| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
|
KittyB
Silver Member
United Kingdom
295 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 1:55:41 PM
|
Has anyone experience in using frozen semen (as opposed to fresh/chilled) to AI a maiden mare and what success rates have you achieved?
Can you offer any advice/pointers?
|
     |
|
Report to moderator
|
|
|
jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 5:36:33 PM
|
Hi,
I tried 3 times using frozen semen on my maiden mare and failed every attempt It was an expensive procedure, and from memory, I think the vet bill alone was around £750.
However, she conceived no problem when covered naturally, and gave birth to a fabulous colt |
    
Borders, Scotland |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
Otto
Bronze Member
England
119 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 6:22:19 PM
|
I used to work for an AI company many years ago - the success rate with frozen semen was rather dire (about 0-30%). However, there did seem to be the odd stallion here and there that maintained an excellent fertility rate with frozen semen e.g. 70-80%.
I think a lot also depends on the vet you use - we used to find out that the vets owners used often weren't following the correct guidelines issued by the company for defrosting the semen. We also used to notice that older mares didn't concieve so well (even though they went on to conceive with fresh/natural service).
I think I would only consider using frozen semen if a) the stallion was dead and b) it was such an amazing stallion and there was no alternative. Nevertheless, I think freezing semen is a valuable way of keeping your stallion's legacy after he has died, and it can be invaluable in the preservation of rare breeds.
Good luck!!
|
      |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
emma
Gold Member
816 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 1:03:31 PM
|
| Success rates have hugely improved now. I know my local vets had a really good rate and each year gets higher. It does of course depend on the quality of the semen and the ability of the vet. Your best to check the success rates of the particular stallion and also the rates of the vets. |
Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 3:24:51 PM
|
Hi.......can speak from experience...wanted to use an Anglo performance stallion as my own homebred Anglo stallions were too closely related to my mare, and I did not want to send Sunray Sensation away from home. Finally settled for frozen semen from Tunes of Glory AASB (International three day eventer) who had left the Country five years previously meaning that his semen had been frozen for that length of time.
My vet is also an expert in AI etc., and wanted the mare for a week or so. We did not agree and said we would take her to be inseminated when she was `standing well` to our own stallions. We took her on a Friday evening, she was inseminated, and we collected her the next morning. One insemination, one straw and hey ho, she was confirmed pregnant 18 days later 
She duly foaled on time and produced a small pale chestnut filly. Were we disappointed Tunes Of Glory is 16.1hh and his sire is jet black Poetic Justice (A Thoroughbred H.I.S Premium stallion, standing 17.00hh)
We sold the filly to a very close friend and then re-sold her on their behalf when she was a four year old and had not grown big enough
(14.3hh)for their rider. She is in a fabulous home and was bought on sight as she was so like the Pure Arab Mare they had just lost to a tragic accident... Proof indeed that you can never guarantee what the outcome of a carefully formatted mating will be She is a really lovely filly but just not what we had planned and hoped for (A large Show Hack/Riding Horse with the performance ability to go eventing)
Sunray Scintillation as a four month old foal in 2003
 Sunray Scintillation as a just backed 4yr old in 2007
Were we lucky to have been 100% successful to get immediate pregnancy from one straw of 5 year old frozen semen......or is it really down to the expertise of the A.I. inseminator. Have known many who have gone to GREAT expense before getting their mare in foal with AI, particularly with frozen semen
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
        |
Edited by - BabsR on 14 Jan 2009 11:02:39 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 6:53:33 PM
|
| I used a vet who specialises in AI procedure, from the Royal Dick Veterinary Hospital, Edinburgh, and still had no joy! |
Borders, Scotland |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
KittyB
Silver Member
United Kingdom
295 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 9:50:06 PM
|
Thanks for all your comments and stories! The reason I'm considering AI (as opposed to natural) is that I tried my mare naturally 2 years ago and she just wouldn't stand for the stallion. The stallion owner thought she was frightened. A friend of mine who knows my mare has suggested that she might have a lot of male hormones (she's Alpha horse in my small herd) and sees a stallion as an enemy rather than a lover . I really would like to breed my own foal (to keep) and have been looking round for high Crabbet's/Old English to AI her with (don't seem to be many). My vets offer a reasonable package and (they say) highly qualified and experienced AI administrators. How do you go about checking the quality of the sperm before buying it?
|
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 09:22:26 AM
|
| KittyB,, I have a mare who is like your mare sounds. She refused to have anything to do with two stallions, preferring to try to beat them up instead I have thought about using AI with her in a year or two (a foal to keep) but I have another being AId this year so I'm going to see how that goes first! We're using chilled semen for mine, and I'm hoping she will only have to stay at the AI centre (we've got two near us) for a few days then go back for her scan. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 09:54:09 AM
|
Fertiity rates via AI of any sort are greatly affected by how 'well' the semen is handled, transported, stored frozen and defrosted. Some technichians are naturally better/ take more care etc. Rarely is it the stallions fault, especially if the stallion has good fertility other wise.
Dot |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
joycemelvin
Platinum Member
Scotland
1574 Posts |
|
|
gentle001
Silver Member
Wales
290 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2009 : 6:37:58 PM
|
| i have used it once with a maiden mare aged 13 conceived first time! His semen did freeze well and the vet did say it was very high quality. I used west point stud and would recommend them to anyone they where wonderful. Wouldnt hesitate to use them again. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2009 : 09:34:02 AM
|
Westpoint are nearer me than Twemlows so it's nice to have a recommendation for them  I think I need to visit there before spring to see if I can just have my mare there for a few days. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
dilly
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2009 : 12:32:39 PM
|
I used Frozen last year on my maiden mare and she was in foal first go! Our vets were FAB, she is due 1st April this year we can not wait!
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
gentle001
Silver Member
Wales
290 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2009 : 12:49:50 PM
|
edward and his partner are brilliant! I was so happy with how she came back, she was superbly looked after and no hesitations to use them or recommend them. My mare is a very difficult to deal with due to a bad start in life but they were brill
If u are going to use them i reccomend you speak to edward as they get fairly busy up there to ensure they save you a spot. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Valentine Arabians
Gold Member
United Kingdom
586 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 5:31:30 PM
|
We have used Twemlows three times now and with frozen AI, the mares have taken 2nd time, each of them on each occasion. I can also highly recommend Edward and his brother, Tullis, in the stallion section. Both brothers are very easy to deal with and they take their time to explain things and will talk to you (not at you), at any time of day or night.
Liz |
Liz & Walter Downes
www.ValentineArabians.com
Lincolnshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 4:24:50 PM
|
Yes, I too have used Twemlows with great results - they are particularly good/understanding with Arab mares. Edward has visited the National Show at Malvern several times to see his Twemlow 'Arab' babies.
The only thing I would add is that over the years when mares have definately not wanted to stand for a stallion - then it has later transpired that there were problems with the mare either hormonal or otherwise and no amount of trying got them in foal.
I think 'Nature' often has a way of sorting theses things out. I had a purebred mare who was a good easy breeder and had had several foals, catching on the first service. When I sent her back to stud (where she had been covered the 2 previous years) to a try a new popular TB sire - she would not on any account stand for him. She was eventually AI'd and that didn't hold - several months down the line and still at stud when she returned in season yet again - I said to the stud 'OK just try the stallion we used last year'.
She stood immediately, she held straight away and had a straight forward pregnacy. I believe IMO that there was something wrong with my proposed Anglo mating! |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 09:45:48 AM
|
Hi,
Not sure if this helps you or not, so apologies if i am already telling you something your know all about.
The advice from both my vet and a very well known AI Vet in this area was that Frozen was not the way to go for my Maiden mare, however this was probably down to her age as well as been a maiden.
They explained that the window for inseminating with frozen is so small that the timing has to be absolutely spot on, no room for even a couple of hours mis-calculation, which basically means if your mare ovulates earlier than expected ie during the night, by 9am the next morning it might be to late for them to do it and get a good result,
Natural - the semen lives for around 72 hours which means that you can be 72 hours out with your calculation on ovulation and your mare could still catch, also with natural they tend to cover two or three times over several days so that increases your chances even more.
Chilled - Not sure about the length of time on this but your vet would be able to advise, but it is 24 - 48hrs i believe???? i am sure somebody on here would have the correct figures.
Anyway my vet said that with a aged maiden my best chances (above natural) were with chilled, and they were correct she took first time.
If you are concidering AI, please speak with the vet you are going to use and get a list of questions to ask the stallion owners about fertility, (just saying they are fertile and that they have foals on the ground does not mean that they have a high percentage of success or that the semen is of adequate quality on defrosting etc) also i would cross all the t's with regards to whos responsibility everything is, so for example if they send frozen semen and you get it and its of a standard that would not get a mare pregnant (vet will confirm this level) then who pays for setting your mare up?? please just be really clear with whom ever you use what you expect and what they can guarantee in return. eg: to say you get a free return is a good deal, but only if the semen they are sending is of suitable quality to get a mare pregnant, if it isnt then no matter how many times you go back you wont have a foal.... (and in my opinion if they are selling substandard semen they should cover your costs)
Not sure what area you are in, but the vet i used is world renound for AI, he does a deal that is £275.00 per cycle for your mare, and that covers all pre-injections, oviplants, insemination, all scans before, nipping a twin if needed, and your 21 day scan to confirm pregnancy. So for eg: Amber was a maiden mare so they did a pre-check to ensure she was ok for pregnancy, and to check where she was in her cycle, they then gave her a jab to bring her into season, she then had a scan 4 days later, 3 days after than, and then 2 days after that, one the following morning, and again in the evening and they eventually inseminated her the following morning. It included the oviplant injection, washing out, and a further scan to see if they could see division. At her 21 day scan she had a twin nipped and 2 further scans to ensure she had held the other foal. Personally i think thats a bargin for £275.00. He operates out of two stud yards in this area so you would be able to send your mare and they would do all the work for you and they dont mind if you collect your mare after AI and return at 21 days. Livery fees are approx £75.00 p.w. and include everything. Amber was at stud for around 2 weeks in total.
If you want his details please PM me and i will send them to you.
Sarah
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
ashabarab
Gold Member
England
1378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 5:46:30 PM
|
sarah
your vet gave you a very good deal
mine charges around a 100 just for a scan [with call out]
ash |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
KittyB
Silver Member
United Kingdom
295 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 10:36:28 PM
|
| I might be able to negotiate chilled with the stallion owner. My vet did recommend chilled (over frozen) on my mare, due to her age (14 this time). They do a package which is £190 per cycle and includes jabs, scans, insemination etc. She would go to the AI centre which is 10 miles away. How is semen transported? Is it couriered round the country in cool boxes - like donor organs? Our dairy farmer next door tells me a tale of waiting at the train station for a "little box" to be dropped off! Do AI stallions normally offer a NFNF or NFFR? Sorry for the amount of questions, but as you can tell, it's my first time |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 8:16:10 PM
|
| SarahA has given you some sound advice. I have just returned from Twemlows having completed the AI course that has given me DEFRA approval to inseminate mares. I would certainly recommend using chilled semen as, statistically, success rates are higher, but success of any AI depends very much on teamwork between all parties to monitor the growing follicle in the mare, to synchronise the collection of the semen, to ensure it is transported quickly and correctly and that the receiving vet inseminates at the optimum time with a sufficient volume of semen that still has a reasonable percentage of progressive motility. There is little room for error as spermatozoa will die from thermal shock if it isn't handled and kept at the correct temperatures. This means before it leaves the stud, during collection, when it is being processed and packed, during transportation and after it arrives at the mare owner's inseminating vet or AI technician. Just as much rests on the condition of the mare's uterus and whether or not she retains any fluid, pre or post insemination. Chilled semen is usually shipped overnight in special polystyrene boxes with frozen ice packs or Equitainers which keep it at temperatures of 4-5 degrees centigrade. Most studs are using the Royal Mail Special Delivery Service which guarantees delivery before 1pm the following day and carries a special type of insurance that can permit claims for costs incurred as a result of damage or late delivery. Courier services are also available but cost more and many collect earlier in the day. With Royal Mail you just have to ensure it is posted by 5pm. Sorry this is so long winded but,having just completed the course, there is a lot more to AI than most new to breeding think. Even if everything goes like clockwork, there is no guarantee that the mare will conceive and carry any embryo to term. Many of course do and deliver the next generation of gorgeous foalies. Hope this helps. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
      |
Edited by - pintoarabian on 14 Feb 2009 07:11:30 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 2:40:32 PM
|
Last year I went down the AI chilled route with a Sec B (maiden) to a German Perf Pony Stallion. After 3 failed attempts took the pony to a Riding Pony for natural covering and she held 1st time! The vets (which is an AI center) said there was no visable problem with either the mare or stallion.
My problem is that the Pony Performance Stallions are all AI only. I want to use a British bred Welsh Sec D, Machno Carwyn, who is a SJ pony in Switzerland. I want to put him to my PBA mare who has had one foal by a Sec B Stallion. Machno Carwyn is by Frozen AI and you get 8 straws in one dose and the price is per dose. The AI Center which holds the straws is Westpoint Stud and I have heard very good reports about them. Also Edward Evans is a BEF Young Horse Evaluator. It does seem logical to send my part bred there to be inseminated and I suppose I will have to "pay the price".
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
Topic Locked 
