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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 11:41:20 AM
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Anyone find a mare called PIGEON for the 1950 - 1960, a Part Bred Arab.Please.
Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 11 Sep 2009 9:44:12 PM
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 2:52:03 PM
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Pigeon 1957 grey PBA VI
sire IRIDOS AHSB VIII
dam TESSIE
bred by Miss L Lee |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 9:25:45 PM
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Hi Pelle, Can you go any further back with her dam TESSIE, fingers crossed and thank you.
Sue |
Sue
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 9:13:47 PM
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The BRYNHEULOG prefix is registered to MRS L G LEWIS-HAMES for the British Palomino Society and the Welsh Pony & Cob Society.
I don't know if you put the details on allbreed for BRYNHEULOG SHIPRAHN (this is the correct spelling according to PBAR), but spelling is wrong there.
BRYNHEULOG SHIPRAHN has an offspring called BRYNHEULOG ZARAH, chestnut filly born in 1965 by Indian King.
PIGEON has another grey filly called BRYNHEULOG MALIKAT AYER born 1965 in PBAR VII.
Miss L. G. Lewis has got a few ponies registered in the Welsh Stud book; BRYNHEULOG BOAZ and BRYNHEULOG KITH BAT NESSAN both stallions by Kerrim out of Cilgwyn Cariad (by Acre Pasha out of Cilgwyn Ceres a section B).
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Edited by - Melynda on 19 Aug 2009 9:15:16 PM |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:28:37 PM
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Hi Melynda, Will have to do a catch up with the others you've reported. Got a busy day tomorrow..Thank you.
Mrs Lewis Hamer also bred B.El Cid (1969) PBRA Vol.X, who was by Turtons Son/out of B. Malikat Ayer PBAR VII(Kerim AHS/Pigeon PBAR VI. Although it was Turtons Son, that got me interested.
I've also got a note to see Brynheulog Shiprah.(can't remember why).
Brynheulog is in West Wales very close to Tregaron.
and this lady also had Mabsuta Bint Cairitia, who is possible of interest to Pauline on here.
Pigeon, visited Iridos before all the famous mares had met him..he even covered Indian Snowflake for Tollard Pk. so she had some really famous relatives, from that line.
The KERIM I think they used is with one 'R'.
Theses references get longer and longer and more and more complex...our brains have no chance of dying..
Cheers Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 19 Aug 2009 10:38:10 PM |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 09:41:01 AM
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Sorry, it should have been Kerim.
I have also found the same Miss Lorna G. Lewis of Brynheulog in Vol 19 of the H.S.B. (years 1956-1959)
She is the owner of a mare called Tireve (GSB XXXIII p. 953), this mare is entered as H.S.B. 11352 Tireve, bright bay, foaled 1951, 16.2hh. Placed in Hunter Trials and hunted by owner. She is by Onzo out of Bondyke by Linkboy. No produce mentioned though.
Haven't found a Tessie yet. |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 10:45:52 AM
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| My mother has found a TESSIE (Hurlingham register) , shown as youngstock/unmade polopony at Roehampton polo club show in 1954, this Tessie is owned by a Mrs H Lee!Will return with the details of her breeding as soon as possible. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 11:13:43 PM
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Pelle, Keep it coming, Sounds like mother and daughter with Mrs H Lee and Miss L Lee.
What is the Hurlingham register ????? is the Polo Ponies.
Thanks you.
Sue |
Sue
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2009 : 7:47:41 PM
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Hurlinghasm register was some sort of register of poloponies,my grandmother bought several youngsters in the 30-40-50:ies and imported them to sweden, she never liked the big swedish warmbloods.
Tessie
by Majid vol IV AHSB
ex Safia
by Johnny Pascha
ex dartmoor hill pony
and in the 1951 show Johnny Pasha is shown as polopony stallion,and got a gold medal, 14.3hh chestnut by Mysterieux 1714 NPS ex Ruth (imported gulf mare)bred by the late Katerine Foot, and owned by Lady Kitty Ritson. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2009 : 9:56:59 PM
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Hi Pelle, Great news thank you so much.
There are more than one MAJID, can someone please check AHSB Vol.IV and comfirm the breeding and year of birth for this horse.
Pelle, Thanks your mother too. has she got a Year of Birth for Tessie or Safia & Johnny Pascha.
Can anyone check the NPS for the MYSTERIEUX 1714 NPS and if poss tell us the breeding & year of birth for RUTH, bred by Ketherine Foot & Owned by Kitty Ritson.
Thanks you
Sue |
Sue
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 08:16:55 AM
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There is only one Majid registered in the Uk on Datasource. He is reg. as a grey gelding. bred by T.C Armitage. He was born in 1923 By Almulid (Skrowronek x Alfarouse (Berk) x Maasreh (Crosbie (desert bred) x Minsa (Sotamm x Marhaba (Daoud). There are purebred progeny registered. Hope this helps.
There was a Majid on the American register. Majid born 1962 by Rafmirz (Rafflesx Mirsaia) x Amrita (Devachon x Aatika)
There is also a Majid in GSB 1886 by Hadban x Meshura both desert bred and Majid was bred by Wilfred Blunt.
There were plenty more Majids but they were foreign registered. |
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Barabia
Gold Member
Sweden
1059 Posts |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 12:04:04 PM
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| My mother has got a studcard from 1936 of Majid, she is sending a copy to me. |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 7:08:38 PM
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I have now been to my parents house and got the correct breeding of
TESSIE born 1950
greyroan
SIRE Johnny Pascha 1931(polobred)
by Mysterieux NPS 1714 by Collaborator vol XXV ex Miss Star XXIV by Sunstar, breeder Pierce, Wertheimer, Paris, owner William Balding, Eastfield, Rugby,
out of Ruth 1912, gulf mare born in India, by Turkish Flag bay arab stallion 14 hh winner of races at Madras and Poona, out of Subza (white in hindustani) by Abdool Rayman, bay arab stallion 13.2hh winner at Poona. Ruth was refused entry in AHSB due to unverified paretage.
DAM Safira 1935 or 36
by Majid IV
out of Dartmoor pony mare by Mabroud NPS 1058 (arab?? polobred??)
Johnny Pascha was shown in 1952, it just says polobred, no registration anywhere, bred by Miss K Foot and owned by lady Kitty Ritson.
Tessie was shown as a yearling in 1951 with correct breeding.
Safira was shown as *aged broodmare* in 1950 and got second prize.
breeder: J Traill, 71 Roehampton lane, London
owner : miss Delia Simpson, Ringwould, nr Dover. |
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Melynda
Silver Member
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 10:24:05 PM
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Does anyone knows if Mabroud is an arab stallion?
I have found several of his offspring in NPS register bred by a Mr Frank J Balfour, Brierton House, Cheltenham, Glos.
This Mr Balfour also bred Maladante at his farm in Argentine, sire of Malice, sire of Valentine, sire of Bwlch Valentine. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 10:41:58 PM
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All great stuff folks, thank you very much, your all working well.
Leaving you the photograph of the stud card for MAJID (Almulid/Maasreh)AHSB.Vol.IV.
 Majid (1930 or 1936)???. It looks like the year of birth needs checking. Its the same horse.
MYSTERIEUX 1925 (NPS 1714) Is Thoroubred by Collaborator vol XXV ex Miss Star XXIV.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mysterieux5
http://www.pedigreequery.com/mysterieux5
MALACE 1920.TB. (GSB) 1255.Vol.26.Pg.4
s.MALANDANTE 1914. TB. (ARG)
d.ALICIA 1914 TB.
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Pelle, Is there any chance your Mother has anything listed for a SILVERSPRAY, a. MARE approx.1920-1930ish??, she is recorded as by an Arab and out of a Thoroughbred. (This will also help confirm the % of Arab blood, as that listed for Bwlch Valentine is only 12.5%. I think it should be 25%.)
Also
We now need any information on a Welsh Mountain Pony CIGARETTE, same sort of date of birth..around 1920.
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Bwlch Valentino, we know very well, one of the most famous Riding Pony Stallions of our time, but not a pure bred, a cross bred pony.
Leaving the link to Bwlch Valentino. (He was something special)There is a nice photo of him under saddle, on this link.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bwlch+valentino
It looks like there is a fair percentage of Thoroughbred in this pony sire.
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 23 Aug 2009 12:16:47 PM |
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 09:07:35 AM
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| Sorry I mis-read his dob and put his sire's instead and meant to put no reg progeny. |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 11:38:04 AM
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My mother has found another studcard of Majid and he is born 1930. My grandmother had made some notes on that studcard, *very bad fertility and later gelded, played polo and hunted and very fast*
In a list of polo pony stallions available for service 1929 Mabroud NPS 1058 is standing at stud with Mrs J Oscar Muntz, Horrabridge, Devon so very likely he covered som dartmoor ponies as Mrs Muntz also bred dartmoors. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 12:05:56 PM
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Hi All, Thanks Pelle,You and your family are doing well..
These are the only Part Bred Arabs recorded on the Allbreeds, as by MAJID 1930. Can anyone tell me if they are recorded to the correct sire(correct Majid), the only other one we have is TESSIE 1950, which will appear on all breeds in a day or so.
Need also to confirm if MABROUD (NPS 1058) was a Pure Bred Arabian or not and what breeding, date of birth is recorded for him..and any other offsprings...
JUDY II gr M 1937 MAJID # PART-BRED ARAB Edit
LADY BIRD17 gr M 1936 MAJID # PART-BRED ARAB Edit
NURIYA gr/r F 1936 MAJID SILVER GOBLET4 PART-BRED ARAB Edit
If they belong to the 1930 MAJID, I'd be interested to here from
anyone who has any info on the mare SILVER GOBLET.
Anyone got the early Dartmoor stud records...Anything from Mrs Muntz from the mid 1920'ies to 1940ish..Were looking for a FOXHAMS pony..
Keep up the good work..
Thank You
Sue
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 23 Aug 2009 1:10:16 PM |
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 4:39:35 PM
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Judy
Ladybird
Nuriya are all in PBA vol IV.
I will put all info I have on allbreed as soon as possible. |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2009 : 11:55:30 PM
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Pelle, Thanks again. Can you also make sure if they are recordd as by our Majid 1930, please...and not one of the 'other' majid 's..
Thanks Sue |
Sue
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Pelle
Bronze Member
Sweden
141 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 12:28:01 PM
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Judy II
1937 grey
By Majid IV
ex a Yorkshire pitpony
Breeder mrs D Paynter, Isle of Wight, hants.
Owner Miss A Bowditch , Dorchester-on-Times, Oxon
Ladybird 1936 dapple grey
By Majid IV
ex Dapple Grey mare, Pedigree not traced.
Breeder F Webber, Somerset
Owner Mrs J M Crounch, Kilve, nr Bridgewater, Somerset
Nuriya 1936 grey or roan
By Majid IV
ex Silver Goblet (Part-bred arab, bred at Chirk Castle Stud) sire an arab, dam a welsh Mountain pony.
Breeder Dr E R D Maconochie, Maidenhead, Berks.
Owner Miss Helena I Barr, Telford, nr Farnham, Surrey.
(Chirk castle was using the Partbred arab stallion Grey Cross Arabbred register 1921 p 13, by Crosbie AHSB for many years on the welsh mares, and did introduce the purebred arab stallion Greystar AHSB vol IV by Ruskov out of Myra about 1940, so Silver Goblet is most likely by Grey Cross.) |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 4:31:38 PM
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Hi Pelle, Great stuff again. So do you think these are all by our Majid, the 1930 one...
I know Ann Bowditch and Judy was the dam of JuJu, If you look at Dorocinia (Miss Bowditch's prefix)Sea Shanty you will find Judy & JuJu on the botton line. I remember her telling me that after the war there was a shortage of ponies and she had pit mares...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dorocina+juju
I was with D. Sea Shanty at Barbary castle a couple of weeks back and took this photo of her getting washed down after doing 40 miles, but too much water near her ears. Sea Shanty is a lovely big mare full up 15.2h and looks more like an Anglo than Arab or part bred...I better not tell her she has pit pony in there some where...
 Goes back to Judy.
I also remember the Chirk ponies.
Thank You Sue |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 24 Aug 2009 9:37:17 PM |
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carole ferguson
Silver Member
United Kingdom
457 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 5:41:51 PM
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Hi,
I have copies of all the early Dartmoor Stud books from volume 5 (1880)to 22 (1930's) on a disc - so I will trawl through to see what is in there. These were all copied from I think Sylvia Calmady-Hamlyn's hand written notes - but I certainly have the stud notes for the dates you need.
I have found some registered for Foxhams - under Miss Imogen Collier and also Mrs J Oscar Muntz.
Any idea of the names for the ponies involved ?
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 7:45:51 PM
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Hi Carole, Thanks for joining us, were are after a Dartmoor mare that was bred by Mrs Muntz and may have her prexix FOXHAMS. this Dartmoor pony may have been covered by Mrs Muntz's own Stallion MABROUND(who is reg.NPS 1058 and who just may be a pure bred Arab)..
or
A dartmoor mare covered by MAJID 1930 to produce SAFIA or SAFIRA 1935/1936.
Just wondering how many FOXHAMS mares there are registered for around that time and that could have produced a foal in 1935 or 1936 to fit in with Safia or Safira as above.
In the NPS stud books for Vol.XXII Mrs Muntz has also got Polo & Riding Pony Stallions recorded:
Love Song 1918.(with photograph)
Early Love 1931(won & placed at NPS shows 1931 - 1936 then exported to Argintina to V.G.Kennard.Santa Eldora.
Great Fancy 1930.
will make sure these are added to allbreeds.
MALICE 1920 is also there..
Thanks for the help.
PS, I have only the NPS stud books for 1934 to 1939, there are just a few FOXHAMS in these.
Cheers
Sue
Pelle, Small world ha...
Please can you confirm the spelling for SAFIA or SAFIRA.1935/1936 please...
Keep at it, almost there..
Please ask your Mother to check for a mare called SILVERSPRAY.1920 -1930ish.(reference to Bwlch Valentino).
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Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 25 Aug 2009 1:14:50 PM |
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PIGEON - PBAR
