| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 3:05:06 PM
|
How do you know when it's time to retire or semi-retire your horse?
Shah is now 18, going on 19, and after having a bad year culminating with a virus two months ago, he's changed a lot during the last couple of weeks. He's really slowed down and it feels like he's telling me that he doesn't want to do the training and the long rides anymore even though he loves doing the actual endurance rides.
YO thinks he's just taking the mick and I shouldn't let him (YO is also his owner) but every time I ride him he just feels old and tired. We went for a lovely hack yesterday with company but he was just trying to turn around the whole time, stopped for no reason several times and the only time he perked up was in a canter up a steep hill. After the climb he felt like an old man just shuffling forwards. When I tack him up he just stands there with his feet planted and I have to drag him along to get him going.
I was hoping to do one last endurance ride in three weeks time but trying to get him fit for it is proving to be an endurance in itself and I wonder if it's not time to call it a day. It's heartbreaking to even think about it after all we've been through and I can't afford to have another one so for me it will also mean no riding for a while, even more heartbreaking, but I want to make the best decision for him.
ps. he's just had back, saddle, etc etc etc all checked and he looks very well otherwise
|
West Sussex |
|
Report to moderator
|
|
|
georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 3:17:21 PM
|
Maybe he's just a bit sour with the training you've been doing. Try giving him a good break and slightly different exercise routine or do some fun ground work with him  Next season is a good bit away and by then he may have overcome his weariness |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 3:33:17 PM
|
Why not give him a winter holiday now and get him up after Christmas and see how he's going then. Maybe this virus has knocked the stuffing out of him more than you realise. A bit like flu does to a person, you can be over it but you take ages to get your old zip back again.
If he were mine I would feed him really well and give him lots of TLC and a good rest and just see how he is and make decision then. I do hope he's okay. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
ACGODFREY
Silver Member
United Kingdom
440 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 3:40:19 PM
|
What is Shah like when you take him somewhere new? Can you take him on new hacks to train for the endurance rides?
My boy is a gent on the ground but really considers he should just eat, eat, eat until he explodes! Like alot of folk his workload gets upped from March through to September and he is worked about 5 days a week, but generally by July he is sour and starts to get a bad attitude i.e not being caught, being lazy and grumping at the sight of the saddle! He has been fully checked over and the general consensus is that he can't really be bothered with it all - particularly schooling. However, take him somewhere new, or add a few jumps into his schooling and he totally perks up . I think he just gets really bored with the same old hacks, same old school etc. However, I have worked out that making such a massive fuss of him in the school when he does well and having an endless supply of polos for him as reward usually makes him rather keen to try a little harder.
Just a thought! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 4:28:03 PM
|
Gedenski is 20 and we still compete but he's not always that keen on hacking out at home (though not to the extent it sounds like with Shah) so we keep to the lower distances when competing and take it steady (as steady as he'll let me anyway!). Have you got Shah on a joint supplement? I found it made the world of difference to Ged - he's on Cosequin. Without it he feels old and stiff. On it he's so much happier. The fact he had a virus a couple of months ago could also have taken a lot out of him, so perhaps give him a holiday like Suelin says and see what he's like when you bring him back into work. A blood test might also be useful if you haven't had one already - will tell you if the virus has had any lasting negative affect.
It's a pity you don't live near me as I'd love someone to help me ride mine - there's never enough hours in the day. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 5:07:01 PM
|
| rule of thumb not direct science - for every day they have a virus expect a week for them to recover. i.e. if the virus lasted 2 weeks then it will take 14 weeks for a full recovery. as they get older this period gets even longer. if they are just a bit off colour then this is a different matter but a full on make them ill virus really knocks the stuffing out of them. give him time. good luck. |
  |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 6:09:07 PM
|
| I'd agree about the recovery time, we all know how some humans take months to recover from viral conditions, and some horses do just age suddenly, working him if he is still under the weather won't do him any favours. Have you looked at adding something to his feed to boost his immune system. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 08:20:04 AM
|
Thanks guys for your advise. He's been on a high dose of aloe vera (internally) for 4 weeks now as it's the only thing that I can give him as an immune system booster (all other immune system boosters sets his LV off) plus hepaphyt gold from hilton herbs for his chest/respiratory system. They've both really helped and I'm now switching him onto a maintenance dose. As for a joint supplement, yes it might be a good idea. I'm skinned so any suggestions as to what the cheapest and best one is?
I was hoping to do the Devils Dyke ride in 3 weeks as we've only done 3 rides this year. He was vetted out at one due to a deep stone cut on his heel, causing him to have 4 weeks off lame in May, he then had a bad bout of LV in Jun/Jul, another 2 weeks off, then the virus in July so in Aug we only walked lightly. I then want to cut down to ride/walk 1-2 times a week for the rest of Oct/Nov and then let him have the whole of Dec off as I'm on holiday anyway. I worry about giving him too much time off as he's prone to muscle wastage, chiro already not happy about the muscle wastage he's had due to the virus.
He's already sour of showing, dressage and anything to do in the sandschool or in the field we get to ride on. I do take him out int he trailer regularly but haven't been able to do as much as usual due to him being unfit and recovering from all his illnesses. Last time we were out he didn't feel right either, not ill, just old and tired. |
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 08:27:21 AM
|
| Have you had a recent Blood test??? |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 08:55:37 AM
|
| No, vet didn't think he needed it. When he had his injections last week she said he looks and behaves much better than he's ever done before!!! |
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 09:06:12 AM
|
A horse belonging to a friend of mine had a virus last spring, and it was almost winter before he was even reasonably OK - and he is only in his early teens. I also found it took a long time for my older hosre to get over a virus she had last year - I think it's just one of those things you have to be very patient about.
I've had to give my older horse most of this year off - now the nights are drawing in I can finally ride her again, it's taken all summer to get her to keep weight on! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 09:44:09 AM
|
| I would trust your instincts. Taking into consideration all above advice, maybe he just wants to have some fun, does'nt mean he has to be retired, just not compete. |
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 09:46:58 AM
|
Another horse on the yard had the same virus at the same time. She's now back hunting with no signs of ill effect, no tiredness, nothing changed. Ok, she's five years younger than Shah, but still. It wasn't a full-on virus, it was just a cough and chest infection.
I can understand that they need a lot of time off after a virus and if I have to give him three months off so be it but that means that I have to give him up. This is going to sound worse than I mean so please don't take offence, I've done more than what most people would do for their horses during the past five years, but I can't afford to keep a horse and not ride him for three months without knowing whether he will be sound at the end or not. Plus it will then take me three months to get him back to normality, including building up his poor back, he's then back into the summer and the chronic LV comes back...it's a vicious circle of ill health, restart him, ill health, restart him. This is why I'm asking whether it's just best to semi-retire him, give him a few months off and leave it up to the owners to try and find him another sharer/loanee while I go off and cry my eyes out (already doing that)  |
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
emma
Gold Member
816 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 09:49:38 AM
|
I was training one for the marathon a few years ago and she got fit but then seemed to plateau and just wouldnt get fitter (admitedly she was fitter than everything else on the yard and to everyone else seemed the picture of health but i just knew there was something missing). We had a blood test done and she was anaemic, vet said the virus she had earlier in the year had left her anaemic. It was easily sorted and she was back to normal.
There was an article in a recent H & H about anaemia, its probably viewable on their website. |
Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 11:36:53 AM
|
Emma, what an excellent idea. I looked at his gums the other day to check for dehydration (which he wasn't) but I remember thinking to myself that they look very pale, and his eyes the same, not then thinking the next step of why that is. The LV makes him bleed spontaneously so he's lost of a bit of blood with that, then the virus on top. I now have hope again 
Can't find the article on H&H so if you have a link that would be great - also, what did you use for it? Something like an iron/Bvit supplement? The nettles are probably not strong enough at the moment but I'll cut some and put in for him to eat as well.
Goldenmane, endurance competitions means just lots of fun to Shah, they are the only thing he really loves. Nothing else gives him any fire in his belly so they are also the last thing I want to give up  |
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 12:27:12 PM
|
Hope you can work it out and get him back to his normal self. Keep us posted and fingers crossed for you both :)
|
     
Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Merlot
Platinum Member
England
3260 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 2:15:40 PM
|
If he were mine, I'd let this year go and pick him up again in the New Year. He's not old by any means but it will take him longer to get over a virus or any other underlying problems than a younger horse. Maybe he's telling you that he's not quite ready yet. Time is a great healer.
My old lad used to be like a Blackpool donkey at home when it came to getting him fit for his endurance, think he was just bored. Used to hack him up to Watership Down on a weekend though and that used to perk him up no end and it was always a different story once at a ride.
It wouldn't be a hard decision for me (disappointing yes) - I'd always put him first. There's always next season. |
 photo by Eric G Jones |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
emma
Gold Member
816 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 2:38:17 PM
|
Hi Shah
I used red cell and lots of guiness but thats going back a few years there are probably newer stronger supplements about nowadays but your vet would be able to recommend the best iron one if that is what the blood test shows.
The article was in the magazine a couple of weeks ago i think with a few recommended supplements, i will have a look for the article although i may not have kept that magazine. But i too will check the website as i thought they put them on there too.
If he is a regular bleeder then he may well be anaemic.
It may be that he may benefit to a winter holiday, my mare did take a while to pick up and we missed the marathon. Perhaps he fancies a change of scene? But you are right in that you are the one that knows him well enough to know he isnt himself, unlike YO who perhaps doesnt have the same bond.
|
Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 5:58:34 PM
|
I'd have him blood tested just to be safe, Bruka was diagnosed with cushings ( he had none of the 'normal' signs) he just wasn't himself, quite, not bothered about working etc etc.
at first he was diagnosed as aneamic and given a hemo 7 jab and he perked up massively within 24 hours! but he was back to where we began inside a month 
Another hemo 7 jab and off we went again, another month and back down again.
I just took him to the vets and told them to test EVERYTHING !  the found he had cushings and DJD in his pasterns and fetlocks 
BUT - now he's better then ever with his meds every day he's happy as a pig in poo
He could just perhaps be feeling his age though Shah, and perhaps his legs a bit ??
have a blood test and see what comes back, if nothing comes up then perhaps he just wants to be a happy hacker a few times a week - and theres nothing wrong with that! |
   
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
emma
Gold Member
816 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 10:38:41 AM
|
| Just had a thought too that if you and he are struggling to be prepared for endurance ride in order to get him out as he seems to want to do something you could do a sponsored ride. Just thought there are always a few about this time of year and it wouldnt require the same level of fitness and could be done at a speed to suit him. |
Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Caro23
Gold Member
United Kingdom
617 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 2:33:25 PM
|
Hello - maybe he justs needs a bit more time. My 22 year old Fjord mare Gretel suffered laminitis and respiratory problems a few years ago and I retired her... well I did for a few months and she looked so sad. We started hacking again and haven't look back but she is a different horse, some days she pings around and has a spring in her step and other days she isn't interested. This time of year is always her worst as she changes coat. She still does some sponsored rides but I have to just see how she is and let her decide. But I always try and make her feel like she is still part of the riding/daily routine and will continue to ride her until she lets me know that she doesn't want to and Gretel will let me know, she is very strong willed!
I'd say time is really important and perhaps he still isn't feeling quite right, not ill but not 100%?
He is such a handsome chap Give him a hug from me  |
Caro
     |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
leezee26
Gold Member
England
1123 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 4:08:19 PM
|
| I was going to suggest a blood test too. My 24 yr old displayed very similar tendencies and a blood test showed he was slightly aneamic, popped him on a iron supp and he's like a flaming 3 yr old again!! I would also be tempted to forget about training and endurance for this year, maybe not stop him altogether and then bring him back to it next Spring, God willing. Keep us posted, good luck! Leighx |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Crusaders Angel
Gold Member
England
531 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 4:27:30 PM
|
Hi there
You asked about a cheap joint supplement - at the moment Vet-mins (I think that's what they're called) or it could be Vet-Vits, has an offer on their Glucosamine HCL. Its only about £16 for months supply.
I'll have a look tonight when I get home to see if there is a web-site, or maybe someone on here knows the proper name/web address.
Lucy |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 5:08:11 PM
|
I would get a blood test it will give you an idea of what is going on.
Apart from the normal Hb and so forth get a sodium and magnesium level done too.
You think he is not fit enough to do the Devils Dyke ride, see what the blood test tells you and then take him. You can always just down grade and do 26km NCR you can then take your time if you need to and you can see if that helps him.
There have been some funny things around this year and many horses have not performed well.
also you could try this for his joints.I use to use it on my old pony and it kept him competeing into his 20's
http://www.healthspan.co.uk/pet-health/equiflex-feed-supplement-hors/ProductDetail-p3206-c3182.aspx
Talk to me tomorrow via messenger.
Keep your chin up it will be sorted.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
Edited by - Pauline on 30 Sep 2008 5:19:16 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lulu
Gold Member
763 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 7:57:56 PM
|
Thea had a virus a couple of winters ago, she became very lethargic and at one point I had to walk her back to the yard, she was moving badly through her rear end. Vet did all sorts of tests and said her white cells were very low, gave her medication and she was ok. but I went to Brendon and they advised me to put her on NAF pink powder, did the trick.
Linda |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 8:39:39 PM
|
Thanks a lot for all your advise. I've been thinking hard and my gut feel is that this is what I should do:
1. Started iron/Bvit supplement yesterday as he needed a new vit/min powder anyway so I might as well get something with plenty of iron in, will try nettles and watercress as well (do horses eat beetroot?)
2. If no change on that in one week I'll get a blood test done, at that point i'll also cancel or downgrade the ride and give him some rest. But my gut says it's anaemia so I'll try that first. I've tried pink powder Linda (he's been on that for the last couple of months) and no difference. But went to Brendons and they recommended one of the iron liquids so fingers crossed!!
In the meantime I'm nursing some bruising from being nocked over and jumped over with hooves brushing against me, nearly hitting my head  My fault entirely! I was too late (overwhelmed with work at the moment) with the dinner, Shah was getting annoyed at me trying to do his stretches as he could see the dinner standing there since I was late I'd taken it out to him in the field rather than bring him in. It was darkish, windy, the hedge rattled behind him while I was standing right in front of him, moving from one side to another as he's been so good lately I've let my guard slip. Yep, you've guessed it, he spooked forwards, knocked me off my feet flat onto my back, head bump on the ground, all I can see is the flying horse and four hooves coming right over me, and I mean right over me from feet to head, not the other way!!! Luckily he just brushed both my arms on the outside and the inside of my leg, he didn't step on me at all. Not sure who was most shocked afterwards! Using arnica and whisky to calm me down now. I hate that feeling of seeing the hooves coming hoping they will miss you.
Once he'd had his dinner and was back in the field his young play mate made him canter around the field in mad gallop for 10 minutes and he's not an ounce stiff so no joint supplement needed me thinks They look so lovely cantering around, tail up, stops to snort, few flying trot steps, then off again..... Nope, he's not ready for retirement yet, he's a tough old boot according to arachnid and I say he's not ready to hang the boots up yet |
West Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked 