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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
 Posted - 26 May 2009 : 7:56:28 PM
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I've had a worrying and frustrating couple of months with Po 
It all started two months ago when we were cantering in a field and a pheasant jumped out right in front of us. Po, as you can imagine, spooked and circled off away from it. The next day she had her ears back when I rode her and as Po always has her ears forward when riding her I knew something was up and called the vet. His diagnosis was that she had pulled some muscles on her back. She was given treatment and when I was due to ride her again she wasn't right so I left her longer. After a number of weeks of do this and that her back wasn't improving until finally she was booked into horspital to have her hocks x-rayed as they suspected a bone spavin was causing her sore back (no lameness, but her stride was short)
She went in 10 days ago and I got the bad news that she does have bone spavin. She went back into horspital last Thursday and got Tildren and hock steroid injections. She came home to a relieved mum on Thursday evening and spent Friday, Saturday and Sunday on box rest with some light walking out. Everything looks and seems ok, thankfully! She got out into the paddock yesterday and gave me a fantastic display of gallop, slide stops, bucks and spins  The vets instructions were that she is to have some light in hand work for the next two weeks until her check up so I guess that's her two weeks of light work over in 30 seconds! LOL
As you can imagine I have been researching frantically on this and my vet is a specialist in this field, so she's in good hands and I'm getting good advice. He assures me that turning them away for 1-2 years and the bones fusing just doesn't happen, (well, it does happen for approx 1 in every 400-500, so not good odds) It's about maintaining the arthritis now she has it, slowing the progress as much as poss and keeping her pain free. I do hope to resume ridden work asap and get on with things, albeit, sadly not endurance. Such a shame, my girl will miss it so much  I must admit I questioned whether the rigours of endurance caused this, however, Po has been in some horrific accident when she was between 1-2 and although I don't know what happened I'm convinced this has resulted in her having a way of going which over the years has weakened and eroded this joint. They tell me it would have came with or without the endurance, but I do wish I'd known this beforehand and I wouldn't have done any endurance in the hope that maybe it would have taken longer to develop. That said, we don't have many miles on the clock for endurance standards and I did take her nice and slow over the 3 years.
Anyone else dealing with this condition? I just can't believe how quickly it's all happened and that she's had no lameness. But I do understand it's all about the horses individual pain threshold and I'm assuming the spook at the pheasant was what tipped it for her. I'm trying to remain positive about it all but at the same time I'm scared. I understand that having them in work is good for the joints, muscles and their general well being, but I have an overwhelming feeling of wanting wrap her in as much cotton wool as I can possibly find as I want to keep her for a very long time 
Po on Sunday, the final day of box rest! Phew!
'Mum, you forgot to leave my door open last night! What's Polka eating?! I hope I'm not in here for the day!' I'm feeling great, lemme out!' 
Sorry for this post being so long! 
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Edited by - Fee on 20 Jun 2009 08:16:55 AM
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Red Rum
Gold Member
England
508 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 8:14:37 PM
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Hi I have a horse with bone spavin and he is fine. He is kept out all year round and has not been lame at all for the last two years.
He has pure glycosamin from Country Wide at £15 a tub and has never looked back. He is ridden and jumped without any problems and is not wrapped in cotton wool. I think leaving him out has helped.
Good luck.
Mandy |
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Mad arab rider
Silver Member
England
483 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 8:34:40 PM
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I know things have changed over the years, but we had a mare with a Bone spavin, who never came right. She had to be retired at the age of 9. Vet thought that her very bad start in life had played a major part in the problems. Not what you want to hear I know, but this did all happen many years ago and I'm sure treatments have moved on a long way since.
Cherie |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 9:30:55 PM
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| Glad you aren't despairing so much this week. Does the vet know you've turned her out ?? We have one at the moment who has been on box reat and his light inhand work is 2 x 5 minute sessions !! She's had quite an invasive prodceedure - hope all will be OK. |
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Otto
Bronze Member
England
119 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 9:59:16 PM
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My mare was diagnosed with spavins at the age of 17. Were advised to provide pain relief when necessary in the form of bute, and to continue to work her to help the distal tarsal bones fuse. She needed Bute on and off for 18 months and then remarkably went sound(although one hock has slightly less range of movement). She was able to continue successfully in showing and dressage for over 10 years. She is now 31 and still in active daily ridden work. I can honestly say the spavins now don't seem to cause her any problems- well they don't seem to have curbed her enthusiasm for galloping!
Wishing Po all the best of luck for the future
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 10:40:55 AM
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Sorry to hear about Po & wish her a good recovery.
Amigo my American Saddlebred was diagnosed with bone spavin in both hocks just over a year ago at the age of 8 - he has only ever done light hacking - but thought to have possibly been brought on conformation. Talking it through with Lisa our Vet (she posts on here as Lisa Rachel & her practive is purely equine) we decided to allow time for the spavins to fuse - so he was turned out for a year. Recent X-rays showed the joints have fused & he is sound behind Sadly he now has navicular in both front feet - so will never be the riding/endurance horse I had hoped he would be. |
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Miska
Gold Member
United Kingdom
627 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 11:34:36 AM
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We have a little 11.2 shetland x with spavins. He is ridden regularly, jumped and has even done a small xc. He is 8 years old and probably has spavins as the owners of his mum never knew she was pregnant until the day he was born and is was probably quite a big baby for a shetland mare.
He's had his hocks injected a few times and last time the vet said they had started to fuse and was amazed how much better his joints looked. So fingers crossed that he will continue to improve. He lives out.
I hope Po improves. x |
RIP Ettie 2003 - 2010 |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 12:37:08 PM
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Sorry to hear about Po My Khalifa was diagnosed with bone spavins in both hocks about two years ago at the age of seven. He has only ever been lightly hacked/schooled so it was a real shock. He was never lame until i started riding alot, then i noticed him dragging his hind feet and not coming through properly on a circle. I havent really changed anything as i never rode him alot anyway but he isnt lame and doesnt seem to be in any pain. I had wanted to do endurance with him but i'm happy enough to go for a plod and i do Parelli so there are endless things to do with him. Usually when riding i go at his pace so if he wants to go slow thats fine and if he wants to gallop i let him. I think they tell you what they want to do and if they are in pain.
Michelle |
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Nichole Waller
Gold Member
England
1168 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 3:13:23 PM
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Hi, Sorry to hear about Po. My Welsh x Arab mare was diagnosed with a Spavin in her right hind when she was 5. She had an injection in the joint and i was told not to jump or school her in small circles. The vet said if she was just lightly hacked (which is all she had ever done anyway) she would go on for many years...!
Up until Feb last year she was sound. She is now 16 so 11 years of light hacking wasn't bad. She went lame Feb last year and we have been through endless xrays, nerve blocks and scans etc to finally give her a diagnosis of Arthritis in both hind hocks and one coffin joint as well as early signs of navicular in one front foot.
She has had injections in all her joints and at Christmas she had her first Tildren injection. This did seem to help, as she was sound if ridden every other day (Two days light hack in a row and she was lame)At the end of March she had her 2nd Tildren injection (my vet said that is it now and nothing else they can give her) and that hasn't really made a lot of difference...
She is sound in walk but very slightly lame in trot...! The ground is very hard at the moment so i'm hoping when it softens up a bit she might feel better.
Because she puts weight on very easy she is kept in a small paddock (and gets hay every day) and i ride her in walk about 3 - 4 times a week. She is great to ride and lead from and at the moment is being a lead horse for my new un broken Arab.
As you can see from the posts above, it affects all horses differently. I would definitely keep her out as much as possible as it is better for them to move about so they don't get stiff, and if she is sound in walk maybe take her for a walk (either ridden or in hand) a couple of time a week so she has something to look forward to.
Hope she feels better soon. |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 7:58:42 PM
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Just to put a few bits in context...
Bone spavin is (obviously) degenerative arthritis of the hock joints. Bone spavin usually only involves the lower 2 of the 4 hock joints these two joints only account for a tiny fraction of the flexibility of the hock.
If , when spavin is diagnosed ( by intra-articular analgesia ie a joint block) the joints on radiography look good it is often worth trying to 'save ' the joints by using steroids, intra-articular adequan, chondroitin sulphate, glucosamine and maybe tildren. These medications help some but not all horses and often the benefit is of limited duration. This may mean that repeated joint medication is indicated or that they are now a 'lost cause' and it's better to fuse the joints.
If when spavin is diagnosed, the radiographs show that the joint is well on the way to fusing naturally as was the case in Judith's Amigo for example and the owner prefers a non interventionist approach the horse can be rested or safely worked on bute until the joints fuse, which happened in Amigo's case within a year. There are a significant number of cases where the hocks fuse naturally. In fact we see cases where the horse is lame on one hind leg with spavin but the sound leg has fused ie the owner did not realise the horse was lame when both hind limbs were affected (as Ghaleem did for example as she was sensitive to how her horse was moving.) but only noticed when there was a marked lameness in the as yet unfused leg. So don't discount natural fusion it happens plenty!
If this doesn't happen,and your vet is rightof course some horses just never fuse, even if they live to be 45!,or if a more speedy and permenant resolution is required surgical arthrodesis is an option. IE the lower two hock joints are destroyed by drilling them out under general anaesthetic, this sounds horrible but is straightforward and (ASSUMING the other, more important, two hock joints are not involved) is very successful. Basically bone is laid down to heal the damage caused by the drilling, the joint is totally fused and because it doesn't move it doesn't hurt....result SOUND HORSE!
Only a tiny fraction of the hock mobility is lost and we have fused hocks on horses that have gone on to perform very well in competitive disciplines, including dressage where hock engagement is so important.
So don't dispair there are loads of options and soundness is acheivable, and if a horse has to go lame I would rather spavin than a horrible tendon or suspensary ligament injury where there may be a permenant weakness, at least with spavin working on bute is a safe option and the horse can still have a fun life.
Cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 28 May 2009 8:06:37 PM |
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sapphire blue
Silver Member
England
440 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 09:47:48 AM
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Hi there my lad was diagnoised a few years ago and we had injections into the hocks that worked for a short time and then it was danilon at a varied dose as he got better/worse over the years and was to be ridden to help the joint fuse. He recently had a tildren drip as he wasn't eligable for the ethel alcohol as not enough room for the injection. he was to be walked in hand 20 mins twice a day for 2 weeks on 2 danilon and is just finishing his 2 weeks of 30 mins a day riding on 1 1/2 danilon, the vet came and has dropped the danilon to 1 a day and is back in 2 weeks to see if it can be stopped as he goes up to 45 mins walking and some trot. He was flextion tested on the visit, this normally crippled him but not a thing this time he is going really well. We were also advised to stop the glucosamine in his case as we wanted to destroy the joint not preserve it at this stage. Good luck but chin up Po will be fine in the end and my lad has shown and enduranced during htis when he is not on pain relief and I'v had no problems at all, the more he is ridden the better for him the joint fuses so no pain no lameness and it keeps him fit and mobile. |
Regards, Sapphire
   
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 10:22:36 AM
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Thanks for you replies everyone, it's so good to read others experiences of this and Lisa I do take great comfort in your opinion that it's better than a ligament or tendon injury, you're so correct and it's always good to get things into perspective, thank you  I do so hope that Po's is one of the ones whose joints fuse, but my vet is very much of the opinion that this is one of the biggest fallacies in the equine veterinary and horse owner world
I'm just so confused with the future exercise. I maybe can't see the wood for the trees but my understanding right now is that you must work them to keep the joints supple however the more you work them the more the joints will erode? I am fortunate that I now have Po out 24/7, that couldn't have come at a better time. Prior to that she has been stabled at night. The vet comes a week on Monday and I'll let you know the results of the check up.
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
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kath
Gold Member
United Kingdom
943 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 3:06:37 PM
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Oh Fee, i'm sorry to hear about Po :(
Flash went through the same sort of thing before he was diagnosed - he wasnt quite right for a while, we had his back checked, before the vet thought it might be his hocks. He had x-rays done & sure enough, he had bone spavin - though the vet was surprised at how mild the deterioration was considering his age (18 at the time) and the amount of work he's done over the years, coupled with his less than ideal conformation!
He never had injections, he only had Danilon whilst he was worked, for about 2-3 weeks i think. He was never lame, and he's been back in work since, though has semi-retired now for other reasons (mainly my lack of time!)
I was under the impression that you medicated the horse, through NSAIDS or steroids, and worked them to encourage the bones to fuse - but is this not the case, according to your vet?
I would definatley continue to keep her in at least light if not moderate work, i'm sure she will be happier that way too |
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 4:05:38 PM
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Hi Fee, thanks for that and yes i'll join I have had the worst luck with horses what with Ghaleem then just a year afterwards finding out about Khalifa but i have always been blessed with kind, sweet horses and thats all you can ask for isnt it? I have everything crossed for Ruwi to grow up healthy and sound and HOPEFULLY! one day we can do some endurance! But thats years away and so much can change, we just have to make the most of everyday with them cos you never know when its all gonna change.
One thing ive always wondered is that Khalifa was backed at three and although i never did too much with him i still feel bad incase thats the reason. I wont make that mistake with Ruwi but its sooo tempting to ride him
Michelle
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2009 : 08:33:58 AM
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Fee your vet is right natural fusion doesn't happen predicatably or reliably but it does happen, I can send you a disc of radiographs showing many horses whose hocks have fused naturally and who are now sound. We have had two in the last month where, as the horse is insured the owners have opted to go for surgical fusion to speed things up, we have done the least bad leg first (ie the one least bad on radiographs) in the hope that the second will fuse while the first is healing. In both these cases this has happened and both, one a warmblood mare, one a pony gelding are now sound and fused in both limbs.
I am not saying for one minute that we can RELY on natural fusion happening but in my experience it certainly does happen and is not a fallacy.
Fingers crossed Po will be fine , certainly sounds like she is in good hands.
Cheers
Lisa
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lisa |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 08:16:01 AM
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You know the saying that the darkest hour is just before the dawn...
Vet came out two weeks later to assess the hock injections and tildren treatment and he never even got as far as the hinds as she was lame on the right fore  With some pressing and prodding he suspected her coffin joint and said probably arthritis there too. I could have and saw before me a retired Po on long term pain killers.
That was the darkest hour...
I asked for a referral to the main equine hospital and i just can't believe everything that has come about in the last few days! Don't get me wrong it has been an extremely hard, emotionally draining and upsetting few days with big decisions to be made on behalf of my beloved horse.
Took Po in on Wednesday morning and she fully assessed by the consultant there and after lots of needles, blocks and trotting up she was given the thumbs up for the operation. The op i will give the bones the chance to fuse like nature would have it. It was so hard to make the decision to have your horse go through surgery but it offers her a 70% chance to return to normality with no pain and no drugs. I decided with much trepidation to go for it. She was kept in and admitted for surgery the next day! I was so terrified and Polka got many tears on her neck Wednesday evening when I came back with just a halter and no Po A sleepless night and long day to wait as I knew she was going in for surgery at 2pm (Thursday) I spent the day with Polka and we kept each other company missing Po.
Can you imagine my relief at 4.30 pm when I get a phone call to say the op went according to plan and she came out of the anesthetic without any trauma..... 
The fore lameness turns out to be a suspensory ligament and probably due to compensating for her hind.
I went to visit her yesterday at 4pm and OMG I can't believe how awesome she looked! She was like my old happy Po! I walked past the scanning room and did a double take as it was Po in there with the consultant and about 7 students. They were about to scan her right fore and she spotted me at the small window and started fidgeting and trying to turn towards me as if to say 'Hey you guys, look my mum's here!' They were very kind and let me in to watch everything. She was an absolute star, I had tears well up watching her stand there like a wee lamb with all these strange people and equipment around her while she got shaved, washed and scanned with no sedation, so proud of her. Her ligament has no major damage and she says the recuperation for it will match in very well with the recuperation of the hock surgery. She also said her bones on the front legs are excellent
She should be home beginning/middle of the week, one weeks box rest with lots of walking out and I'll be riding her in a few weeks. Just walking of course to build everything back up and balance the work to get those bones knitting together.
I had 3 hugs and kisses to give her from her closest friends and her daughter and I gave her another 20 from me She loved it. I'll go and see her every day until I get her home.
Let's just hope now she's in the 70%
I'd like to thank the ppl who responded on this thread which got me thinking and opened my eyes so that when the opportunity of another option came along I saw it and was able and willing to consider it. Thank you
Fee, Po and Polka xx
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 09:45:33 AM
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Hi Fee,
So sorry I have just seen this thread, what a traumatic time for you and lovely Po. I know what it's like when they are in for surgery it's just awful until you get the call to say they are fine and back up on their feet.
It all sounds promising now though so stay positive and hopefully she will be back to her usual self.
Keep in touch, call anytime if you need a chat,
Gail xx |
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donna72_uk
Gold Member
England
1123 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 10:08:32 AM
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Hi Fee just seen this as well,I do hope Po makes a good recovery i know how you feel when theres something wrong its so stressful.
Give her a hug and kiss from me x |
Donna
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kath
Gold Member
United Kingdom
943 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 12:32:57 PM
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| Thats sounds like a very traumatic time but hopefully she has come through it well. Fingers crossed for a great recovery |
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Otto
Bronze Member
England
119 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 1:54:18 PM
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wishing Po a speedy recovery, 70 percent is a pretty good chance!
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 2:20:01 PM
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Oh Fee, what a roller coaster the past few months have been for you!!
Wishing Po a speedy recovery! Bet she can't wait to get home to be with Polka again! |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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dreammagic
Gold Member
Scotland
641 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 3:06:08 PM
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OMG have just caught this tread, poor Po! Must have been awful for you.
Hope she gets better soon.
Anne x |
    
Equine Photograpic 1st 3 pics, JPS EQUINE 4th pic |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 4:01:25 PM
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Well done you to find other options and go for them, I hope she makes a full recovery and does you proud.
Ali |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2009 : 8:35:24 PM
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Thanks everyone I went to visit her today, I think she was glad to see me and gave me such a big hello. She directed me to all her itchy bits and then she showed me where the door opened and was nodding her head to tell me to open it, poor Po, she's absolutely bored out her mind. On the plus side she must be feeling good when she's telling me to let her out as it's time to go home! 
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Bone Spavin - Update!!
You just have to laugh...