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mogwai
Platinum Member
 England
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 09:27:38 AM
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I know, this topic comes up every winter, but i'm really struggling. I have a 4 year old filly who has been blighted with infections (liver!) and viruses and needed 8 weeks of antibiotics at the end of last year, leaving her immune system very low. She also has 4 high white socks, and the horses have moved recently onto our own land, only compounding the issue i imagine.
Ruby's mud fever started just before christmas. I had been using pig oil and sulphur, and she developed a few surface scabs, had a small amount of hairloss and there was a bit of swelling, all above where i'd been putting the pig oil. I continued with the pig oil, higher up thinking the sulphur would clear it. It got no worse, but not much better either, though did look drier. I also clipped some of the hair off around the sore bits. I contacted the vet after a week and she suggested wrapping with cling film and bandages, which i did, and that's when the trouble really started. I took the bandages off and nher skin looked horrendous, sore, weeping and soggy, she was just hobbling about and looking very sorry for herself, all 4 legs had swollen and just looked awful.
I called the vet again and they said they weren't coming out except for emergencies (we have loads of snow, ice and freezing fog here!) and that they wanted to give her steroids, antibiotics and streroid cream to get the swelling down.
I am now in a dilema. I have a very sore horse that the vet seems to want to hurl everything at, and i'm just not sure that's right for her! She will let me touch her legs, but is unlikely to let me wash them without sedation. I am tempted to get a more local vet out (i'm sdtill using my old one about 15 miles away) and have her sedated and clip off all the hair and give it all a really good clean up and start afresh.
I have put her on a high dose of probiotics to try and ensure her gut is working effectivly, in the hope that will help her immune system, she is also on a liver/skin tonic from roger hatch. In desperation i have got a product called "ruggle it" or "stop it all" which seems to be a neem type oil, in the hope of at least treating her naturally to prevent any further depletion in her immune system. I have no idea if that's doing her any good, and she's only had it on since last night.
Anyone got any advice for my poor girl. She really seems to be a disaster area at the moment. If i can just get her immune system going, i think we'll be ok.....
Ros
(sorry it's so long!!)
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Edited by - mogwai on 28 Jan 2010 07:23:06 AM
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 09:41:09 AM
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Oh Ros what a nightmare for you!
I can't be much help regarding treating her mud fever right now, although I can help with the immune system bit!
Shesky has been a bit of a sick note since i got him with one little infection after the other - he was already on Equine Gold (yeast - you can also use Yeesacc or Pink Powder), and I had just started him and Pasha on Aloe Vera, but my vet said to give him Echinacea!
So he now has Emune (equine America). Costs about £19 and the bottle lasts well over a month! Touch wood, no problems since! The vet has advised me to keep him on this October to February/March every year.
I think if she were mine I would get her some antibiotics, keep her in and keep the skin very clean and dry. I wouldn't scrub or try and touch it, maybe just stand the leg in a bucket of warm water and hibi scrub and then put breathable leg wraps on to dry them, then once dry, leave open to the air.
Pasha used to suffer from very bad mud fever and mum tried everything, always going by the book, yet every year he would get it! Now we have our own method, which works for him and Shesky - they both have the mud cold hosed off their feet and fetlocks when they come in, then are in a few hours and almost dry before having Thermatex leg wraps on overnight. We NEVER brush around their heels in winter!
The books all say never wash, wait for the mud to dry and brush off BUT a) If they're realy muddy, the fur never drys completely and the mud stops the air getting to the skin and b) scrubbing away with a brush trying to get thick mud off damages the skin underneath... just what we've found anyway.
Good luck - I really hope she feels better soon x |
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Meggie-Lu
Platinum Member
England
1519 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 09:55:13 AM
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Ros sorry 2 hear that your poor lil girl has had sush a bad time! Merlin lives with a yearling who is blind and he has had similar problems, he has special boots on in the feild that cover his feet and his hoof, they are very effective, although he does still get very sore at times. When Pudsey gets sore we put him in the outdoor school, it's easier with Pudsey as he is blind he dosent graze very much so he eats grass pellets in his food, but he has a big haynet up.
Maybe you could try smthing like the boots.
I have to say if your girl is having a bad time maybe getting a more local vet is a good idea, just so you have a saftey net their. I think shaving her off was a gd idea, at least it will make it easier 4 u if you need to clean her up. If i hear of anything that might help i will of course let u no.
Hope ur lil girl is feeling a bit better.
Meg and Merlin x |
   Danger Mouse |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 10:11:49 AM
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Your girl must be feeling really sorry for herself.
Nimah has suffered from mud fever in the past but I think (touching wood) we have got the prevention regime that works for us sorted now.
It got really bad a few years ago and my old failsafe treatments of washing with malaseb, drying with a hairdryer and flamazine (silver) cream didn't work.
My vet gave me some fuciderm cream (steroid) and that cleared it up but I decided I needed to sort out prevention. I have to say I was really impressed with how effective the steroid cream was, I only used it for 5 days and the mud fever was gone. I would be really cautious about giving a horse steroid medication but I think the cram is quite safe if used for a short time.
To prevent it now I put talc on her legs every day before turnout(one that contains benzyl benzoate) and she has thermatex leg wraps on when she comes in until her legs are dry.
I also cut all alfalfa out of her feed, I definitely think this was a trigger.
If she has any slight knock to her legs I treat it straight away with manuka and every so often she has Global Herbs Restore which is fantastic for boosting the immune system.
I hope you find something that works for your girl, you are bound to gets lots of different opinions! Good luck. |
Heléna
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deebee
Silver Member
262 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 10:17:39 AM
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I would agree that you don't want to go the steroid etc route, especially with her immune system struggling! unfortunately it sounds like the cling film gave the bug exactly the environment it needed to develop... I think all the things you've been using yourself are right. I would just try to keep as much air to her legs as possible, and clean and dry; wash with disinfectant, or there's an antibiotic powder, I think? (can't think of the name). I'm not sure if the oil is good when the skin's got infected, but it is a good preventative.
Which vet do you use? I know of two and could discuss them with you, if you want to pm me x |
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Timbercroft
Gold Member
Wales
936 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 10:54:43 AM
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Oh Ros im so sorry Ruby is so saw. What a nightmare for you both.
Have a read about this i have used it before and found it wonderful, have a read and see what you think, only thing is i think you would have to buy it from the USA as i cant find anyone selling it in the uk but might be worth ringing them. It really is super stuff!
Type in Anivac ( Animal bathing systems) and the in the product section look up ...Pure Oxygen Cleaner-Deodoriser & Fungal Wash. If you cant find it let me know and ill send a link.
I would agree steroids is possibly not a good way to go.
Linda x
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www.lma-arabians.co.uk |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 10:55:43 AM
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Thanks for you help guys!
Pasha - your neddies are such lucky beans, they are most well looked after horses! The equine america stuff sounds really good, i'll get some of that for her and see how she goes. I'm with you on not brushing, i never brush their legs winter or summer for that reason.
Meg - Wow, a blind yearling! Must be challenging. He must have an amazingly trustiung relationship with his owner. The local vet is coming at 11.30. I have ordered boots so i just have to wait until she's cleared up and i can use them.
Eeyore- I'll see what the vet suggests, though i imagine it will involve steroid cream. I'm adament i don't want her on systemic steroids at this stage. I tried flamazine right at the start of all thius and it didn't work at all. It just shows you, they're all different!
Deebee - i'll pm you
Ros
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 12:16:23 PM
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Steroids shouldn't be used on horses with low immune systems as this could cause all sorts of problems, including laminitis etc.
If you want to try a natural product I found Aromaheel from Aromesse very good. Just slab it on and the scabs come off on their own with no rubbing or picking needed and the skin heals beautifully. But she probably needs to be stabled and dry for a while so the wet weather we're having doesn't make it worse and the cream can work in dry open air.
I've also heard that Camrosa is supposed to be good but I've not tried that myself. |
West Sussex |
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Holly
Gold Member
England
529 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 12:17:48 PM
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Hi Mogwai
Not sure if my advice would be any good for you because my girls have never had really bad mud fever. I would clip off as much hair as possible. my vet told me to wash their legs with straight hibi scrub, leave it on for 10 minutes and then wash off it off. Then dry there legs well with a towel and paper towels work really well as they absorb all the water.
Then i cover the legs in 'heel to hoof' made by barrier. Its a herbal oily cream and it kind of melts in your hand because of the warmth. I try and massage it in as close to the skin as possible and some of the scabs fall off at this stage. I then apply the cream twice a day really rubbing it in to the scabs. You will notice that more scabs fall off each day until there is just pink skin left. It usually takes a week to get all the scabs off. Then I would repeat the hibi scrub wash and then cover the legs in a barrier like protocon or similar.
Ive never tried the special feed supplements that claim to help but they may be worth a go.
Good luck |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 12:21:44 PM
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Ros - not sure how much this will help....
my old girl came to me with really bad mud fever - my farrier advided washing her legs with hibiscrub, dry well (like Holly I used paper towels) then liberal amount of udder cream - cleared her up quickly. I then used sportabac turnout boots in wet weather and never had a repeat outbreak.
Poor Ruby - hope she is better soon.
Kim |
www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 1:28:09 PM
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hiya ros,
poor ruby, you certainly have a job looking after her.
i personally wouldn't use warm water, it will open up the spores and that is how the bacteria is getting in.
I'd clean her legs with cold water and hibiscrub, and once completey dry, i would dry with a towel, don't bandage her legs, as once it heats up it is opening the spores/sores up again, or just leave to dry in stable then smother with sudocreme, i wouldn't do this on a daily basis, sounds like she could do with some antibiotics as well, and anti-inflammtry.
do you have an unmuddy place she could go out in? if not are you able to fence off a small area and get some chippings or something down and keep out the mud and wet for a while. and be preapred, i'd use turnout boots on her once healed up.
hope she gets better soon. |
pagey |
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moonlight
Platinum Member
2000 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 1:55:34 PM
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| Hi Ros, sorry to hear of your battle with mud fever, my old mare used to suffer with it very badly and had to have steroids on one occasion, having moved house she hasn't suffered from it for 9 years now-fingers crossed! And our worst trouble with it began after following vet advice to bandage/cling film! I'd agree with the hosing off, no scrubbing followed by paper towel drying then applying Barrier Hygiene's Heel to Hoof, I found it's a great hand cream too! I found that when Zara was very sore I could just slap that on for several days and then it would be comfortable enough for her to wash off and the worst scabs would peel away leaving healthy pink skin underneath.As far as boosting the immune system, echinacea is great and aloe vera will help support her digestive system whilst using/after using antibiotics. Good luck! |
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 2:04:16 PM
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| I don't know if anyone else uses them but I was told about a herb company by my instructor and I purchased a tonic on my instructors advise as mirshid was lacking his normal sparkle. As a result he now has a lovely shiny coat and also this is the first winter when he hasn't suffered mud fever- something that can develop as a result of a lowered immune system. I was really sceptical but having tried all sorts of creams, washing/not washing actually boosting him from the inside has done it. If you would like the name of the company please pm me. |
      
Suffolk |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 2:49:42 PM
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From what I've seen (and heard) cling-film is a terrible idea, I am amazed that a vet would recommend it.
Something I have also noticed is that the liveries on the yard who (well meaningly) hose their horses legs daily are the ones with the problems, horses left with the mud to dry overnight are absolutely fine. Of course, that doesn't help if they already have mud fever but keeping dry and the air circulating has to make sense.
The advice above regarding boots seems a good idea. |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 8:27:35 PM
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Thank you for all you advice  . The weird thing is, she hasn't really been in muddy conditions at all, still isn't, i just don't understand it.
The vet came today and she was sedated. Her legs are an absolute state, and he's not even sure it's mud fever. She doesn't really have scabs, just very inflammed skin exuding green/yellow serum. She is so unbelievably sore. I clipped all her legs, and bathed them all in hibiscrub, then did it again! She has had bute and has been started on antibiotics which i have to inject myself. She absolutely hates me as every time she sees me i do something painful to her, and when she was coming round from her sedation she was standing in her box quivering and just looked so pitiful. The thing that's really worrying me is the way she's moving, it's almost like a neurological deficit. I just hope it is "only" pain! It breaks my heart, but i just have to get on with it and hope she improves quickly!
So, she is on box rest to keep her legs dry, she is on a further course on antibiotics (i'll get some aloe vera gel to sooth her G.I tract, thank you whoever suggested that!) for 5 days, hibiscrubbed legs for as long as it takes, then a mix of e45, anibiotic powder and flowers of sulphur. The vet will come agaqin in a week to reassess her, before if she's no better or worse.
Thank you all for all your suggestions, she is really one unhappy girl at the moment!
Ros |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 9:12:26 PM
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BIG hugs and kisses to you and ruby doo
hope she is feeling better soon, you know where we are if you need anything
xxxxxxxxxx |
www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 10:58:42 AM
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Well, today i think we have a mild improvement. I checked her at about 10.30 last night and she was still incredibly sore. I muched her out and even adding new straw seemed to increase her sensitivity. She was just petrified of anything touching her legs! When i got up this morning she initially seemed quite distressed and she just had a strange look about her (a bit random i know, but she just didn't look like Ruby!). However after standing with her for a few moment she seememd to settle. Initially i thought she looked alot better, and i led her out of her box, but she still has this really really odd gait, well i say gait, she doesn't nreally move forward, just lifts her legs up like a spider and seems unable to know nwhere the floor is. Her head was doing strange things too and bobbing about. The vet thinks it's just pain and she's become hyper sensitive to everything, i'm just not sure. I injected her antibiotics fine and srayed her legs with hibiscrub solution and she finally ate her breakfast with a few conditioning cubes springled on top (she never has those normally, but i just thought i'd give them a go to encourage her to eat! It worked! thank you top spec!!!)
Once she'd had her breakfast she really settled, ok it had bute in but it was probably far to soon to have had any effect. It is absolutely persisting it down today, so i don't feel at all guilty about keeping her in.
Legs still look really strange. There are no areas of scabbing as you'd imagine with classical mud fever, just a wet dermatitis everywhere (anyone who has seen a "hotspot" on a dog with itchy skin will know what i mean.
At least the snow is finally going!
xxx |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 11:52:54 AM
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Ros I had a filly who, about the same age, appeared to get mud fever though she hadn't been in mud at all. If fact it was in summer. (One local groom asked if she had been in a field with thistles and buttercups together as the juice in buttercups can cause problems on *****led skin).
She was then kept in all winter, only going out to be exercised on the roads, and had her legs washed and dermobioned but it never really cleared up.
Then she went to be schooled for a couple of months and hey presto, the 'mud fever' went. The routine was cleaning with hibiscrub solution in lukewarm water and drying very gently with gamgee and cotton wool, followed by dermobion.
But the key thing was that she was put on ordinary chaff rather than Alfa A and I believe this was the cause. I heard about lots of horses after who got 'mud fever' or those symptoms, as a reaction to alfafa.
Moon never had alfafa again and has never got 'mud fever' of any kind again... |
Roseanne |
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 6:18:31 PM
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| Perhaps something like flamazine cream may be better..... |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 7:19:39 PM
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Thanks Roseanne, glad your girl got sorted out, i hope the same will go for Ruby.
Ella, thanks for the article, really informative. The vet has already mentioned an autoimmune problem, but that's just too scary to contemplate at this stage!
Her legs look terrible, but at least she's eating her feeds with her goodies in. she seems pretty unsettled and i think a great part of that is pain. She is having 2 bute a day, but she is so so sore. I just feel terrible for her!
Ros |
Edited by - mogwai on 16 Jan 2010 06:58:38 AM |
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Misshana
Silver Member
England
449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 11:06:20 PM
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I have suffered with 'mud fever' for many years with chestnut Arabs. My first mare had photosensitivity and her son also has suffered badly with mud fever , actually unable to move as the heels were so sore. I sympathise with you as if I even look down at his legs, he will run away in case I'm going to hurt him. I was told many years ago about not fertilizing the grass as this can cause it. Also stopped the Alfafa too. In my opinion all the creams and lotions only make it fester more and the only thing that has worked on mine is powder. I use antibacterial powder if I think theres any infection, otherwise just Boric Acid powder. It works for my boy, he's had nothing this year. But I must bring him in at nights late summer as thats when it usually starts,
when it begins to get damp before they grow their winter coat for protection.Incidentally mine has NEVER been caused thro standing in mud! |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 07:17:18 AM
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| Poor Ruby, and you. I changed to shavings when I was treating my old mare for mud fever as I found the straw really irritated her. |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 2:14:15 PM
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Well, i am not sure we are making progress or not! Her legs are no worse, but no better either. She is still unbelievably sore, and still not moving much. When she does move it's with this exaggerated gait she has developed. I can't get near her legs (believe me, i'm no wuss!) enough to do much, so i'm still spraying on her hibiscrub and then dusting with wound powder to try and dry it all out. That process alone takes me an hour!
One of the main problems now is that her stable is running with water due to melting ice and snow and rain fall, so even inside she's not keeping all that dry (though certainly drier than if she were outside). The shelters have just been built and we'd been waiting for the weather to clear before we attempted to get on ladders and put guttering up! Ruby in herself is really not happy. She's started weaving, or attempting to (she keeps stumbling  ). I honestly can't see that the stress is going to help her poor battered immune system. She isn't eating her hay, but she is eating her feed with all her goodies in still, and i've bought her some equilage which she is eating a bit of.
I am trying to be positive for her, at least when i'm with her, but it isn't easy at the moment and the bloody weather seems to be doing it's damndest to make things as awful as possible. I have never, ever seen as much water on the ground as there was this morning!
All in all, a pretty pathetic picture.
I tried to call my vet but they're closed for the weekend. Not sure if it constitutes an emergency.
Ros |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 2:45:34 PM
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Ros, this sounds horrific for you and your poor horse. My gelding Beau had pretty bad mud fever in December - I missed 3 days of putting on sudocrem as I was away and someone was checking him for me. When I checked him both his hind legs were swollen and had red sore patches, I called the vet out and we put him on a five day course of antibiotics, I managed to wash his legs with hibiscrub and then put fucidin ointment which the vet had given me for him. Told to keep him in but after 48 hours had to put him out as he was going bonkers, he then came in every night but legs were so sore it was really difficult to treat. So I resorted to antibacterial powder sprayed on a big scoop of sudocrem and them just plastered it on as best as I could, within four days all swelling had gone and pink skin was showing. I then sprayed on 'Green Oils' as it was still difficult to get near his legs within days it was all cleared up, now he is back to normal and fine with me touching his legs. In fact the very cold weather has been great as there hasn't been any mud for weeks. I will continue with either the Green Oils or sudocrem. You mention that there is not a lot of mud around at your place - mud is just one factor this can happen in dry conditions as once the skin has broken down that's how the bacteria gets in.
Really hoping she shows improvement soon.
Best Wishes
Ali |
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Not MF, Pseudomonas AND LV!!!
