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Jamana
Gold Member
 England
682 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 10:06:46 PM
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Following on from Angelarab's post about her filly who cut herself a month ago I have staarted despairing about my TB mare.
Back in oct she was startled by some deer jumping into her field. She galloped at full tilt up throught the field, straight throught the top fence (post and rail), straight through the chicken run (electrified netting) down the lane where she flipped over and slid 150yds on her back with legs straight up in the air, staggered to her feet fll against the field fence and fell over hitting her head on a fence post and momentarily knocking herself our, crased into feild fence on other side, staggered back throug fence into another field hitting her head so hard she snapped the round post. nad continued careering around that field until OH and I managed to catch her. She had blood coming from all over her face and legs. OH had witnessed the whole thing and had phoned me to get me home quickly to help him.
Long story short, she had
*ripped half her top lip off,
*grazed her gums from sliding on her face,
*had pucnture wounds and friction burns on her withers from slidding along on her back in her rug and getting gravel underneath
*Cut her fetlock on the off side
puncture wound on near side fetlock down to tendon
* Skinned her near cannon and nicked her tendon.
*broken her nasal bone
Here we are in January and all cuts and bones have healed EXCEPT the near side cannon. Which has partailly healed and then produced copious amounts of proud flesh each time we felt we were getting somewhere.
Here is a pic from about 3 wks ago one bandage change after having the pround flesh cut back a second time (slightly distorted as I was holding her when I took pic)
Now the middle of the wound has opened as apparently the tissue has granulated in some parts to the tendon (where it was nicked) and as she moves it pulls apart
last bandage change on Friday. (hadn't been cleaned off in this one, just as the bandage came off)
Compared to Angelarabs filly we are way behind, esp as her filly is 4/5 weeks from injury and ours is about 15 We think (hope) we are now on top of the proud flesh but the treatment for that slows the skin cells so it is a catch-22 situation Also she now has a pressure sore on the back from all the pressure bandages neede for proud flesh.
The irony is that she retired from racing in June as a 5yo having raced 32 times with not a mark on her!
But will it ever heal?????????
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Edited by - Jamana on 30 Jan 2010 1:45:51 PM
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 10:37:58 PM
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Oh dear - what a pickle. TBs will just RUN won't they?
(Angel's horse is gelding, she just makes him wear lilac!)
It will heal, it's just so frustrating that horses heal like crazy and then slow to almost nothing. You will probably find that you have to trim it back 3 or 4 more times to keep the process going. It's a hard area too as it's skin over bone, not much flesh. Just keep going. As for the pressure mark - can you bandage with a stable wrap (wadding) as the padding? |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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Nerusa
Bronze Member
Scotland
160 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 10:49:43 PM
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I have to say, I've never heard of such an extreme reaction to deer appearing in the field, your poor mare! And your poor OH witnessing all that, what a shock for him especially that you weren't there.
Those injuries sound dreadful and it is obviously down to your girl's strong will that she has mended from most of them. In the case of proud flesh, there are many ways of treating it. For the wound itself, discuss with your vet the use of copper sulphate crystals - I have used these with great success.
I must admit that I thought a pressure bandage was for short-term use only and should not be left on for more than 2 hours at a time. After this amount of time, would your vet not recommend leaving it uncovered for a few hours a day??? And then bandage lightly if need be??? |
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 08:16:00 AM
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I am sending you a huge hug, you won't belive how down i got with Baz's kick wound it happend on 28th October and although it has healed i am still stable bandaging to help stablise the scar tissue lump he has it's been a long almost 3 months now..stay strong and keep us posted  Angel and Baz, the puple fairy!!x |
 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 08:38:54 AM
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Same problem i have with my boy as he rips his skin open where you can see the bones  but now all healed up BUT still got proud flesh which i now using FUDIDERM GEL cream to repair new skin (advised by the vet)its looking better but hoping proud flesh will go as seems long time to heal it.vet said have to keep it banadges up till full healed up otherwise wiill be lumps with dry skin. Would be interested to hear what you use that have got rid of it with hardly or no scars |
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rhoni
Gold Member
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 09:04:40 AM
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Please don't do anything other than what you're doing with the leg! Buffy's injuries were also from last October and until very recently the bad wound on her good leg was doing all of this - the split in the middle included. It's only been in the past week that the vet has been happier with it - at one point very recently the granulation tissue was a nasty sickly grey colour. Late last week on her latest dressing change it has started to look much healthier. I think its way too early (in terms of where it is in its healing process rather than the length of time, if you see what I mean) to start leaving the dressings off or putting copper sulphate on it. Buffy's equivalent wound is still being simply washed out and then pressure dressed for 12 days at a time and has only finally started to turn a corner. It can be soul destroying just waiting but she will get there! If you want any more details about Buffy's wound or regime let me know. Well done for all you have got through with her, she is a very lucky girl.
This is Buffy's leg at a recent dressing change - you can see a dimple just up from the middle where it was splitting.
Two weeks ago it looked very similar to your girl's before clean-up. Exhausting, isn't it?! However, when you think that 6 weeks ago we could still see bits of necrotic tendon it's not doing so badly.... |
Edited by - rhoni on 19 Jan 2010 09:10:23 AM |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 09:18:05 AM
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A friend of mine has an AA mare who had a really bad injury to a hind leg (well, both hinds actually but one healed quickly) - a year down the line she still hasn't healed. She is using Manuka honey on it now, as there is no risk of flies, and it's finally starting to heal over really well. You just have to be very, very patient. I'd speak to your vet and see if there's anything else you can try that might make a difference, too. I know my friend started feeding her mare echinacea which has probably helped, too.
Hope you start to see a big improvement soon. |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 09:58:17 AM
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The only other thing I can add to the conversation is that I have had great success with vitamin E (just cut a capsule and squeeze out the oil, or you can get it in little bottles from health food shops) on the new skin as it grows in round the edge. It helps to keep it supple and normal skin rather than "scar". Was a brilliant tip for my facial lacerations and has worked a treat on various horse injuries too. As Rhoni has said, this is a very demoralising stage of the process.
All the best
Rowena |
  
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 1:38:07 PM
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| you look like you are all doing a great job and it would be alot easier if you would be able to do the dressing changing your self as you can do it alot more often and is cheaper. But on my experience i find chnaging the bandage every 2 days 3 at most was the quickest and best way for healing as you can keep fresh cream on it and keep the pressure on to keep down proud flesh. and also applying pressure only with the under bandage keeping the dressing on over the wound area only. And then the top bandage is loose and if you get elastoplast stick one thick layer to the leg and then stick the bandage top to that with more elastoplast it will keep it up just thinking on the pressure sores Also have you tried dermisol cream it is really good for getting rid of proud flesh and found it greatly reduced healing time when we used it last summer with a large wound as helped keep proud flesh down and promoted rapid healing and not that exensive. We also found when getting nearly to the end that if you think the healing has slowed right down and not doing too much we applied aloe vera and it got it moist and healing again. We also found that if the bandage had of been on for three days over weekend that the cut was a grey colour like you are saying with buffy but cleaned up changed two days later and it was kept away |
Edited by - xsara on 19 Jan 2010 1:42:44 PM |
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rhoni
Gold Member
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 1:49:54 PM
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 Latterly with the rest of the wounds on Buffy that were dressed more frequently or left undressed we alternated dermisol, aloe, and manuka honey! Seemed to work anyway, all but the big wound below the hock I posted the picture of are nearly healed - scarred due to the level of damage, but not proud. |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 2:03:10 PM
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here is the two we had last summer the first was a yearling went through the vets the first picture is when he came back from vets with him having him for 2 weeks the second picture shows after two bandages to clean it as not too easily worked with and then treated with just dermisol cream with no bandaging it was about a week later he was out to grass with in teo weeks and healed with hardly any scar
week later
this is the other one that was bad it was well into healing and about 4 weeks before he went back out to grass
will try and find some pictures of the original injury vet thought it would take a year to heal
one of it about two weeks before we got the bandage of
here is the original injury
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Edited by - xsara on 19 Jan 2010 2:12:20 PM |
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bexr
Gold Member
England
818 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 5:09:06 PM
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| Jamana, we are also going through this process with our filly, she did her injury just 3 weeks ago, everyone has been so helpful( except the her ladyship) who decided to bit off all the granulation that had occured over her bone yesterday. It will heal but some take longer than others. Sandra( buffy) gave me a number for someone with a brilliant cream. I'm sure if you PM her she'll give it to you. |
Bex |
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rasaljadi
Bronze Member
England
78 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 6:37:14 PM
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| My Friend makes a solution which she supplys to a vet so its very good, i had a mare last year who ripped her leg her tendon bone was visable pretty much like the last picture in this thread, i used the oil and the results were amazing it is applied twice a day and it stops any proud flesh growing as it scabs you remove them and keep appling the oil, then eventually you get pink new skin round the outside and after time the scar becomes smaller and smaller it took 9 months of appling the oil but now the results you wouldn't believe, she has a small needle line and thats all she has been left with, amazing. It really is magic oil, if anyone would like her number i will email you and she will post you one, i think its approx £12.00, i always have a bottle at home now. |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 7:39:17 PM
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Thank you so much for all of your replies
But firstly I must appologise to Angelarab and Baz about the sex change  I think I got muddked with baz and his injury and Bexr's filly and hers. but re-reading my original poat and all of the horrible spelling errors I am not sure that the couple of glasses of wine were helping much so sorry everyone!
It is encouraging to see other people have had similar experiences and got the horses over them. It is just taking so long. The poor mare has been in on box rest since it happened and is throughly fed up and groucy now. We have been lucky in that there has never been any infection and all of the wounds have been clean. It is interesting that Xsara recommends changing the dressing more regulary to help it heal, currently she is changed every 5th day (we do do it ourselves, vet bill enormous enough already ) and the Vet looks at it every 3rd or 4th change. We are using a 50/50 mix of Fuciderm and Intrasite to try and minimise the proud flesh but still encourage healing. I am tempeted to stop the Fuciderm as it does slow down the skin cells but last time she stopped having it the proud flesh went mad.
The mare herself makes the whole thing so much harder as she is a nightmare to bandage at times.  Her favourite (and very effective)way of avoiding it is to throw herself down on her knees just as you are about to put on the new pad. That does not help!!! She fights like hell under the sedation and as far as twitching or holding her she knows every trick in the book and is ready for you! The first lot of dressings we had she collased and contaminated 2 pads with cream and kicked the hibiscrub over the bag of spares 
We tried manuka honey, that was what she had on the first day immediatly after the accident, and again about a month ago but it seemed to encourage the granulation so we are back to the Fuciderm.
We are up against it timewise as we need to get her to stud in Ireland asap really. She was intended to go around the first week in february ready for the start of the season. But now we are not even sure if we can get her there at all. Even more annoyingly she is in season now and would have been ready for a first cover right at he start of the season on 14 feb  We are hoping that,subject to vet advice and the stud being ok about it, she can still go across even with the bandage on and contiue to be treated by their vets but at least they can cover her if she is ready. Plus the fact the Vets there are more switched on than our lot down here As OH says, at least then he doesn't have to look at her!!!!
I will ask the Vet about Dermisol cream as we are finding, like taranstorm, the fuciderm does slow it all down.
Once again thank you for your replies and PM's, any advice is very welcome
Helen |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 8:39:59 PM
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| Jamana it is the intrasite gel which is causing the proud flesh and i would take her of that derma gel is very good for keeping it moist which we mix with the dermisol but the intraite gel is designed to encourage the granulation tissue to fill in wounds but once they are flush it keeps encouraging and promotes proud flesh we made the exact same mistake with our yearling filly our first wound we managed and it was a phsio that pointed it out and now we know so i would stop using that plus it is very expensive. It takes time for wounds to heal and some vets are good at it others are not. We learnt alot from our vet we used to use but have changed and the new vets wound management is very bad. the horse which did his back leg went to his for a couple of weeks till he got the dead skin cut away and tryed to stitch what her could then tryed to burn it to seal it, he then told us that it wasn't able to be bandage as it wouldn't stay up lol he didnt even have any bandage stuff in we had to go to our old vet for the supplies lol. And the yearling put some silver spray on it and left him in the field hence why it looked so bad. It is interesting to hear other peoples ways they have found to work |
Edited by - xsara on 19 Jan 2010 8:49:24 PM |
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 8:44:26 PM
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we made the same mistake with our first filly who did an identicle wound as your filly but higher up the knee, followed full vets advice all the way through and took around 4 months to heal, he recommended intrasite gel and daily bandage changes and cut back once a week. Then my coloured filly she cut the inside of her knee to the top of the cannon severated her tendon completely, scraped the bone and the vet took three hours delicately stitching it all back up but being the knee and alot of pressure it opened it eventually slightly and looked a mess and she came out and glanced at it and recommended we took all the bandages off and use dermisol our first encounter and we were amazed with in a week the wound was completely healed and the scare was minimal. since then we have used dermisol with great results for every type of wound, much cheaper than the intrasite which is designed to encourage proud flesh, so more for deep wounds where the dermisol is designed to eat away at the proud flesh and promote healing so more for the type of wound you have. i dare say if you use the dermisol cream and bandage every 2 days you won;t need any more vet calls for cutting back proud flesh and your wound would be healed in a matter of weeks. and i think its about 8.00 and can be ordered online.
these aren't as graphic
this was before the stitches opened
this is before dermisol was applied gizzy had ate off all the proud flesh
here it is after a week of dermisol
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Edited by - honey on 19 Jan 2010 8:53:15 PM |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 9:03:47 PM
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My old mare Perissa ripped a piece of skin off her hind cannon which looked just like your mare Jamana, and like her she had to have the proud flesh removed. But it just wouldn't heal. Then a new vet joined the surgery and he suggested that I scrub the wound with mild hibbiscrub and wait for it..... a green scouring pad - yep like you use for washing the dishes. After scrubbing apply liberal intrasite gel and apply a non absorbant dressing - no pressure banadaging. At first I had to do this twice a day until I drew blood, I can't remember how long it was for, maybe 2-4 days, then go down to once a day, then every other day. It healed beautifully with hardly a scar!
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carla lala
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
116 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 10:18:57 PM
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Hi all , I too am dealing with a cut knee , was nasty , but not as bad as the poor horses above, Stupid part bred , cut her knee quite bad while in because of the snow ! The proud flesh is being treated with the steroid cream from vet , am now using my mate's laser pen , on the outside of the wound twice a day for 5 minuets , this encourages the cells to regenerate and speeds the healing from outside. That's the theory and does seem to be having an effect !  It does get you down the bandaging , this is our 3rd serious leg cut in her 3.5 years . Swear the filly is doing all in her power to prevent a show career
Speedy healing ! Jacky |
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Edited by - carla lala on 19 Jan 2010 10:20:52 PM |
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Sirius
Bronze Member
England
102 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2010 : 08:16:08 AM
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Fascinating to read of the different injuries and their treatments. Seren Vega has just come back into ridden work after months, following slicing a huge chunk off the front of his hind from the whole fetlock down the pastern to the coronet. The whole thing was attached only along the coronary band, and was down to the joint capsule but did not actually cut into any of that (miracle).
We bandaged the whole thing back on, expecting most of it to die off, and used intrasite to encourage granulation. Result is almost perfect, though we have a visible step along the scar line.
I have lost the photos due to computer failure and failure to back up files - idiot.
However, one theme that keeps recurring on AL is people complaining that their vets are not good at this or that. Why do you use vets that are no good at this or that? I just don't get it. This isn't the NHS. Use a vet you trust, and change vets if you don't!
Dom |
Edited by - Sirius on 20 Jan 2010 08:17:41 AM |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2010 : 5:06:31 PM
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However, one theme that keeps recurring on AL is people complaining that their vets are not good at this or that. Why do you use vets that are no good at this or that? I just don't get it. This isn't the NHS. Use a vet you trust, and change vets if you don't!
If only it was that easy! Here in Cornwall we only have 3 practices that do Equine work. Sometimes it is a case of picking the best of a bad bunch  Time has to be a factor as well, how long will it take for them to get to you in an emergency? Anyone who has been to Cornwall on holiday will tell you it does not have the best road network!!!
Changed the bandage toady and took pics, will update and upload them later |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2010 : 8:27:26 PM
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Well took that bandage off today it has been on since friday night. i am cautiously pleased with it, no proud flesh and even some evidence of new skin. The whole area looks slightly more robust. I am definatly taking Xsaras advice and changing the dressing more often. The vets have said to change ever 5th day but I don't think it looks as good as after the 3 day changes. As Rhoni noticed with Buffy, it looks a little grey. Also the pad has rubbed a little bit just below the cut, we don't need any more open wounds thank you!
OH been to vets today and got some Dermisol so that has gone on this eve.
Here are pics from earlier today after a light wash
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2010 : 11:57:35 AM
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Colin split both legs on the same side from knee to hoof. Both I and the vet thought he'd have to be PTS but decided to give it a go. Bandaged every 3 days with a pad then softwrap then cottonwool, a bandage, cotton wool and banadage and then vetwrap and tape for two months (he was pretty fed up by the end) then with just one layer of cotton wool for a futher 3 weeks. Finally used fuciderm and now you would never know and we are hoping that when his coat comes out again the scar will be invisible. I've asked the vet to send the before and after picture through. They now use the pictures for teaching student. Final cost was around £6,500 which was a bit of a shock but he's totally sound so I suppose it was worth it.
His injury was somplicate by the fact that he has exposed the bone thus there was a risk of bone infection as well.
Just keep bandaging it will come good in the end
Yvonne
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emmaD
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
137 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2010 : 12:16:23 PM
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Wizard my gelding broke his hind lateral splint bone 14 weeks ago and it was an open fracture.......He was a the Dick vet for two weeks and then home to us.....we changed his dressings every 3 days and used intrasite gel for the first six weeks we then changed to manuka Honey dressings that we got from the chemist.He also has large pressure sores from the Robert Jones bandage and we are now treating the wound site and the pressure sores with dermasol cream applied daily.
here is the leg the day he did it.......
and yesterday 14 weeks on......
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Put your ass on some class....ride an arab! |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2010 : 1:11:12 PM
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| Hi I can believe it as my girls would go absolutely crazy if the deer were to appear in their field as they charge round like loones where on appears on the horizon you would think a huge monster was coming They had a horse in Saudi with a leg like that, so I bathed it twice a day and packed in with Aloe vera from th actual plant itself three times a day and although it took a few weeks, the healing process really started quickly, they were worried as it had been bad for weeks with no sign of getting any better and we had very little supplies to work with, the vets stuff had not touched it so it was really a case of nothing to lose and it worked, I wish I had some pics before and after a couple of weeks |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2010 : 12:37:52 PM
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Well 2 changes of Dermisol later and I am really pleased It is looking clean, healthy and seems to be shrinking 
Here are the pics from this morning (not been washed off in this)
Dare I hope we are starting to get somewhere???
Thnak you so much to everyone who suggested Dermisol, i can see a real improvement  |
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Will it ever heal? * New update*
