| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
 United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 10:43:22 PM
|
Does anyone else own a Kamikarzi horse?
I have made the heartbreaking decision to not turn Dennis out with other horses any more. This totally goes against my principles in that I believe that horses, being a herd animal, should always have company. The trouble is he always ends up getting hurt and its his own fault. He is very boisterous and playful and doesn't take no for an answer. There is no malice in his play at all but he is rough - very rough.
I've tried him with different companions and etc and its always the same - HE ends up getting bitten or kicked. Three weeks ago he had a double barrel kick in the chest, resulting (sofar) in two vet visits, box rest and bute.
He's rising 6 now, does anyone else own a horse like this? Will he grow out of this behaviour?
Please don't think I'm daft but he looks so sad, he stands next the fence as close as possible to the others staring at them.
Vera and Dennis
|
    
Hampshire |
Edited by - Vera on 07 Jan 2006 10:48:50 PM
|
|
Report to moderator
|
|
|
georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 10:54:58 PM
|
Boys will be boys.
Would a dominant mare not sort his mischief out? |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 10:57:21 PM
|
Oh Vera that is heart breaking. The trouble is, his frustration at not being out with other horses might lead to other behavioural problems, but I really sympathise----you can't risk him getting hurt. Sounds like maybe he didn't have other foals to play with when he was little so doesn't know his own strength/limits maybe?
My Zaharoff is a bit like this--bites his friends a lot[(, but my mare Samantha is very good with him and doesn't take it personally enough to hurt him! Maybe choice of field companion is the key. If you could find a real matriarch, with a lot of natural authority, maybe a retired broodmare, she would be able to put him in his place without getting physical. My dearly departed old mare Rosa was wonderful at keeping order in a field full of boisterous horses---one LOOK from her and they stopped their shennanigans. |
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 11:06:00 PM
|
My mare was able to keep him in line until about a year ago when he realised that being much bigger then her he had the upper hand.
He is just under 16hh - she is 9hh!!
My Section A is a very dominent independant character and kicks (and bites) the living daylights out of him but he goes back for more.
His breeder told me that he used to get a good kicking from her lot and he always went back for more. In fact one of Dennis's claim to fame's is that the horse that played Black Beauty in the film with Sean Bean actually got so fed up with him that he tried to kill him!!!
Aparently his mum was very soft on him and didn't really tell him off.
Vera and Dennis |
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
spirit
Gold Member
England
567 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 11:24:53 PM
|
Oh vera, im sorry. I had to laught at Dennis, i was picturing everything.
Its such a pain when they are like this. We have alot more boys than girls on our yard, and all the trouble happens with the boys. The girls are always so quiet.
Have you got an old gelding on the yard that will tollerate him, but not join in, Dennis may learn to just accept his quiet company.
Otherwise yoou just have to rug him to the eyeballs and boot him up and hope for the best. Its such a pain! |
     
Cleworth Hall Farm
df.ballerina@googlemail.com
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 11:40:04 PM
|
There's only my three and I have two liveries but they keep themselves to themselves. Both are Section A's anyway.
Spirit - He WAS rugged and booted and he still got kicked hard!!!!!!!
Vera and Dennis |
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 07:45:23 AM
|
I am sorry to hear of the problem, Vera, and if Dennis has been with others all his life he will be unhappy away from the others. My stallion was with the others as a youngster and then had to be separated for obvious resons. I made him his own paddock at the end of the field. He paced the fence part of the day and was OK the rest of the time. I then bought some land the other side of the road and put him there and funnily enough he is better there than next to the others, quite the opposite of what I expected. He has recently got a pony mare in a paddock next to his field but as I had put Keepsafe fencing up because of a public foothpath on two sides of the field he is fine. She actually spends more time at the fence than him. He is better when his friends are out of sight than next to them. Might be worth a try if it is possible, they are all diffent and there is no one remedy.
The other solution would be to put an older gelding or dominant mare with him, he is obviously going to be a problem in a herd situation but may be better with just one companion.
Good luck, it is heartbreaking to see them unhappy or getting hurt all the time. Where are you, I have a 29 year old gelding who would put him in his place, he has always been very dominant and when he walks through the group it is like the parting of the Red Sea, boy do they respect him and keep their distance, NO ONE messes with him but now although he is still fast and fit if he did decide to chase Dennis he would out stamina him and keep out of trouble. Often once they really get the message the lesson is learnt and they do improve although he sounds as if he will be fairly dominant if he has learnt that he is now bigger and stronger than the mare so will probably be better with just one other horse with him.
Barbara |
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 09:25:03 AM
|
Dont you think he will be better when he is in regular work Vera,
sounds a bit like, a bit bored, what shall I do. thing.
Are you riding him yet,if so, try a few pleasure rides, they love it, and its so much more interesting than just schooling.
He will probably want to get his head straight down then, when hes turned out.
Pat |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 10:43:10 AM
|
I'd suggest having him in the same field but separated by electric fencing. Dennis is your show horse and you'd be devastated if he got a kick in the wrong place, like one of our mares did (fortunately not a show Arab) in the stifle. She's now crippled and can't be ridden...
I haven't dared risk Lance running with the others but they're all very happy in their paddocks next to each other, can nuzzle and groom each other and gallop about - thinking they're all galloping together - when something exciting happens. I know there would be spats because I've seen Otan try to go for Lance when I take out hay. It's only natural but it can have unforseen and dire consequences. |
Roseanne |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 12:39:01 PM
|
My gelding is 10 years old and still cant have buckets with handles
on!!!!
He thinks its funny to pick them up by the handles and lob them at the nearest person walking past.
And you still cant leave rugs on his door because he pulls them off
and wee's on them, BTW he was gelded at a year old so has no
testosterone left in his body whatsoever!!
He's just plain naughty
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 1:14:14 PM
|
My Section A gelding is 13 years old and is a dominent sort. He plays with Dennis up to a point but then Dennis gets too rough, he tries to get Dennis to back off but Dennis goes on and on at him so in the end Hero has to have an aggressive go at him to get him to back off. Then Dennis stands there nodding his head like a told off sulking child.
After Dennis got badly bitten on the face and lip a couple of months ago, I decided that they could no longer be out full time together (out during the day in the field). They were only allowed to be together for a few hours. This actually made Dennis's playful behaviour towards Hero worse.
So after that I allowed them supervised play sessions. It was during one of these that Dennis got kicked. I could not get across the field fast enough to seperate them from what I could guess was going to happen.
Most of the time I keep Hero next to Dennis and they do play over the fence which is electrified.
During the summer they were out 24/7 together. They grazed together and groomed each other so appear to be friends. Playing is the problem. Its like Dennis gets over excited and can't seem to help himself get rough.
I have never seen Dennis kick out at another horse but he does the play biting game. Hero grabs him by the troat which has left him with a couple of scars.
Pat, he is better off being in work but keeps getting hurt to the point that he can't be ridden! He was coming on so nicely that I picked up his brand new made to measure saddle THREE days before this happened so it hasn't even been sat on and I've had it a month! He's put on so much weight from being in on Ad lib hay I don't even know if it will fit :-o.
Barbara, I'm in southern Hampshire.
Roseanne, if Lance is G Lancelot then Dennis made his ridden debut in the class that Lance won (if I remember correctly) at Wessex Autumn!
Vera and Dennis
|
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 1:19:27 PM
|
LOL Janet, Dennis was also cut before a year old so he's just plain naughty too.
Vera and Dennis |
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Tonim
Silver Member
United Kingdom
430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 1:31:31 PM
|
I split Hartley and William as they kept injuring each other. They are both very playful but can play a bit rough which has resulted in vets bills for both of them. Before I got Hartley he'd never been turned out and so I don't think his social skills are that great. My old mare and gelding used to keep Hartley in his place but since I lost them and got William it's like he's got a death wish! William says go away and Hartley just thinks it's more exciting when he's angry and will start swinging off the back of Williams rug!. So I decided to try a trial seperation, they are in the same field but separated by electric fencing, Hartley walked up and down the fence for a little while but is now really settled with the arrangement. He's got an old bucket and a road cone in the field which he plays with usually throwing them over the fence at William!
I do feel a bit mean having them apart but they seem happy with the arrangement now and I have peace of mind. |
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 3:10:08 PM
|
Hi Vera
I was thinking that you colud loan my old boy, never yet seen a horse who would take liberties with him, to get Dennis settled in his field next to the others. They usually settle with a companoin even if it is an old grump like Sammy. He is wonderful with people but a real bully to other horses, rules the roost with a rod of iron. He is out quite happily with all mine but they give way to him; if he wants their pile of hay he takes it which is fine as the piles are well separated so the other horse just goes to a free pile. He is always first in the gate and no one even tries to get in until he is in at night. Pity you are not nearer as we are in Suffolk.
Barbara |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 6:53:15 PM
|
That is a very kind and much appreciated offer Barbara, shame I'm not nearer. I would never forgive myself if anything happened to Sammy though. I had an old girl and worried more about her the older she got.
What gets me is that I really look after my lot, I spend a lot of time with them and generally do the best I can for them. Yet others leave their horses, barely touch them, give them the minimum of everything and yet they never have a problem. Not fair!
Funny what you say about the hay piles, Dennis always gives way to Hero when he wants a particular hay pile. Mind you he (Hero) is really disgusting because he wee's on one pile then goes off and eats another, so I make sure they have at least 2-3 piles of hay each. Mind you they only get one pile each now they are in seperate fields Hero now longer wee's on his, now that's a clever pony!!
Vera and Dennis |
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 7:38:18 PM
|
Yes it was the same Lance Vera. I remember seeing you when Dennis was warming up (beautifully!) that day and realising it must be you - and it put the face to the Vera everyone knew on Arabian Lines, which I had only just started visiting!!
Dennis was very young but gorgeous looking and behaved brilliantly. I haven't seen him since so am looking forward to meeting up with you both this season I hope.
Unfortunately Lance has been out for a year after a rediculous field accident, of which I will post some warning details once we're really back in action. The 'touch wood' factor...
Personally, after seeing how my poor old mare is and on the advice of others, I think you should try to limit the possibilities of danger to a show horse, within reason and while giving them a decent horse's life!
|
Roseanne |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 7:54:38 PM
|
He went out on loan for the first time this summer for a couple of months to settle a new horse in his new home until they found another one for company and he was fine. It was very local and the horse he went with was from our village. As soon as they got another suitable riding horse he came home and he acted like he had never been away! I know from your posts, Vera, how caring you are and that you would have been very good to Sammy. He is 29 now and I have had him since he was a poor starved two year old (bought him because I though he wouldn't survive the winter where he was: I was actually looking for a 16 hand riding horse not a skinny two year old Arab, never even seen a pure bred Arab in the flesh before and he was no advert for the breed!!! I was at least his fourth owner that I know about, he refused to be stroked or fussed over, didn't really like people but after a while he came round and now loves people, a real sweetie.
I drew up a little contract for the people as he can't be insured for ilness. I made a decision once he (and the other old gelding I had) turned 28 that we would treat a colic but no surgery. I know he could go any time but so far he has had no health problems and is as fit as flea. Apart from routine things it must be 25 years since he has seen the vet. my other old gelding was the same and lived to almost 31, he just stopped eating and nothing we did could persuade him to eat, he had just reached the end of his road. I always said that I wouldn't be too upset when he went as he had had a good innings but I was devastated, I bought him when he was 8. If you do have a real problem with Dennis give me a ring and if you have stabling etc for him it might be possible to loan Sammy. As long as he is well fed and lots of fuss he will be happy. I know he could go at any time now he is 29 but so far he is well and still has a canter round the field with the others, everyone is amazed when they are told how old he is, his legs are still perfect, no lumps and bumps. His only problem is his teeth so I make his feed soft (soak his cubes) and he loves his food.
My phone number is 01449 737145 and after 8.30pm is the only time to get me as I am either at work or out doing the horses until then. I hate to think of Dennis unhappy, he is a half brother to my beautiful Khaleef.
Barbara |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 9:04:35 PM
|
Roseanne, by the time Dennis got in the ring he was shattered bless him. As he'd never been in a ridden class before Cindy wanted him well warmed up. But you're right considering he was only 4 at the time he was very well behaved. I have it all on video. Sadly Dennis has had the best part of last year off too. The vets put it down to growing pains and we never really did find out what was up with him other then knowing he wasn't right. He got the all clear but he's had no end of injuries since. Hero bit him badly on the lip, then he went lame after falling down a rabbit run which collaped as he was galloping around, really frightening that one as he had a really nasty fall and now this.
Hopefully we'll meet again this year - might be outside the ring but then you never know it might be inside .............
Barbara, reading your words brought a tear to my eye. I made Perissa the same promise. I actually lost her to colic when she was 27. The vet wanted her to go to hospital but I promised her that I would not do that to her. Like Sammy no-one belived how old she was as her legs were perfect, she shone like glass too.
Hopefully Dennis will cheer up when I put Hero next to him again so they can play over the fence. Dennis is out during the day but as he's on bute I don't want him hurting himself more or whatever. He doesn't pace the fence or look stressed but I put Holly's hay next to the fence so she is stood nearish him. She won't go too near though because he bites her bum!
What are your plans for Khaleef?
Vera and Dennis
|
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 9:05:54 PM
|
| Hi Vera~ Flame used to be in with the other horses where I keep him but being the youngest he was much more playful, and being an Arab much more intelligent and NEEDING more stimulationWhen I asked if he could have more grass the feild was divided by electric fencing and he was on his own. It's good because now I can give him as much grass as I need to but he is seperated fron 'the herd'.They are all older horses and he really did boss them about. He bonded MUCH closer to me which was good but I only spend 2-5 hours a day with him so he was billy no mates for the rest of the time. I'm sure Dennis will get used to a division but I do find Flame is more contented when worked. I don't know what you feed him but if you are giving him anything to give him energy that won't help.I hope it won't be too long before I find Flame the right horse to be his buddy,but that's another story! |
        |
Edited by - Deboniks on 08 Jan 2006 9:27:20 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
max
Silver Member
England
376 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 9:18:58 PM
|
Hi Vera
So sorry to hear about Dennis,as you know Max has no social skills with other horses(being hand reared and still entire)but living next to Nina has been the best thing for him,she puts him in his place,as suggested to you by others maybe a mare of similar hight may help,i hope you manage to sort it out soon. |
Sam Clyma
WKD Arabians
     |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 9:50:43 PM
|
Hi Sam,
Perhaps Dennis is coming out in sympathy with me, only we're lame on opposite legs. Wish me luck - hopefully it will be my last radiotherapy tomorrow.
Vera and Dennis |
Hampshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
max
Silver Member
England
376 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 10:02:59 PM
|
| Good luck for tommorow, im sure you will both be fine. |
Sam Clyma
WKD Arabians
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
max
Silver Member
England
376 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2006 : 10:03:55 PM
|
| Opps i ment tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!! |
Sam Clyma
WKD Arabians
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2006 : 8:22:31 PM
|
Hi Vera, hope all's gone well today...
Shows are something I'm really looking forward to this season. It was SO frustrating not being able to do anything last year and it was Lance's last as a junior. And we had deliberately taken it very slowly since he was backed because like Dennis, he grew big very quickly and needed time to mature. Hope we'll all meet up - maybe at the Wessex Spring? Lots of work to do - Lance has lost a year's schooling and fitness!
|
Roseanne |
| Report to Moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
Topic Locked 