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swalk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
769 Posts |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 2:09:55 PM
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Before we critisise other countries,we should look in our own back yard.
Yes there is a different way of horsemanship around the world but it is their way.
I watched the program and felt that the actual riding was good.
I am not into high school riding but some of the moves were amazing.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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vanishtrik
Bronze Member
England
136 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 2:25:25 PM
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| gossy, i think your taking 'the broadcasting of cruelty to animals' totally out out of context of what the documentaries all about, i hate to see suffering of animal or human, but i do think people need to know what goes on in other cultures. i wonder if as many people would have complained if it had gone out on the discovery channel or animal planet, oh and what about pet rescue all that cruelty,i dont like that program |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 2:34:38 PM
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I think what people are complaining about here is the slant of the programme--- that the torturing of bulls was dismissed as an aside. Also, as Swalk says, there was no in depth look at the horses themselves, how they are treated, docked, hogged etc. and what happens when they are injured by bulls.
I would have been happy with a programme that reported accurately about the suffering involved, because that would have shown the barbarity of this blood sport to the viewing public, and would maybe stop tourists supporting it when they go to Spain.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 2:50:08 PM
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Sorry....again the difference is, cruelty and abuse will always go on as long as there are Humans on the planet....and those that will PAY for the pleasure of witnessing such abhorrent spectacles
At least caring folk can report animal/pet cruelty to the various
animal protection societies, and hopefully bring the perpetrators to justice, not so when it comes to blood sports!!
What chance do we have??, when blood sports create vast sums of income for the Governments....it is very unlikely that heads of states will ban these vile unacceptable `traditions` !! The old saying "money is the route of all evil" springs to mind, when applied to these situations.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 16 Apr 2009 6:28:25 PM |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 2:54:46 PM
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Absolutely 100% agree Zan.
We need to see these programmes but they need to be factual on all counts - not just the fluffy bits.
I wasn't that repelled by the embryo transfer as I don't think there is any cruelty involved as such - however I do find it morally wrong. I do strongly object to the host mare not being allowed at have a foal of her own but this programme did not tell that part of the story. I sincerely hope that she is allowed to have a foal of her own.
I could have smacked Alexandra in the mouth for all the rubber doll remarks and stupid giggles. Its mating, fact of life - get over it!!
Next week we have
3/3 Montana. In the western US state Alexandra meets modern-day cowboys, rounds up buffalo with Native American herders and enters a rodeo........
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Hampshire |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 3:42:06 PM
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i have mixed feelings about it.
I enjoyed watching the horses, who i thought were just beautiful.
Felt gutted for the mares, and their foals "products" they are living beings, and i also felt et was wrong, so very wrong, all so they can get more "products".
All those mares lined up, must be causing havoc with their hormones.
I also felt very bad for the bull, but at the same time, in awe of the horse's in the ring with that bull.
They are amazing horses.
Alexandra i feel isn't a true horse lover. |
pagey |
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ashabarab
Gold Member
England
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 3:47:30 PM
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we get so few horse programs as it is and this one could have been so good, but the silly oh so false remarks made me want to scream....l too wish it had shown more about the horses..
l did not want to see the bull fighting, but did think the horses were stunning, and l agree it did look like a travel program, as if they have squashed a two hour program into an hour
the breeding facility looked like a factory, but l would have been interested in how they grade their stock
ash |
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guisburnfeefee
Bronze Member
167 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 3:57:00 PM
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| Ok so everyone seems to have pretty strong views about this prgramme - would those views be as strong if it were about cows or pigs or chickens? Do those with strong views about bullfighting have similar views on hunting or even an owl killing it's prey? Of course bull fighting isn't natural but an owl killing it's prey or a hawk attacking a smaller beast and then dropping it and leaving it for dead is natural and could be said to be cruel. Whilst I applaud all for providing their own personal views it is not for us to push our views onto others. I have a lot of strong views on a lot of things including riding practises - I've seen enough to know that the Spanish and Portuguese don't all treat their horses like pets - they do a job of work. My instructor is Portuguese and I am always worn out after 45 mins lesson as is my horse.The horse and rider are expected to work during the lesson and after all it is only 45 mins out of a 24 hour day. The Spanish work ethic is different to ours - certinly with the horses and whilst i am under no illusion that not all spanish trainers/studs etc are perfect neither are all of their british counterparts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and shouldn't be lambasted simply because they have voiced it epecially on such an emotive subject. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 5:07:52 PM
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The comparison here is that wild animals/birds/creatures kill their pray to survive...........just as we do with our cattle, sheep, pigs, poultry. All killing of a living being is cruel in that respect.
I am an animal lover, but not a veggie, the fact remains that only humane destruction of our food animals, is the Law and Vets
are in regular attendance at abbatoirs... The farm animals are bred for the food chain. Provided they have had a happy stressless life, are dispatched quickly and painlessly without fear, I still do find it a cruel but acceptable fact of life!!
Blood Sports are a completely different scenario....a paying public
gaining PLEASURE from watching a defenceless animal or creature (who does not have a `sporting chance`) being tortured unmercifully to its death. What does this say about such persons????
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 15 Apr 2009 6:03:42 PM |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 5:30:23 PM
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Totally agree with Zan and Babs,in my opinion anyone who enjoys blood sports is SICK!! |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 6:08:56 PM
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I have to say, that was a very glossy portrayal of the bullfighting scene. After last week's show I was prepared to see the demise of the poor bulls and terrible injuries to the "ordinary" horses used to tire out the bulls before the top bullfighters take over.
I was even half expecting a donkey to be tipped off the church tower 
There was no mention of the ways of keeping the stallions, unlike the praise given to the free lifestyle of the Siberian ponies.
I'd much rather see the lifestyles "warts & all" than this week's dilute offering.
Some incredibly beautiful horses on the stud farm though. |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 7:36:31 PM
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| I know that they do not treat their horses as we do,i worked for the Greek Olympic Team in Greece and even with money they treated their horses appallingly, therefore i have experience but i do not want to see a horse being killed or any other animal, i agree with Babs with regards to nature, wild animals have to kill to survive, i dont like it but have to accept it, what i would question is that if the people in the previous programme were in such dire conditions no supermarekts around etc, how come they could find enough food to feed the horses to fatten them up for them to eat, they could of eaten what the horses had to, they would still survive surely.I am against hunting of any animal (bloodsports)same as Susan P stated is sick. |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 9:33:16 PM
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| Ooooerrr........people do get excited. I enjoyed the programme, so must be a blood sucking, sadist. But hey ho. Hey people, if you don't like a programme, don't watch it............ I for one enjoy learning about other cultures. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2009 : 9:42:12 PM
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I enjoyed the programme, so must be a blood sucking, sadist.
Say it like it is Pashon 2001 !!!!!! |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 01:59:37 AM
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There is something rather nasty coming through here with some of you anti's, and if you re-read some other threads on this forum it is the same people, time and time again. Zan, Gossy, Babs r, Susan p, there is a real aggression coming through just because some people have suggested that the programmes have been quite watchable and informative. You all seem to refer back to each other in your postings as if you are using each other to confirm your positions. It happens everytime!!!
You and the rest of them seem to act like the thought police and if others dare to question you, you come across in a particulary nasty manner. Listen to others comments, this is a democracy afterall but just cos we don't agree don't dismiss others as animal haters. It is really quite disturbing.
I don't doubt that none of you are not sincere in your postings but please let others express their opinions. Dont lets see aggression or get personal Susan p!!!!!!
Nicky
ps for the record I loathed seeing the bulls being hurt, and do not agree with bull fighting, but I should hate for the BBC or any other corporation to feed us "nice" dont disturb the viewers documentaries. Intelligent people wish to be informed and to stay informed not spoon fed drivel and my little pony!! |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 09:02:21 AM
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Nicky, I don't think you have read the content of my posts here . I, and many others, far from wanting "spoon fed drivel and my little pony" have been complaining because this programme did not have enough accurate information and glossed over the realities to portray a false, glossy image.
Please don't attack people for agreeing with each other- it is the nature of a discussion that those who agree will want to say so, and those who don't are entitled to state their opinions and agree with each other also. This is a "discussion" and people will answer other people!
As for real aggression coming through---I thought this was quite a civilised discussion, and I have certainly been aggressive to no one. My feelings on animal issues are very strongly felt, for which I make no apology, and I think it is sad that it is seen as extremist to defend their rights on a horse forum. |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 11:59:25 AM
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Nicky, You have your opinions we have ours, just because some of us stand up and fight for our convictions why should that be wrong?? the nastiness and personal comments are not coming from any of us! animal cruelty is animal cruelty, full stop. And i will continue to support the organisations that seek to banish all animal cruelty.
And i will lobby all to get it banned from tv.
Just because we dont agree with you, doesnt give you the right to insult us, we are all very intelligent people,which is why we have made the decisions we have. |
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Edited by - gossy on 16 Apr 2009 12:02:42 PM |
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 12:28:26 PM
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Zan, I did not mean to upset you and I respect your views. I abhor animal cruelty, but don't want it removed from our screens. We have to let people form their own opinions, and lets face it the majority of people who watched these programmes are totally against animal cruelty and no doubt most felt repulsed by it too. It is like nuclear weapons, child abuse, abuse in old peoples homes, etc., sometimes we get the truth from the media and sometimes it is glossed over.
It is hoped there that the vast majority of the human population will think reasonably and take a view and therefore make a judgement. Some will feel they wish to pursue the courage of their convictions and do anything to stop what they feel is so wrong, others as we all know from experience will suffer from apathy!! That is human nature.
Gossy,I understand your viewpoint too, and as I have said myself, I loath with every fibre of my being animal cruelty. I too consider myself intelligent, I am certainly not stupid, and whilst the contents of these programmes may not have been to your liking or others, most of us were able to see through the glamour and glitz and see the cruelty that was on offer.
There is, and I stand by this still much aggression when it comes to animal activists comments especially on this thread. There is certainly no aggression from those who expressed an interest in these programmes. At the end of the day diplomacy and calm will get results not bullying.
Nicky |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 3:09:07 PM
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Nicky you didn't upset me I can only say again, because you just don't seem to be taking it in, that far from wanting this programme removed from our screens, I think this was a sanitised version of what goes on and did not state clearly enough what happens to the bulls and the horses involved.
I don't agree that there has been aggression and bullying about this programme. Perhaps you are being a bit defensive as the subject was widened to all blood sports, since I seem to recall you are very pro fox hunting.
I agree entirely that diplomacy and calm ( I am very calm ) always get better results than bullying. |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 6:13:58 PM
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[right]Originally posted by nicolanapper
I think the BBC cant win, glad so many of you have so little going on in your lives that you find time to complain to the BBC about a few bulls!!!
Actually Nicky,if you knew me,which you don't,you would no that I have got far too much going on in my life to complain to the BBC,or infact post on here as often as you do.Having said that I will make a point of doing it in this case because of the particularly bad way that the programme dealt with animal cruelty issues.I was simply quoting Pashon.I would never have said that and felt it was a bit of an over reaction to the posts of others,I never show any aggression or get personal,why would I? I simply said any one who enjoys watching blood sports is sick,that is my opinion and I stand by it,I am sorry if it upset you or touched a raw nerve.
Susan
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2009 : 7:17:32 PM
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As can be seen from my posts on this topic, I am very passionate about cruelty to animals, particularly blood sports, and have expressed my feelings in likewise manner...not aggressive and no way trying to be nasty or "push" my opinions onto other Posters.
Yes, even in our own Country, we are well known as animal lovers, and yet, blood sports are active....Foxhunting, Stag Hunting, Hare Coursing...and even the illegal ones, behind closed doors, Dog Fighting, Badger Bating, all of which the end results in an animal tortured, and very often ripped apart.
None of these so called "Traditions", IMPO have a place in the modern 21st Century.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Topic Locked 
, so I am not quite sure what point you are making there.