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Roseanne
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United Kingdom

6708 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2009 :  9:58:33 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Roseanne to your friends list Send Roseanne a Private Message
Idling away for far too long, as I occasionally do, I Googled to see if I could find the owner of the Arab due to be sold at Llanbyddr Sale today that Delyth put on that thread. What I found was a buried gem, showing that 120+ years ago, people bred Arabs and loved them for their beauty, intelligence performance ability - and incredible attachment to the owners and trainers they love. The writings below are Rev Francis Furse Vidal's obituary and some notes by others who knew of his love for the Arab.


"Outside the sphere of his labours as Rector he was specially known and respected for the ardent support he gave to one special class of horse. He had the greatest admiration for the wonderful Arab steed - the descendants of those remarkable animals which played so large a part in the invasion of Europe. He founded at his Suffolk home a stud which secured for him a wide reputation as a fine judge of the best examples of the breed. He was a fine horseman himself, and members of his family imbibed the same admiration for these graceful and spirited animals. The rev. gentleman was, indeed, often to be met in the countryside riding his favourite Arab, in company with members of his family similarly mounted. At one of the agricultural exhibitions, at Stowmarket, the rev. gentleman created something like a sensation by appearing in the ring with some of his favourite Arabs, pluckily ridden by himself and members of his household over hurdles, and the dash and grace with which they went through an exciting performance came as a pleasant surprise, as affording evidence of the capabilities of these beautiful creatures in clearing a fence."

“W. F. S.” encloses the following interesting cutting from the “East Anglian Daily Times” of October 1st, written by “ John O’Bosmere":— “Here are two instances of memory or retentiveness on the part of animals. The Rev. Francis Furse Vidal of Creeting St. Mary Rectory Suffolk, in the days of my youth was often to be seen in the local lanes mounted on a thoroughbred Arab, or on his own meadows breaking in one of these splendid horses. Among his many Arab horses was one named Esau, which, after a long sojourn at Creeting, was sold. Some years later Mr. Vidal went up to London on some ecclesiastical business, and, of course, gravitated to Tattersall’s. Glancing down the catalogues he noted an item of interest. ‘An old white Arab, no history.’ On inquiry he was assured that this was an ill-tempered brute no good to anybody. ‘But I’d like to have a look at him,’ persisted Mr. Vidal. He was shown a ferocious beast, which immediately rushed wildly at the groom who approached his box. ‘ Esau! Esau! Come here, pretty dear,’ called the visitor. The old horse came straight to him, and nuzzled his hand. For it was, indeed, Esau, a thin and straddle-legged Esau. Mr. Vidal bought him forthwith, and marched the fierce animal, now docile as a lamb, through the traffic to Liverpool Street Station. As soon as men tried to induce him to enter the chartered horse-box, he became unmanageable. Mr. Vidal had to lead him into the box and travel the seventy-seven miles to Needham Market in his company. Esau obviously rejoiced as he traversed the remembered lanes to the Rectory, where he greeted Mrs. Vidal and the children with loud grunts of happiness. He had come ‘home.’”

And finally:
"My correspondent comments upon the article quoted above:— "I remember the Rev. Francis Vidal, of Creeting. He held that living from 1881 to 1901, and kept a stud of Arabs there. He used to ride a bay Arab stallion not very big, about 15 hands 1in, which carried him to hounds for some seasons. This was a beautiful animal, and very clever. At his sale on his death in 1901 we purchased a grey Arab mare by Kantaka out of Shibboleth. Kantaka was a bay Arab horse by Kismet, the winner of many races and sold to America for £1400, but this mare used to stumble rather badly in the trot, although a very good ride at a gallop. I do hope in spite of all the difficulties we shall be able keep hounds going if it is only a few couples so that our lads may have a little fun when on leave. I know very many look forward to a few days round Christmas, and it seems too bad to have to tell them that we are all closed down."

Does anyone know of these bloodlines? Wouldn't it be facsinating to know more about them? Where would he have got his Arabs from?

Roseanne
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trinity
Gold Member

Scotland
1126 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  06:22:43 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add trinity to your friends list Send trinity a Private Message
Roseanne that's fascinating. I have to say the paragraph about Esau brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for sharing it.

Beck
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misterei
Silver Member


United Kingdom
455 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  10:03:06 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add misterei to your friends list Send misterei a Private Message
Hi Roseanne


Shiboleth (born 1884) - Not quite the same spelling but on Allbreed is a Crabbety thing I have heard of.

The sire KARS is described thus

Color: b

GSB 23

Sheykh Obeyd, Or. Ar. Bred by Ibn Subayni of the Mhayd-Fidan. Imp to England by The Blunts 1878, Exp to Australia and D McKay in 1885.desertbred

Dam was Sherifa

KARS is also in the blood of Esplendor (b 1983) who was sold to Tersk by the Maxwells. I have a KARS descendent as well, and I think she will be a great riding horse.

There is an entry for Kantanka, with no parents or offspring, and using this article a check on Kismet produces a picture of an 1877 born chap, imported by Randolph Huntingdon. Nice looking

Here they are


Emira......Mazie...Fharida.....Shahi......Mazie.....Saffee..Malika...Emira
More at www.purespiritarabians.com

Edited by - misterei on 01 Feb 2009 10:32:33 AM
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lulu
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763 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  11:27:54 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lulu to your friends list Send lulu a Private Message
Really intersting. Love the piece about Easu. Wonderful.
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4964 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  11:36:53 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Goldenmane to your friends list Send Goldenmane a Private Message
Thanks, that was lovely to read, especially about Easu.

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garnet
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2382 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  1:42:50 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add garnet to your friends list Send garnet a Private Message
I wonder whether the Kantaka mentioned is an ancestor of the grey stallion of the same name owned by Finn Guinness and until his untimely death last May on loan to my friend Karen. He and his wife Sabal bred her four lovely foals and it was a delightful and unusual sight to see them all living together as a family group.

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Roseanne
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United Kingdom
6708 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  2:36:55 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roseanne to your friends list Send Roseanne a Private Message
Gosh I wonder if the Rev Vidal knew the Blunts as I think this vicar had his Arabs in these last 20 years of the 1800s? Maybe they were ones that the Blunts didn't find 'perfect' enough and didn't breed with/sold gelded?

I tried to look on Allbreeds but naturally didn't get anything, but obviously the bloodlines experts of AL have other places to research!

Any pictures of these horses people? It would be lovely to build up the picture in my mind.

I found the story of Esau very sad. It reminded me of Ginger in Black Beauty which always has made me cry...

Roseanne

Edited by - Roseanne on 30 Jan 2009 2:37:26 PM
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garnet
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Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  5:21:07 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add garnet to your friends list Send garnet a Private Message
The story of Esau reminded me of Black Beauty and Ginger too but at least he ended his days happily, unlike poor Ginger. I read this book as a young child - I could not bear to do so now.

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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member

Denmark
744 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  5:42:02 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gu-ku-vi to your friends list Send gu-ku-vi a Private Message
Very interesting, I found this where he is mentioned as the owner of Naomi.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/4180/GomussaPage.html

Gunni.
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Delyth
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United Kingdom
1425 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  6:22:37 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Delyth to your friends list Send Delyth a Private Message
Fancy finding all this from a google search for a mare/owner we were all concerned about. Perhaps like Esau !! A real heartlifting read after some of the horrible things we hear about on the forum. Thank you for sharing it
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misterei
Silver Member


United Kingdom
455 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2009 :  8:38:31 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add misterei to your friends list Send misterei a Private Message
Hi Roseanne

You are correct, the Rev Vidal did know the Blunts, the link below is very interesting also and explains his part with Huntingdon.

There is so much to learn about the horse

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3095/Huntington.html

thanks for starting this interest

Here they are


Emira......Mazie...Fharida.....Shahi......Mazie.....Saffee..Malika...Emira
More at www.purespiritarabians.com
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Roseanne
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United Kingdom
6708 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2009 :  10:07:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roseanne to your friends list Send Roseanne a Private Message
With your links (thank you very much for them) it really is fascinating to read how influential and important this vicar's stud was! I wish there were photos of the horses; it seems to suggest there were but I can't find them...

How extraordinary that these people were so captivated and dedicated to importation and breeding of the Arab.

Roseanne
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misterei
Silver Member


United Kingdom
455 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2009 :  7:29:57 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add misterei to your friends list Send misterei a Private Message
Roseanne

Thanks for inspiring my passion for arab breeding, after all, most of us probably own a horse which can be traced back to one of these, or their descendents. I traced one of our mares full history in December, using information in Allbreedpedigree. I found a few glaring errors (a horse of 19th century sired by a 1950's stallion - I will put up a separate thread if I cannot trace the breeding elsewhere, to see if anybody knows the sire), but mostly I learnt of over 900 horses and how their names are either lost or reoccur time and again. Many have that cunning text that describes their origin, where they were bred and how they were sold to various countries or studs. It is fascinating, but you do need the time to do the reading.

The last paragraph you posted talks of a mare by Kantanka, by Kismet. The Allbreed progeny report only has one mare, but not by Shibboleth, who is called Shemseh, born in 1897. The dam, Kushdil, was bred by, guess who, F Furse Vidal, and was 50% Crabbet. Kushdil was out of Naomi, who features in lots of web sites, bred by AG Sandeman, and could clear 7 foot fences carrying 190 lbs, who says Arabs can't do show jumping??? (I do, but only to the OH)


Here they are


Emira......Mazie...Fharida.....Shahi......Mazie.....Saffee..Malika...Emira
More at www.purespiritarabians.com

Edited by - misterei on 01 Feb 2009 7:32:08 PM
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Roseanne
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United Kingdom
6708 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2009 :  9:15:28 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roseanne to your friends list Send Roseanne a Private Message
The story of Naomi and the awful fate of Kismet (prophetic!!) is told on the post about Huntingdon on the previous page of this thread.

It's easy to think the Blunts did all the importing of Crabbets but it seems others were very knowledgable too. I find it fascinating that so many people - men in the professions - were so entranced by the Arabian horse! I am going to cut and paste your last paragraph (about the jumping!) for the Crabbets thread Misterei!!

I'd love to know more about F Furse Vidal...

Roseanne
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trinity
Gold Member

Scotland
1126 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2009 :  9:50:27 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add trinity to your friends list Send trinity a Private Message
So would I Roseanne. This thread is fascinating. I'm really enjoying it. Thanks.

Beck
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misterei
Silver Member


United Kingdom
455 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  12:28:11 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add misterei to your friends list Send misterei a Private Message
just some stuff I have been looking up, (thanks to ggle)

Francis Furse "Furse" Vidal b: Jun 19, 1836 in Great Torrington, Devon d: Apr 27, 1908 in Creeting Rectory, Needham Market, Suffolk
(source: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/h/i/Jeremy-T-White/ODT15-0001.html)

The family made their money in Jamaica, having plantations, his father had an estate with 19 slaves...

The fathers will left our vicar approx £10,000, enough to buy an arab or two, even today.

To avoid copyright and stuff, this next link has a picture of our vicar, (we have now taken ownership of the man), and is probably the place where Roseanne found her initial interest?

http://www.green.gen.name/vidal/D5.htm#i670

This next link is full of pictures including naomi, well worth looking at

http://cmkarabians.com/articles/ABJHuntington.html

Naomi No. 230, red chestnut Arabian mare, 15-2 hands, foaled in 1877, bred by Rev. F. Vidal

Nimr was also bred by Rev Vidal in 1891

Naomi, bred to her grandson Nimr, produced Khaled.

There are two pictures of Khaled on the link above, he is exceptional, not dainty, but a solid well proportioned horse

Naomi was bred to Maidan (imported by Eustace Vasey) by the Rev. Vidal, and produced a filly, Nazli, foaled May 17, 1888.

Garaveen was bred by Rev Vidal in 1892 (Kismet x Kushdil

An article about the founding of Polo in the USA refers to Furse Vidal as having bred ponies for 30 years.

That's all I can find, except for some stuff in the Australian national Library, but it is reference material and not available for loan, so if you are going out there...




Here they are


Emira......Mazie...Fharida.....Shahi......Mazie.....Saffee..Malika...Emira
More at www.purespiritarabians.com
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Roseanne
Moderator

United Kingdom
6708 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2009 :  10:11:36 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roseanne to your friends list Send Roseanne a Private Message
In one of the links on the previous page of this thread, there is some wonderful history about Randolph Huntingdon's importation of nearly all Naomi's offspring you've mentioned here (I think this is right) shortly before Rev F F Vidal's retirement. The Vicar himself took the horses over to the US personally because he had finally agreed to sell Huntingdon the stallion Kismet (a former brilliant racehorse) and the horse had died four hours after landing in New York....

When I'm not meant to be working, I will try to cut and paste that part. It's heartbreaking.

I will also read your links when back home Misterei. Thanks so much for the research. I'm fascinated!

Roseanne
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