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Arcanum
Bronze Member
54 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 07:53:15 AM
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After much online research regarding the dilute gene in purebred arabians I wondered if anyone on AL could help me. We have a foal who appears to be shedding his foal coat & revealing a most unusual colour, one which I have never seen on a purebred before. His mother is dark bay, almost brown & his father is black. He has black legs from the knee down, a distinctive dorsal stripe on top of what can only be described as sand coloured coat, his mane is black & cream with silver streaks & his face is very pale indeed around the muzzle & eyes. Does anyone know of any other arabs with this very unusual colouring? Any help, info, links to research would be greatly appreciated.
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jacki
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1988 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 08:30:09 AM
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| i cant help im affraid but am interested! could you post some pics please i would love to see him |
sittingbourne kent |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 09:08:17 AM
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Dun is not found in purebreds so he can't be a dun unless there is a problem with his purity. Do try and post pictures, would love to see him. He may be a pale chestnut coloured bay but should have the dark mane and his pale muzzle and round the eyes sounds odd.
Barbara |
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 10:36:45 AM
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| well funny enough eveyone suspects my purebred arab is carrying the silver gene which is a dilution gene as he has produced a foal that apperas to be silver black(and possibly the other two silver bay). we have a filly thats every bit chestnut but black points(well not really black) and has lots of white through her mane. Pictures would be nice. |
    
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Edited by - honey on 14 Jun 2009 11:06:34 AM |
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Arcanum
Bronze Member
54 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 1:07:50 PM
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| I will be in the sun this afternoon with my camera so will post pictures this evening. Barbara thank you for your comments - there is no question of his purity though as we have both registered parents & I was there at the conception!! |
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Arabian Girl
Platinum Member
England
2893 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 1:27:32 PM
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| i am looking forward to seeing your fotos..xx |
   
Posting from Billinge Wigan |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 1:59:28 PM
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Quite a few ebony bay/black foals are born a sort of dun like colour but moult out dark....or black??
Look forward to seeing pics...Never heard of a Dun pure Arab ???
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Arcanum
Bronze Member
54 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 6:51:02 PM
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Am feeling mildly pleased with myself for managing to post these (technology not being my strongest point!)
Well here he is, our very strangely coloured colt, as you can see emerging from beneath a very thick foal coat is the most unusual colour, the dorsal stripe becomes more evident by the day. I think he's fab, its good to be different! What do you all think...is this the most rare dun arab? Any feedback much appreciated. |
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Arcanum
Bronze Member
54 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 6:52:35 PM
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| The other foal is his half brother so you can see the mealy mouth colouring runs in the family. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 7:09:00 PM
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Your boy will almost certainly end up black. The pale hairs in the tail are typical in most foals: they just show up more in black m/ts.
Blacks can go through some curious colours on their way to developing their final coat - our boy went ginger in patches as a yearling, but is now a true black!
Keren |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 8:28:41 PM
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Not sure about the black; haven't ever had a blck unfortunately so not an expert there but he could be grey. I had a foal several years ago with a dorsal stripe but was a grey; the dorsal stripe was the only thing different from a normal grey. It went as the foal grew.
Barbara |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2009 : 9:06:33 PM
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No......dont think he will finish out Dun....my bet would be that he will be an ebony bay /Dark Bay with lighter muzzle. Not unusual to see dark Bay that colour as youngsters...and he looks quite backward in his moult to the other youngsters.
One of our Anglo fillies was born very pale...which can only describe as light honey coloured....hence her stable name was Honey. Below is a pic of her as a four year old....who would have thought she would have been such a dark mahogany bay. As a yearling she had quite a lot of blonde hairs in her tail and mane.
Honey (Sunray Summertime)
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 15 Jun 2009 10:28:42 AM |
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Havenbeech
Silver Member
Wales
427 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 07:03:48 AM
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Wouldn't it be fabulous if the dunning gene threw itself up in the arabian breed?!
Your boy does look unusual - heres some pics of my "buckskin" filly - she is 62.89% Arabian.
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www.havenbeech-stud.co.uk
Breeding Pinto & Dilute Part Bred Arabians & Welsh Ponies
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 10:33:04 AM
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What an outstanding true Dun, Part Bred Arab Filly. Yes, it would be super if there was a Pure Bred with that wonderful Yellow Dun colour.......looks really striking with the black points 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 11:15:50 AM
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Hello, i think it is you. I do remeber my husband saying there was something special about this young man, we have some loveley piccies of him.
I think he is gonna give you all a big surprise later on.
Best Wishes
Kim |
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Havenbeech
Silver Member
Wales
427 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 11:32:24 AM
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Does Pangre exist in purebreds? (not sure how you spell this!)
Just thought this colts apparently faded face could be brown with pangre.
I have a bay part bred colt who exibits this form of fading although as he is pale bay it isn't so noticeable - if he were brown or black i would imagine it would have a marked effect.
It isnt as obvious now as when first born but the mare has this paleing of the coat colour around her armpits, flanks and between her buttocks, she changes colour all the time even though she was a dark liver chestnut when i bought her, she gets lighter every year!
Is there a test for the Dun? or just cream - i'm not sure - off to look now! |
www.havenbeech-stud.co.uk
Breeding Pinto & Dilute Part Bred Arabians & Welsh Ponies
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 3:07:00 PM
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not sure either but im getting my purebred arab stallion tested for the silver gene this summer. This is his halfbred foal out of a black and white mare.
as a yearling
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Edited by - honey on 15 Jun 2009 3:15:45 PM |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 7:53:38 PM
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Originally posted by honeynot sure either but im getting my purebred arab stallion tested for the silver gene this summer. This is his halfbred foal out of a black and white mare. as a yearling
Pretty certain this is "just" black, not silver. Silver seems to be quite rare in any UK horses, and though I have been monitoring purebred Arabs for the colour (as have friends in the USA), we have not yet found an incontrovertible example.
Dun and buckskin are two different colours genetically: duns have an eelstripe, buckskins do not. Buckskin is produced by the action of the cream gene on bay - this is the same gene that produces palomino by diluting chestnut. Dun is produced by the 'grulla' gene, and comes in a variety of colours (eg red, apricot), unlike buckskin which is always a 'yellow' or pale cream with a black m/t.
Neither of these dilution genes exist in the purebred Arab, any more than tobiano pinto or frame overo pinto do. A form of pangare does exist in the breed, but it is much less strongly-expressed than in heavy horses or ponies, for example. The reasons for this are not yet fully known.
Keren
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 12:27:01 AM
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keren his bay foals don't have black legs either and have white through mane. the dark bay has red legs, and her mane at 2 1/2 has just started getting loads of white through it and same as her tail, and the other suspected as wild bay. the above foal was born with a black tail and typical bay coat.
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 11:07:08 AM
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Foals that will stay bay do not have black legs - the black develops as they get older, and may not be fully developed until they are as old as 5! White hairs in mane and tail are not unusual either - foals go through some very funny colour phases as they grow. My own bay stallion went so black when he shed his first coat I thought he would end up grey (grey sire); one year he even had definite brindling, but despite all that (and not having full black legs until he was 5) he is just a 'bog standard' bay (but a very pretty one).
I am lucky enough to have a good friend who is a colour genetics researcher in the US, who corresponds with Dr Sponenberg, and so far we have not yet managed to find a proven silver purebred Arabian - and we have been looking!
Keren |
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honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 11:13:21 AM
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| do you think its worth getting him tested anyway just incase or do you think it would be a waste of money getting him tested. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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kate b
Gold Member
Wales
1418 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 6:55:24 PM
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Havenbeech your buckskin filly is stunning! Is she Little Minx? If so I recall your posts about all the different shades she has gone through! My wish list is to one day own a dun/buckskin or palamino part bred arab!
Kate |
      
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Havenbeech
Silver Member
Wales
427 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 9:18:09 PM
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Thank you Kate B
Yes it is the Minxster herself - in yet another shade of gold (must admit a sunny day helped) LOL
She is still on the market too 
When people ask where i am and say bottom end of wales they make some feable excuse about me being too far away 
The curse of being welsh!! LOL
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www.havenbeech-stud.co.uk
Breeding Pinto & Dilute Part Bred Arabians & Welsh Ponies
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Onyx
New Member
England
18 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 2:57:28 PM
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Another part bred dun Arab/Highland here, now 11 moths old - showing that duns come in many colours!
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kate b
Gold Member
Wales
1418 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 7:35:20 PM
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Havenbeech - you must remember that Wales is a different country in some peoples eyes! Perhaps they think they need to show their passport when they hand over their money on the bridge LOL!
Kate |
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Dun Purebreds?
