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dinkidoo
Gold Member
 United Kingdom
652 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 3:14:51 PM
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Hi
Hoping someone can offer some advice to help my dog.
Millie started to get a very rounded stomach about 2 months ago, took her to the vets who did full blood tests and they all showed up clear. Vets a bit puzzled as not something they had seen as her stomach was like a drum, they tried to draw fluid off but none there. I said its strange it looks like she's pregnant but there is no way she is and we were all thinking about maybe a phantom pregnancy. Anyway went away and couple of days later she came in season and her stomach went alot softer and felt ok. She's been fine in herself so discussed with the vet having her speyed to eliminate any pyrometria in the future but had to wait for her season to end.
She went very quiet last wednesday and i knew something was wrong. Rung the vets at 10.30pm and met the head vet down there he put her on a drip and scanned her in the morning to find she has a Splenic Mass. He said they can operate but its a huge op and she's 10 and they aren't sure if there could be microscopic cancers in there that would then spread. The op will cost £1300 which we just don't have, we said we would go for it and find the money from somewhere but i then did a lot of reading about it and thought the benefits did not out weigh the risks. After a lot of thinking we thought the kindest thing to do would be to pts. I was devastated and asked them to wait until i got there. She had a drip in so there would be no further stress for her and she could go to sleep in my arms.
When i got there i was so so upset, id got her some maltesers as i thought well they can't harm her now My hands were shaking and i dropped them all over the floor, she jumped up like a puppy and started catching them. I said to the vet she looks so ok (it was a different vet to the one i had seen the prev night) and he said yes she is in good spirits. I asked was she in much pain and he said no not at all the bleed has stemmed itself and the body is reabsorbing the red blood cells. He then said that if i decided not to have her pts she could be ok for quite a while but the bleeds would make her tired and anaemic (if she has another bleed) and depending on the size and frequency of them she could then start to lose her quality of life. I was so upset and confused, she got off my knee and sat next to the vet and stared at me, really looked into my eyes. I asked what would happen if she had a massive internal bleed, he said the outcome would pobably be that she would go to sleep/faint and not wake up as her blood pressure would drop too low. He also said that she could have lots of little bleeds and we could then decide that she was not happy and have her pts. He said he was the one that scanned her and it hadn't spread to her other organs and looks as if it had grown to capacity and her body had adapted to it as far as he could see.
I decided to take her home and make whatever time she has left the best it could be. I know she is not ready to go yet and now the bleed has stopped she is fine and v lively and happy.
We got home from the vets and i was exhausted and so emotional and she trotted into the living room and nicked one of my little girls chicken nuggets off her dinner plate so she was back to her old self!
She has been home since friday and really if i didn't know how sick she was i would not have known.
So the advice bit (if you've got this far!) Im feeding her liver, rice, scrambled eggs - obviously not all at once - mixing it into her normal meal and am feeding her little and often so she doesn't bolt her food and become uncomfortable.
Is there anyone that knows anything about this that can think of other things? I was wondering about a holistic therapist and if they could prescribe some vitamins or tablets to help with her anaemia, has anyone used someone and can recommend them?
Im not under any illusions i know she is on limited time, i won't let her suffer but for the moment she is enjoying life far too much still and i just want to make her as comfortable as possible.
Thanks
Carol + Millie
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 3:43:23 PM
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| No advice, sorry, except for listen to your dog and then your vet, sending you lots of love. XXXXXXXX |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 4:18:34 PM
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So sorry to hear that your dog is very poorly. I have no advice to give but hope you don't mind me saying that it is always difficult to know what to do for the best.
When I had to make the dreadful decision to have my old mare put to sleep I was always worried that I wouldn't know when the time was right. I wanted to make sure that I didn't let her suffer in any way. I didn't want to be a day too late......
I found a link that might be of some help?
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_splenic_masses.html
The very last paragraph is particularly interesting.
Take care.
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 4:32:19 PM
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Thanks Lisa, I was reading all about it on Friday but i was too upset to take most of it in. Its so so hard because if they operate they could lose her on the table if she bleeds too much, she could get an infection, it could prove malignant and they would decide to pts there and then. There are so many negatives not to mention the costs, we can't get credit otherwise i would be ordering a card to pay for the op if we felt it was best for her. At 10 how much more of a quality of life would she be getting and would be an op be the start of problems and she would eventually die in pain? Im in turmoil trying to work out whats best for her, in my heart i feel that she should spend her time at home now relatively unaware of the problem being spoiled and hopefully when the time comes die peacefully. I could put her through the pain of the op and recovery for her to die a few months later if it was malignant. She's sat next to me now very content, there is someone with her 24/7 and she's even sleeping in our room at night - she is loving that one! - so shes getting the best care. I just wish something could be done that wasn't risking her life either way. |
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geegee
Platinum Member
England
3682 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 4:41:43 PM
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I know how you feel
It is terrible for us, as humans, as we are the ones that know what could happen. The good thing is, that whilst she is being spoilt rotten and enjoying being in the same bedroom at night, she is none the wiser. Please take comfort from that.....
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 6:34:56 PM
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If there's no malignacy/spread to other organs & you have the splenectomy she could live to her full lifespan.
It's a hard choice, but the time to do it IS when she's bright & lively for the best chance of recovery. If she becomes more anaemic, her chances decrease.
You may be able to find a vet who will operate for a lot less money, especially if you can take her home again straight away & do the aftercare yourself. The surgery itself isn't usually much more complicated than a spay, but blood transfusions & prolonged hospitalisation will push the fees up.
Maybe speak to a few practices? |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 6:57:39 PM
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Ella gives good advice. I have known dogs to have splenectomies and live long lives afterwards---10 isn't very old, so if there isn't malignancy this could be her. If you don't go for the op her days are definitely numbered because it won't be long before there are either a lot of minor bleeds which will make her anaemic and debilitated or a major one which will kill her---and that might not be peaceful. Sometimes the spleen flips over and they suffer a bit like a torsion in a horse. If she were mine I would go for the op, and if they find malignancy and pts on the operating table, the knowledge is there that she wouldn't have had long anyway, and that isn't a bad way to go.If they don't find malignancy, you have your dog back with the rest of her life ahead of her.
I do appreciate there is a cost element here, but perhaps you could shop around as Ella suggests, or ask your own vet for payment terms.
Whatever you decide to do now you definitely did the right thing listening to your dog and not having her pts at the vets the other day.
Give her a hug from me. |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 7:17:41 PM
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I'm a vet nurse at an emergency out of hours clinic, though previously worked in general practice. In my 13 years of nursing i seen a fair few splenic bleeds/ruptures. The symptoms are usually as you've described. Small bleeds, where the dog becomes a little depressed for a few days, then bounces back, only to have another episode a few days/weeks later. Of the ones we have operated on early, they have an excellent prognosis, as long as the cancer hasn't spread. Those that are malignant, or benign seem to be split 50/50. Those that were bought in as emergencies after the spleen has ruptures faired less well with possibly only a 25% survival rate (taking into account that some of those were pts on the table sue to tumour spread).
If she were mine, i would have a chest xray done to rule out mets in the lungs. If she was clear, i'd be tempted to have surgery.
Best of luck with whatever you decide. What's right for one, is not right for everyone. Let your dog and your vet guide you and use your instincts. I'm sure you'll make the right choice for her.
Ros xxx |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 7:51:45 PM
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dinkidoo - my advice would be to bring her home and make the most of her time left. Ten isn't young and you could go through all sorts of investigations/ operations - for what? to extend her life by a little bit? You can't explain to her why she's going through it all, she's happy right now, let her have the maltesers and when she no longer finds any joy in life have her quietly PTS.
This is JMO - but I have had quite a few dogs (and horses for that matter) and I know many dog-owners, and I am not exaggerating if I said EVERY ONE of them would not have continued with treatment had they known the outcome.
You really have my sympathy, we lost our littler terrier recently, she 'balloned' but there was no-way I'd have her chopped about at her age.
On the other hand I have a Beagle, aged 2 - who has just broken her leg (costing a fortune) but because she is young, and healthy, of course we are getting it treated and hopefully cured. |
   
Louise, Warwickshire |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 8:28:56 PM
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Oh god im in more of a turmoil now! I think that i will ring around the vets in the morning and see if any will do a payment plan. I asked our vets if they would and they said they would need half up front and then could spread it over 2 months for the rest. We just do not have the money and are struggling with everything anyway at the moment due to my husband being layed off in the new year, he's working now but we are playing a hard game of catch up. I don't want to look back and regret not trying though its eating me up just imagining i could help her. Although when i spoke to the vet who said i could take her home he did say that if she was his dog he would make the same decision as the mass is v large and comlicated. He xrayed her chest too and that was clear but he thought that it may be too much to put her through the surgery. I think a chat with him will help as he was really nice, if i explain my worries hopefully he will put my mind at rest or even find a solution for the money with a better payment plan.  |
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Diane Latham
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
151 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 8:55:29 PM
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Poor you! Not an easy decision. Personally I would let her live out her life happily without the stress of complicated surgery. We had a Lab who was 11 and she broke a leg. We had some investigative work carried out as the break just occured without any impact. The xrays showed an irregular mass possibly a bone tumour, but the biopsy was inconclusive. The choice was that further investigative work was carried out which would be extremely invasive and would make her very uncomfotable. The recovery time would be about 3 months and any treatment would not necessarily extend her life or we could let nature take its course. We decided to take her home and let her live out her life naturally for however long she had left and for however long she was happy and had quality of life. We had a wonderful 6 months without drugs or any treatment or pain just simple love and tlc and she died peacefully. We have never regretted our decision. Go with your instinct. You will do what is right for you both.
Di
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 9:08:19 PM
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Dinkidoo - I think he sounds like a decent vet -he says the mass is very large and complicated - he also said he would not advise putting her through the surgery.
You may well get vets to say otherwise, and although they may mean well from a 'lets-give-it-a-go' point of view - is it really in the interests of your dog?
I speak from experience when I say that from what I've witnessed, keep well away from major intervention, let nature take it's course, help out with pain and care, and you've done the very best for your friend. x |
Louise, Warwickshire |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 9:10:34 PM
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| I echo Diane's post (above) |
Louise, Warwickshire |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 9:12:58 PM
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| I agree so much with Montikka and Diane, quality of life is so important. X |
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dinkidoo
Gold Member
United Kingdom
652 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 9:42:32 PM
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| Thanks guys it means alot you've all given really great advice. She's happy right now and thats what matters, if id have gone with what the first vet had said she would be gone now and not enjoying the spring walks she has had over the last few days. Will keep doing everything we can to keep her comfortable. I love her so so much its so scary thinking that she will be gone. I feel awful for everytime ive shouted at her although she has been a little sod at times. She's still being cheeky though, she stole an apple today after she had watched my husband leave it on the bookcase. I was in the kitchen and watched her trot into the front room climb up on the couch and lean over, carefully grab it and take it back to her basket. I laughed and went over and asked her did she want me to cut it up for her, she went grrrrrrrr so i plumped her pillows, patted her and went back into the kitchen. She came and looked at me all puzzled and a little worried - I think she thinks its me thats ill!! |
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Montikka
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2653 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 10:09:21 AM
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That's what it's all about dinkidoo a happy dog completely unaware that she's ill
My parents had an old dog that they refused (through love) to give up on; the poor animal died after barking all night in the hospital and collapsing her larynx, and an emergency trachyoctomy (sp) didn't save her. My parents are wracked with guilt; she should have been PTS at home long before it got to that stage
Be confident that you are doing the right thing She sounds very naughty |
Louise, Warwickshire |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 11:54:45 AM
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Hi Carol, if she is still acting like shes fit and enjoying life then i say let her be, after talking to your mum i know she is getting the best care from you.
Paula.x |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 7:02:55 PM
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Best of luck with whatever you decide.As i said, what's right for one is not right for another. Let your instincts and your dog guide you, as i think you are.
Ros xxx |
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