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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2009 : 4:40:18 PM
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I just says Bwlch Goldflake bred by late P. Davies by Meteoric (TB) out of Cigarette.
No further details of her i the WSB. |
Edited by - Melynda on 16 Sep 2009 5:50:56 PM |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2009 : 8:33:51 PM
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| Mother has found an article printed in early 60:es when Bwlch Valentino was getting famous, and it just say that Cigarette was bought from the gipsies at a sale, and was told that she was by an arab stallion out an welsh mare. |
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Peterina
New Member
Belgium
16 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 01:45:18 AM
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| According to a german article about Bwlch Valentino, Bwlch Goldflake was a granddaught on the motherline of the sire: Sigoretti. No further info on him. |
Palomino's are dancing sunbeams. |
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 6:25:47 PM
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According to information for Bwlch Goldflake(Allbreeds), Cigarette was a 13hh. flapping pony, WSB no.562 FS. Being that height she will be
a Section B and not a Welsh Mountain Pony. As she is Foundation Stock she is probably only in the Stud Book on inspection, that can make it unlikely her parentage is known. Who's got the earlier Welsh Stud Books
then?
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 10:00:55 PM
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According to Index of WSB Bwlch Goldflake's entry is in the Appendix Entry Mares as;
Bwlch Goldflake, 562-F.S., ch, 1927, Sec B, WSB Vol XXXIV, Breeder The late P. Davies, Sire Meteoric (T.B.), Dam Cigarette.
No more info on dam.
I think the Meteoric in question is the one born 1920 by Sunstar ex Flechette. He has got several H.I.S. registered offspring.
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 10:16:01 PM
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I obviously misread the information - thinking it applied to Cigarette, not
Bwlch Goldflake! Sorry. |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 10:23:30 PM
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I found a Cigarette listed in Prior's H.B. Stud-Book
She was born 1917, bay, by Cheroot (son of Firmilian) out of a Prospector mare who was born 1912, chestnut, out of Infinity (GSB).
Probably a long shot. |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 10:34:15 AM
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"Does anyopne have the information about who bred Bwlch GoldFlake and the other Cigarette children."
Bwlch Goldflake - Breeder The late P. Davies (as mentioned earlier)
Bwlch Hill Wind (WP-BR 67) - Mrs N. Pennell
Bwlch Zingaree (unregistered according to WSB)
Bwlch Valentino (NPS)
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 8:19:38 PM
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"Bwlch" is Mrs. Pennell's prefix. I'm sure Zingaree is NPS registered. |
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 5:06:26 PM
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I have been trawling through the NPS Society Reviews and have found this from 1994 - an article on Goldflake by Mary Redvers, Mrs. Pennells' daughter.
Mrs. Pennell first saw Goldflake in a field in Oxfordshire during 1931. She had been bought in by the farmer and dealer Jack Castle with a load of cattle from a sale in Llandeilo. Mrs. Pennell purchased her immediately for £35 pounds. Goldflake was bright chestnut with three white socks and a blaze, a lovely intelligent head, good limbs and fine quality.Her sire was Meteoric, who was by the Derby winner Sunstar. She was sold to Mrs. Cyril Darby who showed her very successfully ridden astride and sidesaddle. In 1934 she was champion at the Royal and won the Belvoir cup at Olympia. She fell into bad ownership and was bought back by Mrs. Pennell for £105.
Her dam, Cigarette, was 13.1hh.,a grey and famous in South Wales as being unbeatable in flapping races at her own height and up to 14.2hh. Even handicapped at 100 yards nothing could beat her.......
(My comments:-)
It's obvious that Cigarette was not a Welsh Mountain Pony at that height and might not even have been born in Wales. Miss Ferguson did not know her breeding in the 60s and she had plenty of contact with Mrs. Pennell. I am still trawling - Mrs Redvers has info on Goldflakes' offspring but no mention of any more from Cigarette.
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 9:55:39 PM
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My next installment from Mrs. Redvers'article:-
(Bwlch)Goldflakes first foal in Mrs. Pennell's ownership was Bwlch Goldflake II (1940)ches. filly by Silverdale Loyalty(NPS.) This daughter won a lot of Show Pony, Hack classes and point-to-points.
Bwlch Goldleaf, by Revel Welsh Model(Sec. A Welsh)
Bwlch Firebird(1947), by Revel Bluebird(Sec. A Welsh) - dam of Bwlch Aflame - both big winners.
Holy Smoke, black filly by Friar(Polo Pony)(Not on Allbreeds)
The last foal and only colt, Bwlch Valentino(1950)grey, by Valentine.
Named after Rudolph Valentino, he was a rather plain foal but when he moved he showed he was something special.
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 4:29:43 PM
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Looking through the H-B Stud Books I've come across the name Cigarette on produce several times but nothing fitting the above mare.
An interesting entry is "A bay mare , named Cigarette (aged) by Victor - Maid of Honour, ran in 1886 in races for ponies of 14.3 and under, but it is not apparent when this mare was foaled."
Seems to be a popular name for racing ponies!
RE; Right For'ard I've seen this.
San Luis anf Jorge Anderson in Santa Fe, who imported the famous Right For´ard -father to the well know Belsire. Unfortunately, Right For´ard died during the trip by sea.
so poor Right For'ard's life ended a bit tragic. |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 4:54:26 PM
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| Originally posted by Nimlat
My next installment from Mrs. Redvers'article:-
(Bwlch)Goldflakes first foal in Mrs. Pennell's ownership was Bwlch Goldflake II (1940)ches. filly by Silverdale Loyalty(NPS.) This daughter won a lot of Show Pony, Hack classes and point-to-points.
Bwlch Goldleaf, by Revel Welsh Model(Sec. A Welsh)
Bwlch Firebird(1947), by Revel Bluebird(Sec. A Welsh) - dam of Bwlch Aflame - both big winners.
Holy Smoke, black filly by Friar(Polo Pony)(Not on Allbreeds)
The last foal and only colt, Bwlch Valentino(1950)grey, by Valentine.
Named after Rudolph Valentino, he was a rather plain foal but when he moved he showed he was something special.
There is a stallion called Prince Friarstown, sire of Silverdale Loyality.
In the list of Polopony stallions at stud 1930 is a stallion called Friar 1381 at stud with Mrs P T Davies-Cooke, Gwysaney,Mold, Flints.
unfortunely his breeding is not told. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 7:49:56 PM
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Hannah Ann (approved mare reg p 45)
black 14,2 hh by Chari GBS vol XVII by Charibert.
owner/breeder Dowager Lady Penrhyn, Wicken Park, Stony Stratford, Bucks. Also dam of the stallion Radical 1559 (supp 1924)foaled 1924 , measured 1928, 15.hh, by Reform 1002 dark bay 14,2 hh. |
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dormouse
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2009 : 2:06:48 PM
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Weatherby's list two animals called Charibert but no Chari. Strangely both with the same names for sire and dam but nearly thirty years apart in age.
Charibert 1876 Colt Thormanby - Gertrude
Charibert 1902 Colt Thormanby - Gertrude |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2009 : 3:20:36 PM
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Chari (GSB Vol XVII p. 63)
Brown, foaled 1889,
By; Charibert
Ex; Blue Bonnet by Macgregor ex Jenny by Newminster
Breeder; R. Crompton
Owner; Austin C. Carr, Broxton Lower Hall, Chester.
Used as an H.I.S. sire covered 30 mares in 1901, Broxton area.
Charibert born 1876 was used as a TB sire
By; Thormanby
Ex; Gertrude (born 1867) by Saunterer ex Queen Bertha by Kingston. She was exported to Germany 1885.
Chariberta, chestnut mare was born 1890 by Charibert ex Olivette by Parmesan.
Cleator sire used in TB breeding
chestnut born 1888 by Charibert out of Haematite.
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Edited by - Melynda on 23 Oct 2009 3:34:47 PM |
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Ziadomira
Platinum Member
England
1635 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2009 : 8:48:08 PM
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Lovely old names mentioned here.
Has anyone noticed that Kilvington Scoundrel the sire of the Supreme Horse of the year at HOYS The Phinalderer and the Cherif supreme Sandhills Scallywag has both Bwlch Valentino and Bwlch Zingaree in his pedigree. In all breeds it states that Valentino was 12.5% Arab and recorded as a part bred. Zingaree was registered as a riding pony. Beautiful pedigree with legendary Arab, TB and Welsh horses
Zia |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 11:28:24 AM
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I was also interested to see how both top and bottom lines went back to Malice -1920,a Chestnut TB, who was imported from Argentina and went to Dorset to Lady Margaret Dummond-Hay, he appears several times in the lines and obviously came together to help to give us these lovely riding ponies,which were influenced by the Polo/Riding ponies of those early years and the other lines, Arab, Welsh, TB, etc.etc.
I've have never seen Kilvington Scoundrel and like the look of him from his online pic.. I only saw Bwlch Valentino once and that was at his home in the Welsh Mountains, but it was a very impressionable, once seen never forgotten. I also saw Bwlch Minuet on a regular basis,at one time, the only filly from that breeding, as the rest were colts, Zip,Zingari,Zephyr,Zest, and I know that one of Minuet's daughters is at home in the next Welsh Valley where Bwlch Valentino spent his life. Lovely ponies, lovely times.
Sue
Leaving you the breeding links to the family.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kilvington+scoundrel
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/miss+minnette
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 26 Oct 2009 12:15:24 PM |
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easyrider
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 2:02:42 PM
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| i am interested in this bloodline too as i have a gelding who comes down this line, can i ask why you are? |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 2:38:02 PM
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Hi easyrider, This is the reason for my interest(link below). I love the whole Valentino, Zephyr, Wild Fire, North Wind ponies and would'nt it be nice to complete the missing gaps in this pedigree and line. In the 1960ies I went to help out at Twylands Stud and met lots of this family line. Lovley ponies lovely times...you'll have me and Nimlat in tears. Have you seen the photos's of Zephyr on the other posting.
The team are already breaking ground on this line, back to the turn of the century.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/floret8
Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 20 Nov 2009 2:51:23 PM |
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easyrider
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 5:56:23 PM
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RR...i too have been fasinated as well!! my pony is a cusop offspring and even though hes not the best example i have on several occasions been asked without promting if he is a 'cusop' its surprised me how easily and expert will know. 'Very spirited breeding but once you have one in your heart they will give you much pleasure' was a judges comment to me
valentino and zephyr are great grand parents of my horse
i wrote to both the breeder of my horses mare and the stallion and both were very helpful sending me photos, i have enjoyed searching it out. Prompted by your thread i have emailed the breeders of valentino to see if anymore info can be obtained about Cigarette as my tree has reached a full stop there, i will update you if i hear anything |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 11:22:42 AM
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Keep it coming.
Pelle, What other Polo ponies have you got in the 1930 stud records???, and I'm wondering now if Mrs P Davies might have moved to Mold, after Mr P Davies death ( in Lladeilo)...
Are there any ponies registered/bred by Mrs P Davies...that you can spot.??
Melynda, Any more on Meteoric 1920, I was wondering where he was stationed at stud, and what other offsprings there might be.(any any idea what size he was/colour.
Thanks
Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 25 Nov 2009 10:59:46 AM |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 6:01:22 PM
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In 1930 NPS vol XX
nmembers
Davies, mrs Winifred.A. The vicarage, Sutton -on -the -Forest ,
York. June 1909
Davies-Cooke, P.T. Gwysany, Mold, north Wales,
Davies-Cooke, Mrs ., Gwysany, Mold, north wales.
no prod. registed in vol XX,
but at Hurlingham Club show , June 13, 1930, in class
* Heavyweight Poloponies suitable for Players riding 14 stone and upwards* owner/breeder Mrts Davies-Cooke,place 8
Venus 1925, grey mare, 14,1, 7/8 hh
by Son of Love 1681 (GSB XXV p 516)
ex Fat Mary
by Child of the Islands II (by Child of the Islands (winner at calcutta)arab-bred stallon 14.1 hh, greyroan.
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CIGARETTE - GREY 13.1hh. 1920? . mare
