| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
 United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
|
|
Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
|
|
pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 12:12:12 AM
|
has confirmed what I had heard before, that long time soaked hay loses its nutrients.
if hay is so dusty etc that is needs to be soaked, is it fit to feed?
makes no sense to reduce the carbs for laminits and have to add feed to replace the nutrients lost. |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
kofihorse
Bronze Member
241 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 06:54:21 AM
|
Pat, I think it's still a good thing to do as the horse can still have plenty of fibre going through it's gut and then it can have a teeny amount of low cal balancer to make up the nutritional requirements.
I have to soak all the hay my mini eats as he coughs on any dry hay, no matter how clean. My vet told me it was mould spores that are ever present in hay that make him cough, not so much dust. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 09:07:56 AM
|
I am a convert to haylage, I have had some go through winter recently fat off haylage without any hard feed. Hay even when well made almost be definition as it is dried out for longer has less feed value, i converted due to some coughing on hay even though it seemed absolutely beautifully made.
Unfortunately small bales are relatively expensive due to the cost of wrap, so only those with a few bigger horses can really benefit from the change.
I have in the past topped some up with pea straw. Lower feed value but keeps fibre going through the gut as its far worse to ration and leave them for hours without, you then get problems with stomach ulceration.
I think some of the problem for those with laminitics is that people give them the worst hay available, in the hope its feed value is lower, and its the dustiest and mouldiest as well. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 09:21:02 AM
|
Pat--dust, or mould spores, isn't the issue with soaking hay for laminitics, or good doers----I buy beautiful barn dried hay at £4.00 per bale, because I won't buy dusty hay and the last couple of years have been really bad for hay. Samantha gets hers dry, but I soak it for Zaharoff because he is an incredibly good doer and had laminitis before I got him, and the thinking was soaking got rid of sugar and carbohydrates. This article questions whether I have actually been getting rid of water soluble carbohydrates when doing this---I was already aware that I would be losing vitamins and nutrients so he gets a good quality supplement all the time, and fibre from the soaked hay. It has always felt like sacrilage saoking good hay and now I find it might have been pointless Difficult to know what to do for the best.
There is no way I could feed him haylage---he would be like a barrage balloon in no time. Lots of people who feed haylage don't realise you should actually feed more weight wise because of the water content than hay to get enough fibre into them---I have seen so many people feeding less because it has higher feed value.
|
    |
Edited by - Zan on 11 Jul 2009 09:22:47 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
|
|
barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 10:04:39 AM
|
As always, Vera, you have given us food for thought (if you will pardon the pun)! Like Zan, I thought I would be getting rid of the water soluble carbohydrates and knew I would be losing nutrients by soaking my hay but wanted my mare to have the roughage (my first ever laminitis in a 12 year old mare I bred myself, no idea what caused it). The hay I have for her is stalky and fibrous rather than soft meadow hay so maybe it is losing very little of it's carbohydrate content despite the soaking.
I give her a little "Happy Hoof" morning and evening and a vitamin and mineral supplement but what else can one do? I do feed haylage to some of the others and they love it but use ordinary meadow hay for the ones who a very good doers.
Barbara |
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 11:17:36 AM
|
That's quite interesting, but someone I know did her own research and found the hay did lose a significant amount of calories from soaking for up to 12 hours, but not much after that and hay soaked for even an hour did make a difference.
Regardless of that report, I have definitely found I can feed hay soaked for 8 - 16 hours to one of mine who is a very good doer and she doesn't put the weight on like she does with dry hay. I'm using soft meadow hay which may lose more of its sugar content though. I know I can't give Shantih haylage at this time of year - although she's OK with it in winter as she lives out with minimum rugging - as she'd be the size of a house in a couple of days! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 12:06:50 PM
|
Interesting reading and it makes alot of sense in the 'cellular' level. The soaking seems to free up the loose water soluble sugars, whilst the sugars that are contained inside the cell (remember it's inside a cellulose cell wall!) won't get released until the amylase in the saliva and gut breaks down the cellulose... QED
My persoanl preference is to 50:50 the hay (I use late cut for the fatties) with cut stinging nettles- which has great detoxifying qualities... and it's free! (left to dry for 12 hours- takes the sting out). In extreme cases, they just get dried nettles... We've got enough of the stuff around here!
Do a 'taste test' and put out 2 seperate piles... The horse knows what their systems need and given the right variety of herbs and fescule made available in their pasture, they'll just pick what they need.
It's unfortunate that through domestication, limited grazing, weed control and over fertilisation we've put ourselves into this situation.
Well... anyone seen a laminitic horse in the wild?
T  xxx |
    |
Edited by - Theo on 11 Jul 2009 12:09:22 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 2:20:12 PM
|
I have seen people feed less haylage, fine if they provide another fibre source to keep the guts working as they should.
Mine get it ad lib, if the haynets are empty when I come down they get more until there is just a bit left.
i hate going round other peoples stables where in the evening the nets are already empty and the horse stand overnight with nothing to munch. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 3:32:07 PM
|
| That's something I did find with soaked hay - if Shantih was in for a while (she used to stay in sometimes to keep her mother company in winter, her mother had Cushings and was on very limited grass all year) then she could have ad lib soaked hay but ad lib dry made her put weight on really quickly. And I always give ad lib hay if I have had to keep a horse in (although sometimes it's lots of small meshed nets rather than loose) as I hate seeing horses in with nothing to eat. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Songbird
Bronze Member
England
152 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2009 : 1:47:42 PM
|
Interesting thread . My horses have never been laminitic (touch wood ) although they are very good doers but I always serve their hay freshly saturated. All hay contains dust to some extent and although I buy the best I can you can't get away from some dust . It's a well known fact that the longer you soak hay the less use it is as nutrients are destroyed so I am very careful to soak it only long enough to saturate , maybe 15 minutes depending on haynet size. It's also important that you serve the wet hay immediately and not let it hang around drying as then it will only grow more mold spores and you would have been better off feeding it dry in the first place!
|
Kit Rolfe |
| Report to Moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
Interesting article re soaking hay for laminitics
