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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Apr 2009 : 10:49:54 AM
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Yes there is a standard in this country, we had our chap collected and the motility rate was above average, every single batch was tested before putting into staws. Each straw was numbered to that batch.
But.......at the end of the day it is all down to a mare getting in-foal. The frozen semen is only as good as the number of mares that get in foal to it.!! After doing everything right via the collection end, you still have to get mares in-foal.
I won't ever dismiss using frozen semen again, but i have had my fingers well and truly burnt from using semen from other stallions.
Using a leased stallion also lost me money, the stallion was sold to another country and they never honored the free return or offered any money back.
Breeding is a mugs game for sure, lets hope that everyone will appreciate the cost of trying to produce a lovely foal from whatever method used.
Back to basics for us for a while now.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2009 : 11:28:20 AM
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Yes, we too tried the frozen semen route for an outcross on one of our Anglo Mares. We chose a 16.1hh Anglo AHS Premium International
3-day FEI Eventer, whos sire was a SportsHorse(GB)Black 17.1hh Thoroughbred.
The semen had been frozen for five years, having been collected before the stallion left this Country. We paid for one course of three straws....waited until our mare was `showing` well to our own stallion, she was inseminated with a single straw....and bingo...seventeen days later...pregnant
We were delighted and could not wait for our foal....had visioned at least, a Large Show Hack/Eventer  (the idea of using a stallion with `big` bloodlines, to give us a substantial sized Anglo)
What a surprise we had, a small wishy-washy chestnut filly who only made 14.3hh at maturity. She was sold as a yearling and has a fabulous home, so we are really happy for her, being performance bred for several generations, she will prove her worth with a junior rider.
Obviously, we are very grateful that our `try` with frozen semen was totally successful (one straw only used) and that the costs were not insurmountable....but def will only use our own `Boys` in future, as we know what we are likely to get!!
P.S. The Filly was parentage tested DNA and registered Anglo Arab so we are sure there was not a mix up with the semen!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 17 Apr 2009 11:31:55 AM |
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linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2009 : 12:13:49 PM
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Alison,
You are quite right! and ethically you should receive semen of good quality, this is an expensive enough game without the poor quality semen to lessen your chances of breeding a foal,
But sadly there are far too many loopholes in AI contracts,
I would not use a leased stallion unless he was to stand at a stud for more than one breeding season,
Often the terms state you cannot transfer the breeding to another mare, but the stallion owner can substitute another stallion, it is all quite unfair,
I want to use a stallion but I am unhappy with the terms of their contact, so sadly I wont use him!
Lx
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Kali
Bronze Member
England
73 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2009 : 12:57:26 PM
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Hi Linda,
It's a very hard lesson!
I think what rankles with me is that in the contract is a clause stating that the owner guarantees the availability of this stallion's semen at another stud but a natural breeding can be changed to fresh or frozen semen.
Of course then the stallion was sold and the new owner knew there were obligations to be met, it was apparently in the sale agreement.
However both previous and new owner expect me to pay extra because the new owner has had to get frozen semen produced!
I did ask them to let me know when a mare became pregnant with this semen. Have I heard anything? NO |
Alison |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2009 : 1:04:14 PM
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Pat
Talk to Tullis at Twemlows or have a look at their website. He'll explain it all to you and even give you a guided tour of the place (they are near Whitchurch). They are lovely people and very, very helpful.
Rachelle |
   www.eviepeel.com    |
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Reagarth
Bronze Member
England
92 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 2:09:19 PM
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Hi all
I just wanted to say that not all stallion owners are the same.
Tragically I lost both a mare and foal during foaling two years ago this August. The foal was via frozen semen and I had also got a contract signed and paid for to use chilled semen with my mare.
The two stud owners bent over backwards to look after me and reimburse me with the stud fees. They were sympathetic and helped me to get something back from a terrible situation. I can't thank them enough for their kindness during that terrible time and it just shows that there are good people out there with big hearts. Not all of them are after making money
The two studs concerned were Helle and Arne at Svanemosen and Willi and Ursula Poth at Classic Egyptians - so many thanks to both 
Judith |
Reagarth Arabians |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 5:04:46 PM
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Judith
I assume this was VK Crissa; she was such a beautiful mare. A double tragedy for you to lose the mare and her foal. I am pleased to hear that you had a good experience with the stud owners; there are still some nice people left in the world.
Barbara
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 6:04:08 PM
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Apologies, Judith, your mare was Naheed; Yvonne lost Crissa and I mixed the mares up. I have never lost a mare and foal; it must be really terrible.
Barbara |
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Reagarth
Bronze Member
England
92 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 10:27:56 PM
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Thanks for your kind thoughts Barbara. Sadly both VK Crisaa and Naheed were my mares. I lost my beloved Crisaa through a paralysis of the pelvis not long before losing Naheed. Not an experience I would wish on anyone and one that is taking a long time to get over - don't know that I can ever watch another foaling :-( Time is a great healer they say.
Judith |
Reagarth Arabians |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 10:29:53 PM
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| Hi. Ai seems such a mine field, however imo you shouldnt need to check a stallions fertility, the fact that they are offering his services as a sire should mean that he is capable of producing, and all owners should be responsible enough to ensure this is the case, and if not they shouldnt sell him as a sire. I know Kali, (Alison ) and i know how much of a bum deal she got, she actually set her mare up 4 times, the first and second lot of semen was about 10% or below, (might as well have been a straw of water ) the next lot didnt get sent in time, and the final lot (which she paid a huge transport bill for ) was collected in the morning in belgium, and delivered and used within 12hrs, still bellow 20%. The fact is the semen doesnt travel and never will (they no longer offer this as an option for mares out of the country ) he has a very very slim chance of producing a foal this way, and Alison even has a vets report to state the semen wasnt of sufficient quality, so imo they are in breech of contract, and as the stallion had so little chance of producing a foal from chilled, frankly they should be liable for the thousands of pounds it cost in transport and vet fees, yes they offered another stallion, but lets face it, that wouldnt have been what she originally paid for, it was a different type, not grey which she specifically wanted and not a world champion, so why should second best be an option? why didnt they just apologise and give her the stud fee back? That to me would have been the moral thing to do. The frozen semen isnt an option for her due to age, and besides they wanted payment for the collection, to me its just criminal. Anyway i will climb down from my soap box now, but i an just so angry for her:) in answer to the thread, if the mare was in foal then the stallion has done its job, so depending on the terms i guess a stud fee could be due again, it could after all it could be a problem with the mare? Ps i wish i could name and shame the stallion, but Alison might kill Me:) |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2009 : 11:08:17 PM
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Hi Judith
How very sad for you, and they say lightning never strikes twice. You must be heartbroken. If I can ever do anything to help you let me know. I am always willing to help a friend and I have SEs.
Hi Sarah
While I realise that when a mare gets in foal the stallion "has done his job" things can and do go wrong along the way to having a foal. Having lost many thousands of pounds over the years with no foals to show for it I would now not use a stallion where I had to pay for a covering whether or not the mare got in foal, or, if she did and reabsorbed. I did make the exception for Ansata Qasim and sent three mares. One reabsorbed so an expensive disppointment. However, I knew the score before I sent the mares and thought all would be OK; that'll teach me!
Personally, if I stood my stallions at stud I would give a return covering to that mare, or if she was no longer available, to another mare. As a stallion owner I wouldn't lose out as covering a mare costs very little except your time and the pleasure of knowing that there is one happy owner at the end of the day is reward in itself.
Just my thoughts.
Barbara |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2009 : 9:50:48 PM
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| Hi Barbara, your opinion sounds good to Me:) and personally i have only a good experience with covering/ai, but i class myself as exceptionally lucky, one foal, one try, one good stallion owner:) but as you say if you know the terms before hand and can weigh up the risks and costs yourself then alls well in the world and everyone is happy. |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2009 : 09:52:38 AM
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Alison
Not sure if any of mine are a option by you are welcome to consider it
It seems shame that there is not a standard breeding contract which could be varied as necessary but which should contain all necessary conditions and penatlites etc.
Yvonne
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