that it can all be resolved with her best interests at heart.
Big hugs to you as I know how tough a decision it is and all credit to you for taking the mare on in the first place.
Lucy |
Edited by - Crusaders Angel on 29 Apr 2010 12:45:47 PM |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:48:41 PM
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I just wanted to say that I completely agree that if the only choice was to send her back to A, B or C, then she would be better off PTS as sad as it is.....
A,B & C are clearly not up to the job of looking after a stuffed toy, let alone an animal. |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:18:55 PM
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I might be a bit brutal... but I would say if she was free to good home, then she should be yours... however I would not try to re home this poor mare.. I would get her PTS... My mares has always been PTS (well not true but sounds less harsh the shooting them) when they got too old, or got very poorly... even though I had people wanting to re home several times, and many wanted the last one, but she still ended her days before the cold weather came only 20 years old.
There is so many horses free to good home, that end up having a terrible old age... and this mare sounds like she was got high odds of ending in the wrong home. |
www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians
Worcester based
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:27:52 PM
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| Great advice above, establish ownership. Its tough, but she was supposedly loaned to you for life (for better or worse) and you'd just become 'D' in this story if you returned her, carrying on the sorry loop, of passing her on. I know you're not a harsh person or you wouldn't have posted, it is a dilemma, but, if you returned her, could you sleep at night knowing what you do about A B and C? It's very tough and I feel for you, but handing her back wouldn't be 'doing the right thing'. |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:33:35 PM
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Theres nothing to say that people who wont spend money on horse feed wont spend money on lawyers and I suspect that you may be in trouble if you have someone else's horse destroyed. Can you imagine the 'loan home gone wrong posts'? You are all right of course, proof of ownership is the key.
PS thanks for not shooting me down people even though I dont agree with you |
West Sussex |
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littlearabians
Gold Member
1323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:44:53 PM
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| I wouldn't have the mare PTS before the ownership was sorted, but surely you cant offer a horse free to good home, and then say it was just a loan... in my world its 2 very different things! |
www.littlearabians.com
Classic Polish Arabians
Worcester based
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:48:23 PM
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What an awful situation to be in!
I agree with what a few others have said - she would be better off PTS than face an uncertain future! Poor little mare x |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 2:02:02 PM
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I would suggest you talk to HAPPA, they will probably be able to advise you on how you should proceed and will probably take the mare in once the legalities have been sorted.
Keren |
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In a difficult situation
