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Claire
Silver Member
 England
422 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 7:48:31 PM
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Just wondered if anyone has any experience of this as my pony has just developed laminitis apparently due to cushings, despite being stabled for 4 weeks as companion to my horse who was on box rest.
I just wondered what the prognosis is like, he is 29 and was started on pergolide last week. He does seem brighter now and is also on bute and ACP so it is difficult to make a judgement as he is so sleepy from the ACP.
I am so very worried as I have had him since I was six- 17 years and can't bear the thought of losing him.
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Suffolk |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 8:41:20 PM
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| Thanks for that gossy- it sounds reasonably optimistic- I am just pondering whether to get a hilton herbs supplement called cushx . Vet is coming back to see us next week so hopefully it will be good news. |
Suffolk |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
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heatherr
Platinum Member
England
1882 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 10:16:57 PM
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When my mare was finally diagnosed with Cushings 3 years ago, I put her on Cush X straight away and the improvement in her was dramatic. This condition does however deteriorate and she had to go on pergolide a year later as we could not control the laminitis. She is 28 now, still in light work and is as perky and wonderful as she has always been and a glowing picture of health. I have her blood tested yearly to make sure the pergolide is doing it's job as the dose will ultimately need to be increased.
With careful management, your boy should have a good few years yet so don't panic and wishing him a speedy recovery from his lami attack. |
Heather 
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 08:14:48 AM
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I've had two PTS with Cushings related laminitis - Khafif was PTS a year ago today  I would definitely, without hesitation, go for pergolide if I had another diagnosed with Cushings, Khafif was diagnosed too late for the pergolide to be able to help control the laminitis but nevertheless the difference in her once she started the drug was amazing. Unfortunately, the laminitis had caused too much damage to her feet in the end.
Have you had xrays done of his feet? If there isn't too much rotation (or better still, none), then I think the pergolide will really help to control the laminitis once he gets over this attack. Although Khafif never got over her last bout of it, because of the amount the pedal bone had rotated, she didn't have any more attacks of acute laminitis once she started on pergolide. She did still have to be managed carefully though, as too much grass would cause a problem - a slight increase in digital pulse was enough for me to have to restrict her again.
Yes, pergolide dose may need to be increased but you may also find you can decrease it at certain times of the year. Khafif went up to 1.5 tablets sometimes, but during winter I was able to reduce it to half a tablet. It really was a case of playing it by ear all the time.
Vitex is good in the early stages but TBH, with the experience I've had I would rather go straight for pergolide. Khafif was on Vitex when the vet refused to agree she had Cushings but it did stop working so well after a couple of years (yes, it took that long for a vet to agree with me). I'm not sure whether you can/should use any form of Vitex with pergolide though.
I would normally rather go a herbal route whenever possible with my horses but Cushings is definitely an exception where I'd prefer to get the drugs quickly.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse/
Is an excellent group to join, very informative and helped me a huge amount when I first knew Khafif had a problem. She was insulin resistant for years before the Cushings was diagnosed.
Good luck, hope he gets over this laminitis and the pergolide does its job. Khafif was hardly ever ridden anyway but after the way she improved in herself within a month of going on pergolide, if she'd have come sound I'd have thought about starting to ride her quietly.
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 1:17:56 PM
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Hi,
I had my old boy on Pergolide too for nearly 4 years, it took a while for the medication to get to its optimum effect, sorry I cant actually remember how long but you do start to see a marked improvement within several weeks.
He only had one mild bout of Cushings induced laminitis so very little damage was done fortunately. He led a very happy life and was pts as he developed a type of cancer that affects the plasma which was unrelated to the Cushings. That was after 4 years.
Good luck with it, its a terrible worry I know but Pergolide is worth every penny in my opinion. Getting Magnum to take it was a bit of a trial as he would not take it in any kind of food. I had to throw it down his throat and he would spit it back out fairly often. I always gave it to him outside as if he spat it out into his bedding I may have missed it. Little monkey that he was.
Gail x |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 1:28:37 PM
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I tihnk it takes around a month to get to full effect, but I know of people who have seen an improvement within days. Don't know if you've been told but after a few days they can lose their appetite, if that happens splitting the tablet into two feeds helps. The appetite returns after a week or two though.
Khafif had to have it in a carrot most of the time, she hated it and a carrot was the only way she'd take her tablet!
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 5:47:35 PM
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Hi everyone,
many thanks for your replies and advice - William seems brighter and tried to barge out of his stable this morning- getting back to his normal cheeky self!!
he has 1/4 of a pergolide tablet daily which i push into the centre of a polo but as you say he doesn't always seem to have an appetite even for mints!
we haven't had him x-rayed as yet as the vet didn't think that the pedal bone had moved too much- but she is coming out thurs so I guess we will go from there.
He has been retired for about 10 years but has been so happy as a companion to my arab - they are absolutely devoted to each other..
I am going to order some cush x and need to beg borrow or steal some clippers to get some of his woolies off- on vets advice although I am a bit loath to do this with winter coming |
Suffolk |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 7:13:21 PM
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Hopefully you'll find next year, on pergolide, his coat will be better. A trace clip might be a good idea for him now though if he's really hairy.
With the xrays, I had my first horse xrayed when the laminitis wouldn't go away (vet refused to believe she had Cushings) her pedal bones had shown no movement at all yet she was crippled. Yet her daughter, Khafif, who like her mother developed Cushings at around 13, became sound - albeit for only a short time - with bad rotation. There's no logic with it sometimes. |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2008 : 1:44:29 PM
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My boy was diagnosed with cushings 3 years ago at the age of 13 
he's on one 1mg pergolide a day and has never been better!! 
If you get a prescription from the vet and buy it at the chemist it only works out at about £30 for 100 days
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Veem
Junior Member
France
42 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2008 : 2:44:42 PM
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Whilst researching canine Cushing's (our dog has recently been diagnosed) I came across the report of a 2001 study into the use of 'standardised' homeopathy (combined ACTH and Quercus Robor) for treating Cushing's in dogs and horses. It makes interesting reading and I was impressed by the results. We have now purchased sufficient of the remedy for 110 days at a cost of £15 (+ p&p) which we hope will help our elderly dog.
www.homeopathicvet.co.uk/Resources.htm The report is under the heading 'Research' on the right hand side.
I hope this might help.
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Veem |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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Veem
Junior Member
France
42 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2008 : 4:16:46 PM
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Thanks for the word of warning. My understanding is that the homeopathy can work for both species. Apparently the root cause of equine Cushing's always starts in the pituitary gland, whereas in about 5% of dogs it is a problem specifically with the adrenal gland. (I think the report explains this better than I have!) I corresponded with the author of the report (a qualified UK vet) before purchasing the remedy. Although the symptoms of the two species seem to vary, the physical effects (eg equine hair gain/canine hair loss) all relate to increased levels of cortisol.
I hope I've got that right! I've been on a very steep learning curve for the past 3 weeks. |
Veem |
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 8:01:55 PM
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DONT CLIP JUST YET!!!!
Magnum had 1 Pergolide tablet a day and the hairy coat changed back to normal fairly quickly. Especially at this time of year when the coat is changing naturally. A quarter tablet seems a timy dose it might even be sub therapeutic but only time will tell. My vet told me to put him straight on to 1 tablet and the results were great.
Good luck keep us posted.
Gail x |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 08:48:58 AM
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| Good point! I never clipped Khafif and her coat did change to a normal one once she was on the pergolide - and of course this time of year they're changing coats too so the pergolide might work to help give a normal winter coat. |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 12:50:45 PM
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| Cushings doesn't affect them all in the same way or to the same degree. Pergolide never affected my horse's coat length as it still grew in curly and long in winter but it did prevent the epileptic type seizures and helped control laminitis. Dosage is also a trial and error basis too as each horse will respond in slightly different ways. Would agree that starting on one tablet is best and to reduce dosage when symptoms appear to be getting under control but to keep that under review and to increase again if required.. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 7:47:57 PM
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Crikey I feel so lucky that my boy is still doing so well with his cushings 
he's never had a long / curly coat.... but when I clipped him last year ( all off as in full work) it was a bugger to get through! lovely and smooth... but seemed like a 'double' coat 
Very strange indeed I'll see what he's like this year.
Ref the doasge, the tablets vary loads, another horse on my yard is on 3 .25mg tablets a day ( don't understand why ) where as my boy is just on 1 1mg tablet..
Best of luck and a long and happy life ! |
www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 2:38:25 PM
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Hi everyone thanks for all the replies, just to give you an update ...
My vet visited this morning and seems pleased with william's progress. We got him out on to the yard for the first time in 2wks and though he is walking more slowly than usual he no longer seems sore and didn't want to go back into his stable!
We now have three more weeks of box rest until vet comes again to see if six weeks of pergolide are effective!
I've also got my cush x on order from hilton herbs so hopefully he will have a good few years yet. |
Suffolk |
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