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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 3:09:54 PM
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| Gari, oh how I wish the AHS would 'cherish' those parti-coloured pure bred horses! It may, or may not, be widely known that the AHS will not permit them to be shown at the National show in the coloured classes. They can be shown in the pure bred classes but they will not permit entry into the coloured classes, even though these horses can be registered with coloured horse societies, who hold classes for coloured Arabs. The regional group shows will accept them but not the AHS. Why? They claim Arabs can't be coloured so only part bred coloureds can be shown. Aren't they supposed to promote the Arabian horse in all its forms and not refuse entry to them at its own national show? This is fact, not speculation, because Picasso competed in the pure bred classes at Malvern in 2008 but his entry for the coloured classes was refused with the statement that they were only open to part breds. We asked for this to be looked at by committee for the 2009 show but have been advised that they are not for changing. Not trying to be controversial here, just trying to get a straight answer to a valid point! These horses have white markings, they are pure bred Arabs, they can be registered with the coloured societies. Why does the AHS not want to acknowledge them, never mind promote them? I, for one, would really like to know. |
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 4:28:36 PM
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My goodness Alan - I didn't realise that!
Sounds like certain pure bred judges will condemn you for having 'too much colour', but they won't let you take part in the classes for colour either - not a level playing field for you either way, it seems?
I would have thought if you were registered with CHAPS/BSPA as a coloured then you are? I can understand pure-breds can't be Palamino............but these are registered coloured as well as Pure bred ...
It's a bit like saying if you're registered with the BSJA as a showjumper or with BD for dressage or BSPS as a WHP then you can't also be an Arab?
Why not? |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 7:39:08 PM
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| Yes, it is crazy that we can take Picasso to CHAPS(UK) shows and show him as a pure bred Arab, thus promoting the Arabian breed but can't show him as a coloured at the AHS National Show which is supposed to be the shop window for the breed. I would have thought that any opportunity to promote Arabs should be seized upon by the AHS whether they be pure, Anglo or part bred, solid or coloured. All I would like is an explanation that isn't bullsh*t! All of the pure breds pictured on this thread could be shown in coloured horse shows but banned from coloured horses classes at The AHS Nationals. Why? |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 9:25:57 PM
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Gracious, Alan, the only way it makes sense is IF the AHS reserves the classes specifically for PARTBREDS/HALF Arabs...If that is the case then they should have a specific purebred parti-colored class! Right? Think maybe the breeders might ask for that- or should!
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 9:47:30 PM
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| Originally posted by Egbert
Gracious, Alan, the only way it makes sense is IF the AHS reserves the classes specifically for PARTBREDS/HALF Arabs...If that is the case then they should have a specific purebred parti-colored class! Right? Think maybe the breeders might ask for that- or should!
The entire reason for HAVING 'coloured' classes is to encourage PART-BRED entries - so it is entirely reasonable that purebreds are not entered!
And given that sabino purebreds are NOT discriminated against, and can compete on an equal footing in the largest Arab show in Europe (Malvern), to say nothing of all the Regional Group shows, county shows, etc that offer Arab classes, and that Coloured PBAs have just ONE class at Malvern, and a handful of others at other shows, IMO, it is absolutely NOT unreasonable that they should not be asked to give up their single class to purebreds!!!
(We are, are we not, supposed to be ENCOURAGING the use of the Arab as an 'improver' - how better than by giving coloured PBAs their one little place in the sun??)
Also, people must never forget that to the vast majority of horse owners in the UK and Ireland, 'coloured' means *exclusively* TOBIANO pinto, since the various forms of overo are either not common or not understood to be pinto. Therefore, a sabino Arab does not look 'coloured' to most people!
Also, consider this: is you ask for a special class for sabino Arabs, why should there not be one for black Arabs - they are less common. Or for bay ones, or for chestnut, or for brown, or for grey (subdivided into fleabitten, dappled and white, maybe)? And if you have these classes, what judging criteria are you going to use? Will they be judged as Arabs (which seems a bit daft, given that we already have classes for every conceivable age and gender already), or will they be judged purely on how attractive their pattern/colour is? If the latter, then you are treading on very dangerous ground. It's axiomatic that breeding with only characteristic in mind invariably results in stock that is lacking in every other quality - and breeding solely for colour in particular (which is what such classes would encourage) is about the fastest way to poor stock known to man.
Sabino is a proud part of purebred Arabian heritage, and British Arabs in particular (Aboud, Mareschal, Queen of Diamonds, Rusleem etc etc etc have won at the very highest level) so why put them in a 'ghetto' when there is no need???
Keren |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 01:05:21 AM
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Keren,
Think this really must be looked at in a different light-as an opportunity to further promote purebred Arabians. As the owner of Rusleem's full brother, and Supreme British National Champion *Rushan, don't think that a class that emphasizes colored purebreds, is unreasonable at all. People are very uneducated about parti-color and Palomino COLORED Arabians (yes, I know it is a different gene) and the fact that they are normal purebred Arabians. Proper education might enlighten those coming from others countries that parti-coloreds are to be cherished and not denigrated as they do so frequently over here.
That you would call placing them in a 'ghetto' perhaps describes your own thinking about parti-colored and unusually colored Arabians.
There is absolutely no harm whatsoever to asking for a class for those who breed a specialty within the purebred Arabian community. You have childrens classes, western classes, dressage, futurity classes...One more or less seems rather harmless and would satisfy a need for a more enlightened look at color in Arabian horses.
Currently *Rushan is at the home of the Polks' Los Acres (home of the late *Sidi Brahim) in Lodi, California learning the art of Marialva-a form of high school dressage that emphasizes the horse's enjoyment of the riding experience. Here is a photo of *Rushan taken last week with famed Portuguese rejoneador, Joao Serra-Coelho and Terry Polk's husband, working with him.
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Edited by - Egbert on 23 Nov 2008 01:13:46 AM |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 11:21:43 AM
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originally posted by MinHe
Sabino is a proud part of purebred Arabian heritage, and British Arabs in particular (Aboud, Mareschal, Queen of Diamonds, Rusleem etc etc etc have won at the very highest level) so why put them in a 'ghetto' when there is no need???
Keren
Yes, sabino is a proud part of Arabian heritage, so it should be celebrated! To suggest that by allowing pure bred sabinos to be shown in a 'ghetto' with part breds is an offensive statement to all part bred breeders. The point is that these horses are registered with the coloured horse societies. Their sabino markings meet the criteria for registration. Therefore they are 'coloured' by definition with these societies. CHAPS(UK) has a class for coloured pure and part bred Arabs. Why can't the AHS? They should be celebrated not confined to the shadows. We breed coloured part breds too and show them at Malvern. I would welcome the class opened to sabino pure breds, as long as they meet the registration requirements of the coloured societies. Not all sabinos have enough white, or white patches on the neck or body that define what a 'coloured' horse is. Keren, the sabino horses you mention could not be registered as coloured as they do not fit the criteria. 'Sabino' and 'coloured' are not synonymous.
We can show our coloured part breds at Malvern in the coloured classes, the part bred classes and the light horse classes. We can also show them at other shows in sports horse classes, hack and riding horse classes. To be only allowed to show a sabino pure bred, that is also registered as a coloured horse, in pure bred classes shows ignorance of what constitutes a coloured horse and is discriminatory. Keren, give me one good reason why pure breds should only be given the opportunity to be seen in pure bred classes because that is what you are suggesting. |
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Edited by - pintoarabian on 23 Nov 2008 12:51:35 PM |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 7:28:02 PM
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Just one other point Keren,
originally posted by MinHe
'you ask for a special class for sabino Arabs, why should there not be one for black Arabs - they are less common. Or for bay ones, or for chestnut, or for brown, or for grey (subdivided into fleabitten, dappled and white, maybe)?'
No, I am not asking for sabino classes. Please read my posts carefully. I am asking for admission of pure breds, registered with the coloured societies as coloured, into the coloured classes that already exist. Your argument regarding bays, browns, chestnuts, greys and blacks is irrelevant as there are no societies for bays, browns, chestnuts, greys and blacks but there ARE for coloureds. When a pure bred Arab is dual registered with a coloured horse society and that is stamped on its AHS passport, it should be eligible to be shown in coloured classes at ALL shows. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 10:25:08 PM
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Hi Alan,
Sorry think that was my desire to see a class for the unusually colored purebreds for those breeding for such coloration specifically, therefore I'd like to not only see sabino but black. Sabino was reportedly very common in the desert because it was bred for it's camouflage properties whilst black was quite rare and not bred for in the desert, tho' reportedly appreciated when it did come in, as it couldn't handle the sun well. Clearly the advantages of the sabino coloration is little known nor understood. A color class that emphasized it would be educational.
That said, a specific breeding class for half, partbred and anglo that have color should not be combined with purebred coloreds as it would miss the point of the class: the use of Arabians as a positive influence on certain breeds. If purebreds were allowed to compete it would defeat the purpose of the class. Thus, my thinking there should be specific classes for parti-coloreds, unusually colored Arabians.
Mea culpa,
Gari
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 5:56:10 PM
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I realise that in different countries (ie USA) that you have different registries/rulings etc and this is just my opinion.... but here in the UK ...
If a pure bred arab is allowed to have it's passport over-stamped as a coloured horse (CHAPS &/or BSPA) then it should be allowed to compete against the other coloureds.
Now, I hold my hands up here - as I did campaign against the National classes being held under CHAPS rules - as it meant all 4yr and over males had to be graded and registered with CHAPS - which urm, what shall I say, at that time ... wasn't always easy then. (Also there were other rules that didn't sit well with AHS exhibitors - like all handlers etc having to wear hats)
However, if the classes had stayed with CHAPS - then these pure bred registered CHAPS horses would have HAD to be allowed.
There is a double standard here - it isn't because they are a certain/any colour it is because they are CHAPS/BSPA resistered and the AHS doesn't seem to recognise that registry - although they allow they CHAPS/BSPA to overstamp AHS passports anyway.
So is CHAPS/BSPA recognised by the AHS or not? |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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