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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 08:17:40 AM
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After doing a lot of research and reading to find the core cause of my boy's health problems I'm pretty sure I now know what it is. He'll be tested next week but in the meantime I'm trying to get my head around how to manage Cushings. I've read that many horses get a lot better once on medication but what about exercise and riding, do you guys with horses that have cushings still ride them? And if so, how much can they happily cope with? Is endurance out of the window, or a slow hack all they can take? Does having cushings lead to automatic retirement or do horses with it go on being ridden for quite a while? How quickly does it make the horse worse, is it quickly downhill or a slow gradual process?
Thanks in advance for your help  
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West Sussex |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 08:55:11 AM
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| There aren't any clear answers to your questions because it presents in various ways in various horses. There is a good chance Shah might be as good as new for a very long time on the right medication though, and life can carry on as before. Getting in touch with the Laminitis Clinic would be a good idea and I really recommend you use the test they use, which involves getting a special kit and your vet has to take blood first thing in the morning before he has eaten anything, then centrfuge the blood and send it off chilled ( or frozen---can't remember exactly)---other tests involve injecting steroid into the horse, which can cause laminitis. |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 10:08:07 AM
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| my boy has had medication for cushings for a number of years 6 maybe even 7. he is still exercised everyday. obviously at his age he is not in hard work but the cushings hasn't made any difference whatsoever. |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 3:41:56 PM
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| As said, Cushings, doesn't affect all horses in exactly the same way. I have had two with Cushings. Both had long, curly, winter coats that were slow to shed in the summer and both seemed to have weakened immune systems, being more prone to minor infections and occasional losses of appetite. One, a gelding who was diagnosed at 22, had very brief episodes of sudden collapse and therefore couldn't be ridden for safety reasons. Latterly, he also developed laminitis. It was difficult to keep weight on and he finally lost his battle two years later when his kidneys started to fail. He was on Pergolide to ease his symptoms and the medication undoubtedly helped. The other, an elderly mare, was diagnosed at 25. She wasn't on Pergolide but managed sympathetically on a high fibre, low starch and low sugar diet. She also was difficult to keep weight on but was ridden lightly for a year or two. She didn't get laminitis and died peacefully in her sleep aged 28. In both of mine, it was a slow, gradual process but the condition did progress, even with the one on Pergolide. Pixie's boy shows that there is hope and that it doesn't manifest itself in the same way in all horses. |
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Edited by - pintoarabian on 31 Oct 2008 3:44:19 PM |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 7:00:46 PM
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My boy was diagnosed with cushings at 13, he's never had a curly coat etc etc, he's worked 5 times a week and I really think it's a good idea as the cushings plays havoc with muscle wasage, so if you can keep him supple all the better.
He has one dressage lesson a week and is competed regularly.
Bruka is on one pergolide a day at a cost of £30 per 100.
He looked awful when he was diagnosed, lost his muscle and neck, had odd fat pads in odd places, was letharic and generally depressed.. but was back on top form within 3 months of starting his medication 
The only thing I have trouble with is keeping him interested in hard feed, I end up regularly changing to keep him eating as he's not a greedy horse to start with , but he keeps his weight well with plenty of good haylege
The blood test is straight forward .
Best of luck Shah, let me know how you get on 
Seems we have more and more in common !! LV and now cushings LOL !!
susie |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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NUTTER
Platinum Member
England
2452 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 8:38:54 PM
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Friend of mine one of hers was diagnosed about 6 years ago,
She carried on in work until about 4 years ago BUT she is at least 38 !!!
Farrior trims hooves every 3 weeks and she clips her all year round..
Biggest problem was keeping weight on her... but again this is a old mare The only feed that seems to keep her weight on and keep her active is bluechip..
Hope all goes well for yours..
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 11:58:46 PM
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| This has made interesting reading, I have only known two horses with this. The first lady was just fine and dandy, she was only diagnosed as she had a bout of laminitis at an odd time and the vet noticed fat lumps above her eyes, sadly this girl went very quickly as we couldnt clear the laminitis. The other one is my old pall Billy Medley. (thats the horse by the way ) he got a bit of a long coat last year, shed it half way through the winter, and then grew a new one? We thought that odd and maybe cushings could be a suspect, but he had no other symptoms and shed his coat in spring as normal, this year, the poor guy dropped so much condition and lost so much muscle over a two week period it was frightening. Blood tests confirmed cushings last week. We have noticed loss of appetite, as well as an increased thirst and with that comes lots of weeing, he has a very wet mushy bed in the morning? i dont know if this is a symptom as well? Anyway after all of thatlong winded story, all i wanted to say was thanks, its good to know that his symptoms are normal. And i will tell my friend (the human one ) to expect some results within the next couple of months. hope everyone elses horses continue to do well. Ps. Cant remember the name of who posted that they got 100 tablets for 30 days. Is this from your vet or another source? Only asking as my friend is feeding 1 per day and hers are about £25 a month from the vet. |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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saddlebred
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1706 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2008 : 12:43:16 PM
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Hi there
Looking back on it, my old girl has probably had the first stages of Cushings since she was 15. She had a long coat which did shed but grew back long all through the year. She had no other symptoms so my vet on the annual check didnt feel that we needed to test her. I believe there is a risk of inducing laminitis from the test itself. Fayre has never had laminitis and was working regularly and happily.
Last year I decided to have the test and it was positive. She has been on one tablet of Pergolide since then and I have noticed a marked difference with her seeming even happier in herself, she drinks less and urinates less.
My mare looks like a much younger horse, is very fit and I have noticed no difference in her performance whatsoever. She is now 26 years of age and still rides like a 7 year old. Cushings is usually no need to retire a horse and is definitely not a death sentence.
I am sure that Shah will be fine once he is on his medication. Good luck.
Debs |
Based Bewdley Worcs |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2008 : 2:50:20 PM
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It was me
i get a prescription from my vet and get them them from the chemist! LOADS cheaper then the vet, they charge between £45-£125 for the same amount  depending on your vet.
the excessive wet bed is the cushings, they have an increased water intake so it makes them wetter. also decreased appetite so keep an eye on them clearing their hardfeed, i have a hard time keeping him interested 
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www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2008 : 5:00:06 PM
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Thanks guys for all your replies. Reading all of that makes me even more convinced it's cushings. He's weeing more, drinking more, poor immune system, can't shake off viruses, has always sweated more than other horses, very lethargic (reason I started wondering what's wrong), slightly sway backed, has lost muscle tone over the topline this summer, pot bellied but still can feel ribs, and is growing a massive teddy bear coat at the moment. But what clinched it for me was reading that one of the supplements he was having earlier this year is also given to horses to delay the onset of cushings and he's never been better in the whole of his life as when he was on that liquid and all our problems started when he came off it.
So, I'll be speaking to the vet tomorrow. Fingers crossed we can get it diagnosed asap and get him onto pergolide plus back onto the supplement I know worked!! If anyone is interested it was MagFluid from Roger at Trinity Consultants.
Susie - yep, even more in common, I'm so glad it's not just me |
West Sussex |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2008 : 5:39:23 PM
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Definately sounds cushionoid to me Shah It's not the end of the world though hun, to be honest it hasn't affected Bruka much at all now its under control
The lethargy and pot belly, loss of muscle tone etc were the first things I noticed In Bruka, but he's A-okay now |
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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marg
Junior Member
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2008 : 11:08:28 PM
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| Hi, i'm quite new in here but i have an arab mare with cushings and she started off with a very bad bout of laminitas which we couldn't clear up even after weeks of stabling and bute it was my insistence that the vet test for cushings as she was sweating down the neck,had fatty lumps above the eyes when the test was done the vet took a blood test gave the steroid injection and came back the following morning to re blood test it was positive she was put straight on pergolide and has been on that 12 months now and has had no further bouts of laminitas and seems to be doing well. she was before the medication drinking a lot more water than normal but now is back to normal although i have noticed the fatty lumps over her eyes have returned. Good luck with your horse and i hope this helps. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2008 : 5:12:54 PM
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Vet coming next week to do a fasting blood test early in the morning. I'm also supposed to catch some urine for a sample in a small pot!!!!! Anyone done that before and can give some tips on how to best catch some?? It needs to be fresh so I can't let him stand on concrete for hours and then put him on a fresh bed (normal way), and he's not allowed to eat in the morning of the blood test so I can't lead him out in long grass (other normal way for him to go) - so any tips will be gratefully received 
In the meantime I've also spoken to Roger at Trinity who agrees with me about it potentially being peripheral cushings. He's had lots of good success with MagFluid in early cushings horses so I'm definitely putting Shah back on it. We may even be able to make do with the MagFluid and not have to go onto pergolide yet if everything goes well. |
West Sussex |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2008 : 6:39:17 PM
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What a faff of a bloodtest
For Bruka the vet just took blood and sent it off It took about 7 days to come back and showed all the cortisones etc . |
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 09:45:59 AM
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It does sound like Cushings. Hopefully your vet will put him on pergolide quickly and you'll start to see an improvement in a week or two.
The blood test should be really simple - when Khafif had her test done it taken at 9 in the morning, khafif was allowed breakfast and hay, no fasting needed. It was one that measures ACTH, Insulin and Cortisol so no risk involved. As for getting a wee sample, er, good luck!
Could you check with your vet that he's not going to use the dex suppression test as that does carry a risk of causing laminitis and the ACTH test is far safer. But there's another test which my first horse had which involves taking two samples as well, don't know the details of that as it was some time ago. With her the test allegedly came back negative for Cushings but I've since found out that in fact the results were certainly indicative of Cushings. TBH it sounds as if the tests aren't that reliable anyway and you're best going on physical symptoms. |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 10:08:43 AM
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my boy only had bloods taken - two samples. which proved inconclusive but every other sympton was pointed in the cushings direction. didn't have the dex suppression test. has been on medication since and he is well.
the reason for posting this - oops went off track there was to say - there was no fasting or urine samples in his case either. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 11:56:04 AM
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Have checked with vet and it's not the dex suppression test. The fasting blood test is not that bad as he's allowed dinner and normal amount of hay overnight with bloods taken at 08.30. As he's only on one feed a day (starting with breakfast next week) that's normal routine for him so shouldn't upset him too much.
Might have to do the urine the day before as I'm really unsure about how to catch it otherwise
Will let you all know how it goes next week... |
West Sussex |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 1:31:42 PM
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That's good, Shah. When I wanted a definite diagnosis with Khafif the vet turned up prepared to do the dex suppression test and was rather surprised I was so adamant he wasn't going near her with a needle in that case!
Good luck, in a way I hope the diagnosis is Cushings as that way you've got something to work with and can get him started on drugs. |
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 5:47:08 PM
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Shah - can't you stand him on concrete until vet arrives & takes the blood sample, then take him onto grass/straw & catch urine sample immediately before vet leaves?
There are quite a few tests which can help disgnoses Cushing's syndrome in a horse, but unfortunately no single test which gives a definitive yes or no answer. Each Practice will have it's own protocol which they believe to be best. |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
Edited by - ella on 05 Nov 2008 5:47:45 PM |
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Renee
Gold Member
539 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 10:38:17 PM
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Hi Shah
I have had 3 with cushings. The first, an elderly Arab mare (on loan as a companion from the ILPH rescue centre) got quite bad laminitis, was tested positive for cushings, put on pergolide, never improved in fact got worse so I had her put down - my only regret was that I should have done it sooner. The second was my old Arab gelding who was diagnosed in his late 20's, I didn't put him on pergolide but used herbs (vitex agnus castus) a special anti-tumour herbal mix, lots of stuff for the liver & kidneys (milk thistle, etc), and homoeopathy (ACTH, Quercus Robur). I fully clipped him all year round and used wicking rugs to avoid him sweating &/or getting wet/cold. What really helped was having a big light put up in his stable which was full spectrum light (like the sun). I had this on a timer so that it mimicked summer time and believe it really helped. He went on, quite happily until aged 34 and never got laminitis although his coat was thick, he was immune compromised and had the bulgy eyes, etc. Most horses with cushings are much worse in winter. I now have a miniature with pre-cushings / metabolic syndrome, last year she was on pergolide and got really depressed with no improvement in the laminitis. During the summer I gave up and stopped giving her the pergolide as she was so unhappy and I really thought I'd have to have her put down. I decided, with my vet, to give it a last shot and put her on all the stuff I used with my old gelding, didn't see a huge improvement, but at least some, until I put the big light in her yard about 4 weeks ago - literally a few feet above her head! She's looking tons better and most importantly, isn't hopping lame and is quite cheery. She actually cantered for the first time in months. Pergolide is a very powerful drug and it doesn't do the liver or kidneys any good, although it can work for some horses it doesn't work at all with others. It's worth trying these other therapies, and I would highly recommend the light! Cheers, Renee |
      
Jeago (Ludomino x Bahia) 1973-2007 & Khylie* (Nazdrowie x Kaminah) 1990-2010 ~ Fouad el Khyl (Lothar el Nyhl x Khylie) 2005- |
Edited by - Renee on 06 Nov 2008 10:40:41 PM |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 09:25:13 AM
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I used Vitex for a couple of years with khafif before going onto pergolide (which might be why the vet refused to believe she had Cushings to start with!) and I think when they show first symptoms it's a good idea to start on Vitex to see if it helps. Unfortunately my mare had her worst bout of laminitis while on Vitex and it was only the pergolide that helped her The difference in her on pergolide though was very obvious - proper summer coat, lost all the strange fat pads, no fat pads over her eyes, better muscle tone. Sadly the last bout of laminitis had caused too much damage so although she never had another attack she had to be PTS from the damage done.
If you try Vitex, Jackie JATaylor sells it more cheaply than you can get it anywhere else - http://www.metabolichorse.co.uk/ is her website. She is a mine of information on Cushings and Metabolic problems so is well worth getting in touch with. |
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