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happyhorse
Junior Member
37 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 7:25:58 PM
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This is probably only relevant in Scotland.
Does anyone have any experience of access problems following the new access legislation introduced last year?
I want to ride in a piece of woodland near my house but the landowner has refused permission.
I contacted the local council access officer for Ross & Cromarty who agreed that I was within my rights to ride in this woodland and issued the landowner with a formal notice instructing him to unlock the gates and let me in. he has now appealed against that notice and I now have to go to court next week.
Does anyone have any idea of what will be involved when we get to court?
Highland Council who issued the notice will be represented by a solicitor, so will the landowner but I can't afford to do that.
Any advice or information will be much appreciated.
For anyone interested new legislation was introduced in Scotland last year giving access rights to all areas for horse riders. The landowner is not allowed to refuse access. The rider though has to act responsibly i.e be careful around livestock etc
Thanks
Paul
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 7:48:51 PM
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Didn't know anything about this law. Will it apply in England eventually? I hope so. At the moment our farmers leave big 'headers' uncultivated around their arable fields. The hunt is allowed on them but if the landowner sees the odd horse or two hacking on them, he challenges them and tells them off. They are meant to be part of the European 'stewardship' scheme and the landowner gets grants for leaving them - I believe for wildlife preservation and so the sprays don't reach the hedgerows; which is all good but I can't see why horse hooves going over will make a big difference.
I think you're brave to pursue this case and I'm sure we all wish you the very best of luck. Do let us know what happens - and your local paper who will be happy for the story and it'll give others the impetus to take up the new opportunity. |
Roseanne |
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Lisa
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2611 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 7:59:28 PM
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| Don't want to get shot here but if I was the landowner I wouldn't be too happy about people riding on my land whether it was legal or not! |
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Libby Frost
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4711 Posts |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 09:37:07 AM
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| I too hope this law won't come to England....My own horses have to stay off the land in the winter to save it from becoming a bog, can't imagine happy hackers being so considerate. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 11:57:43 AM
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With no knowledge of this new Act I looked it up and have copied the condensed version below. It is rather long I'm afraid and for those who can't be bothered to read it it more or less says the only places people can't roam are golf courses when people are playing, people's gardens, buildings, commercial premises etc.
It also says landowners can't try to deter people with signs, barbed wire or even deliberately placed animals (such as bulls?) and the local councils can go and remove or take away any such impediments to people's access.
There will also be access forums whose job it will be to ensure people's rights are respected.
It is certainly a very radical 'opening' of the countryside which would create a lot of disturbance in England I'm sure. It does seem a bit churlish to prevent people going into woods (such as Paul wanted) or set-aside that doesn't have stock or crops in. Equally I can see Sue, Libby and Lisa's point that if you had your own land and anyone could open the gates and ride through, it could cause all sorts of problems. An interesting one to watch! It may be possible to see if DEFRA is thinking about introducing it here in England.
Summary of the Scottish Access Legislation The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 received Royal Assent in February 2003 after lengthy debate in the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code was approved by the Parliament in July 2004. The Act, and Code, came into effect on 9 February 2005. Sections: 1. Access Rights 2. Exercised Responsibly 3. Obligations of owners 4. Access Rights Modifications 5. Access Rights-Reciprocal Obligations 6. Land where Access Rights not Exercisable 7. Provisions Supplementing and Qualifying Section 6 8. Adjustment of land excluded from access rights 9. Conduct excluded from access rights 10. Scottish Outdoor Access Code 11. Power to exempt particular land from access rights 12. Byelaws 13. Duty of local authority to uphold access rights 14. Prohibition signs, obstructions, dangerous impediments 15. Measures for safety, protection etc. 16. Acquisition by Local Authorities 17. Core Paths Plan 18. Core Path Plans: further procedures 19. Power to maintain core paths 20. Review and amendment of core path plans 21. Path Agreements for land subject to access rights 22. Path Orders for land subject to access rights 23. Ploughing etc 24. Rangers 25. Local Access Forums 26. Powers of entry 27. Guidance 28. Judicial determination of existence and extent of access rights and rights of way 29. Powers to protect natural and cultural heritage etc 30. Existing byelaws providing for public access to land 31. Application of section 15 to rights of way 32. Interpretation Schedule 2(end of Bill) Section 1 - Access Rights “Everyone has the statutory rights established by this part of the Act” These are the rights to be on (for the purposes below) and to cross land. Land includes all land, plus inland water and intertidal foreshore, plus above or below land. The right may be exercised only: #56256;#56451; for recreational purposes; #56256;#56451; for the purposes of carrying on a relevant educational activity, or; #56256;#56451; for the purposes of carrying on, commercially or for profit, an activity which the person exercising the right could carry on otherwise than commercially or for profit. “Relevant educational activity” is defined as an activity which is carried out for the purpose of furthering the person’s understanding of natural or cultural heritage, or enabling or assisting any other persons to further their understanding of the natural or cultural heritage. Section 2 - Access rights to be exercised responsibly ..if they are exercised so as not to cause unreasonable interference with any of the rights of any other person, inc access rights, rights associated with land ownership, etc. Section 3 - Obligations of owners – Duty to use and manage land and to conduct ownership in a way which respects access rights. Section 4 - Modifications of Sections 2 and 3 These are provisions for Ministers to modify any provisions of sections 2 (Access rights to be established responsibly) and 3 (Reciprocal obligations of owners), and for the purposes of these sections, any of the provisions of sections 9 (conduct excluded from access rights), 14 (duty of local authority to uphold access rights) and 23 (ploughing of paths).
Section 5 - Access Rights, reciprocal obligations, etc. This section confirms that the ‘liability’ situation remains unchanged, with a statement that the extent of the duty of care owed by a land occupier to anyone on that land is not affected by the Bill. Section 6 - Land over which access rights are not exercisable Land over which access rights are not exercisable includes: • a building or other structures or works, plant or fixed machinery (“Structures” is later defined as not including bridge, tunnel, causeway, launching site, groyne, weir, boulder weir, embankment of canalised waterway, fence or wall or anything designed to facilitate passage). • curtilage of buildings other than houses, works compounds, schools; • around houses, sufficient adjacent land for a reasonable measure of privacy, and for the enjoyment of the house not to be unreasonably disturbed; • land developed or set out as a sports or playing field, or for a particular recreational purpose; • that excluded by virtue of past entry by payment ( the 90 day rule); Section 7 Provisions Supplementing and Qualifying Section 6 Section 6 does not prevent or restrict the exercise of access rights over any land which is a core path. Section 6, where applicable to sports or playing fields or land developed for a particular recreational purpose, applies only if they are being used for that purpose, or at all times for prepared areas like golf greens, bowling greens, cricket squares, synthetic pitches etc. The Section 6 “90 day rule” on admission by payment does not prevent the exercise of access rights by classes of persons who have not previously paid for access within the terms of the 90 day ruling. (Plantations of trees even at an early stage of growth are now within access rights). Grassland is not exempt from access rights, except for hay and silage which is at such a late stage of growth that it is likely to be damaged by exercise of access rights. Headrigs, endrigs and other margins of fields where crops are growing are not defined as crops, whether sown or unsown, and are therefore within access rights. Section 8 - Adjustment of land excluded from access rights Ministers may by order modify any of the provisions of sections 6 & 7. Section 9 - Conduct excluded from access rights The following conduct is outwith access rights: • hunting, shooting, fishing; • on land when responsible for dog or other animal not under proper control; • taking things away from the land for commercial purposes or for profit; • being in or with a motorised vehicle or vessel (other than one constructed or adapted for use by a person who has a disability, being used by that person); • Being on a golf course for recreation, although a right of passage still applies. Section 10 Scottish Outdoor Access Code SNH has a duty to draw up and issue the Code and this requires guidance to be issued on stated circumstances in relation to access rights. It is the duty of SNH and LAs to publicise the Code and for SNH to promote understanding of it. Section 11 - Power to exempt particular land from access rights This provides powers to LAs to exempt land by Order from access rights. Before making orders, LAs will have to consult landowners and local access forums, give public notice, invite objections. If the exclusion is to last for 6 days or more Ministers must approve the Order. If for five days or less, the LAs need not involve Ministers. A Minister-approved exemption order can last a maximum of 2 years. Section 12 Byelaws LAs can make byelaws over access land for various purposes, eg. preserving public order, preventing damage or nuisance, conserving natural or cultural heritage.
Section 13 Duty of local authority to uphold access rights It is the duty of LAs to assert, protect and keep open any route, waterway or other means by which access rights can reasonably be exercised. LAs do not have to pursue the above duty if it is inconsistent with carrying out other LA functions. Section 14 Prohibition signs, obstructions, dangerous impediments Landowners must not prevent or deter access users by erecting any signs or notices; putting up fences, walls, hedges; positioning at large any animal; undertaking agricultural or other operations, or any other actions. LAs can remove any such notices or carry out other remedial action if needed. Section 15 Measures for safety, protection etc. LAs can warn of hazards, and can require that any fences, walls etc which may be a risk of injury (eg barbed wire, sharp material, electric) should be remedied to remove risk of injury. LAs can install gates, stiles, seats toilets etc anywhere with landowners’ agreement, and moorings and launch sites have been added to structures which can be installed and maintained by LAs. In exercising powers under this section, LAs shall have regard to the extent to which existing facilities assist persons to exercise access rights, and have regard to the needs of persons with disabilities. Section 16 Acquisition by Local Authorities LAs can acquire land for access purposes either by agreement, or compulsorily if approved by Ministers. Section 17 Core Paths Plan LAs have a duty to draw up a core path plan within 3 years. Core paths may include right of way; paths, footways, footpaths, cycle tracks; paths which are or may be covered s20 path agreements and s21 path orders; and other routes, waterways or other means by which persons may cross land. The core path plan will have regard to the likely usage and desirability of paths, and a balance with landowner interests. Section 18 – Core Path Plans: further procedures Section 18 gives further guidance on drawing up the core path plan, giving notice, adopting it, appeals and inquiries, and Ministerial input when needed. LAs need to compile a list of core paths but this does do not require to indicate the extent of public rights. Section 19 Power to maintain core paths The LA may do anything which they consider appropriate for the purposes of: #56256;#56451; Maintaining a core path; #56256;#56451; Keeping a core path free from obstruction or encroachment; #56256;#56451; Providing the public with directions to, or with an indication of the extent, of a core path. Section 20 Review and amendment of core path plans Core path plans must be amended by LAs #56256;#56451; As such times as they consider appropriate; #56256;#56451; On ministers requiring them to do so. After reviewing a core path plan, it may be amended to remove or divert core paths or add further core paths, but only after consideration for the likely use of the core path and the effect on land served by the core path. A core path plan must be amended following core path stopping up or diversion orders under s208 of the TCPS 1997 Act. Sections 21 Path Agreements for land subject to access rights LAs have the power to enter into a path agreement for the delineation, creation and maintenance of the path. There is no requirement to register the agreement. Section 22 Path Orders for land subject to access rights LAs have the power to make path orders which delineate existing or new paths, in circumstances where path agreements are impracticable, and must maintain existing paths and create and maintain new paths delineated in this way. (Schedule 1 to the Bill gives further procedures on this).
Section 23 Ploughing etc Where core paths and rights of way are disturbed by ploughing or other activities for reasons of good land husbandry, the owner of the land or path must reinstate the core path or right of way within 14 days. It is an offence not to reinstate and LAs may on notice undertake the reinstatement themselves and recover the cost, if the owner does not comply. Section 24 Rangers LAs may appoint rangers to advise and assist land owners and members of the public with access rights. Section 25 Local Access Forums It is a duty for each LA to establish for its area a local access forum for the following functions: • To advise the LA and other persons or bodies consulting the forum on access rights, rights of way and core path plans; • To offer assistance to parties in any disputes about access rights, rights of way, core path plans and the use of core paths. More than one local access forum may be established for the area of a local authority. Section 26 - Powers of entry Local authorities are empowered to authorise persons to enter land, at reasonable times and after giving notice unless for an emergency or to do with a core path, and to take relevant equipment with them. Section 27 Guidance Ministers may give guidance to local authorities on the performance of any of their functions over access rights, having consulted and put it before Parliament. It can apply generally or to a particular LA, and the LA must have regard to it. Section 28 Judicial determination of existence and extent of access rights and rights of way Applications can be made to the sheriff to declare whether:- • land is exempt or not from access rights; • a person is exercising access rights responsibly; • an owner is managing land responsibly; • a path is a right of way. It also sets out rules of procedure over the role of the LA and other parties, and for notification. Section 29 Powers to protect natural and cultural heritage SNH may put up and maintain notices for the purposes of protecting the natural heritage of land in respect of which access rights are exercisable. Any notice put up may warn persons of any adverse effect that their presence on the land, or any activities they might conduct there, might have on the natural heritage sought to be protected. A similar power for Scottish Ministers in respect of cultural heritage applies to cultural heritage. Section 30 Existing byelaws providing for public access to land It is the duty of all authorities having existing byelaws relating to public access land in respect of access rights to review those byelaws within 2 years, and modify them to remove any inconsistencies with the new access rights. Section 31 Application of section 15 to rights of way This confirms that sections 14 and 15 above apply to rights of way by foot, horseback, pedal cycle or any combination of these as well as to general access rights. Section 32 Interpretation This provides definitions for various terms used, eg. ‘core path’ means a path, waterway or other means of crossing land such as is mentioned in section 17; the term ‘local authority’ includes the National Park authority for a national park which is designated as such when the legislation comes into force. Schedule 2 ( at end of Bill) This specifies all the amendments and repeals of other sections of other acts arising from this Bill, including the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967, and the Conservation (Natural Habitats etc) Regulations 1994. For further advice on access legislation, please contact Rob Garner at Rob.Garner@snh.gov.uk, 0131 446 2490. |
Roseanne |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 3:11:45 PM
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Thanks for such good info Roseanne.
A few years ago we paid over £3,000 to have a bridle way moved (Legally) to the edge of our land so horse users, including me, could actually ride along it. Before it's move, walkers with dogs would trundle through with dogs barking and chasing anything on four legs. If we asked walkers to put dogs on leads, the response was unprintable!
I can see Paul's problem with the woods, hope it gets sorted in his favour, but it is a very tricky unwelcome bill.
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 3:30:44 PM
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There is a stud here in Aberdeenshire (not Arabs) who had to have a stallion operated on because a dog grabbed its penis (obviously giving it an airing, or perhaps staling)when he was in his field and would not let go!! The horse survived and I am sure the owner said he is still a stallion.
Ok., not likely to happen that often, but it certainly gives an idea of what can happen.
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 3:42:12 PM
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Just a thought but do Access Rights only apply to walkers, once on a horse different rules may apply.
Vera and Dennis |
    
Hampshire |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 7:19:54 PM
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Far too long to plough through I know but in Section 31, about three quarters the way down, the Act suggests horses are included and refers back to Sections 14 and 15 which say the local authority can actually go and put in stiles and things to improve the access.
Most dog owners are pretty good but I've come across some who seem to know nothing about the countryside, stock and horses who have given me real problems, especially hacking out youngsters. I once had a filly out on her first hack alone have a rottweiler cross whose owner had brought it out with no lead (!) charge at us at top speed from across the field. I got off to walk towards it and defuse the situation and fortunately we had collies at the yard so she wasn't too scared but it could have been a nightmare. |
Roseanne |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 7:33:33 PM
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Like Vera - I thought the "right to roam" access thingy etc - applied to walkers - NOT horse-riders! Horse riders have not been given the "right" - they can still only go on official bridlways (or land with the owners permission) - I thought - or am I wrong??
As far as dog owners being in control - I had what could have been a VERY interesting experience a couple of years ago whilst competing on an Endurance Ride in the Forest of Dean - on FC land - I was chased by two totally out of control Great Danes - their owner was totally feeble & had abso no control whatsoevere over his dogs!!! Thankgod my horse wasn't phased by the experience & didn't try to bolt as they were snapping at his heels!!! I was wishing that he would kick them - but he didn't! SHAME Eventually when the dogs lost interest & their owner was within shouting distance - I suddenly became VERY un-polite & said he should keep his dogs on their leads.............I don't know what came over me!!!!! :))))!!!!!!
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 9:38:57 PM
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Paul's dispute is in Scotland with the new access law. It doesn't apply in England or Wales (yet).
I'm sure lots of riders have had difficulties with dogs. I think the problem is that many dog owners don't realise the nature of their pets, alone or in packs. It can be very frightening even for those who know their horses well, but it makes you wonder whether you'd ever let your children go riding out alone! |
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happyhorse
Junior Member
37 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 10:53:19 PM
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Just back from Edinburgh and surprised to see some of the responses.
The new access legislation in Scotland gives all members of the public access to all areas as long as they are responsible.
Dog owners have to be in control of their dogs at all times, otherwise if landowners are perfectly entitled to ask them to leave or if worrying any stock shoot them. This is not new in Scotland.
Responsible access does not only mean going on the land and using it. Responsible access means not using it if the ground cannot cope or may be excessively damaged. It also means co-operating with landowners to ensure that the countryside is available for everyone to enjoy. This means helping maintain paths, clear dung from paths and respect other peoples rights.
In Scotland walkers have always had the right of access. There has never been a trespass law. The new legislation extends that right to horse riders, cyclists and other recreational users of land and waterways.
The main driver behind the legislation was the Scottish Executive trying to encourage recreational use of land and outdoor activities particularly for youngsters, get them outdoors and away from the box etc.
My main reason for requesting access to the wood concerned is for taking youngsters and introducing them to horse riding. I can't see a more healthy (except on dad's bank balance) pastime for kids. I didn't really get the opportunity to ride until I was 40 and am determined that every kid that wants to can have the chance to at least try horse riding.
Landowners are not happy with the new laws. Understandable in lots of cases.
The main theme though is responsibilty, and if we all act responsibly there is no reason why everyone who wants to cannot enjoy the whole of the countryside.
Paul |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 09:20:34 AM
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As Scotland has been used to the right to roam for walkers before this new act came in to being, I would have thought that you should not have too much trouble in getting consent to ride through some woods.
Maybe in Scotland people are more responsible, but I can assure you they are not so here!
We have our annual holiday pilgrims who bring sweet doggies that have never seen a farm animal. We also have a new generation (it seems) of horse riders who have absolutely no manners to anyone. To even squeeze a smile of thanks for stopping in ones car to let them by is fast disappearing.
Don't shoot me now, but the general public makes me dispare.........
Grumpy old women syndrome I think! |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 12:07:07 PM
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I must be one too Sue. My gripe is with dog owners really but I think a lot of the problem is ignorance. They really don't know what it can be like to be on a horse that fears a 'black panther' galloping towards it... How can they be expected to know what a horse's nature is - or a dog's for that matter? No one's ever told them. But they are in the majority. Most people have a dog and it's risky to criticise the owners...
No excuses at all for riders, young or not, to be impolite. They should be making every effort to get motorists to be sympathetic and considerate. |
Roseanne |
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JMRT
Gold Member
England
562 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 12:50:07 PM
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| Contact the bhs & they should be able to advise you on this subject |
Julie
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happyhorse
Junior Member
37 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2006 : 7:31:14 PM
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I'm not a member of BHS, I had a slight disagreement with the local comittee a few months ago.
However the BHS access officer is involved and has been great.
Paul |
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