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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 3:07:21 PM
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I would just like to say that there are so many beautiful foals this year. Cannot wait to see them performing.
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 8:41:31 PM
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| It certainly is today. I still have two of my original breedings but do know where all except two fo the others are. I am not even going to try and sell Anna now even though she will not have a foal for me. I will probably try and find someone to ride her. |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 8:54:10 PM
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Lynda you are so correct - ok we love breeding the occasional foal some of us take great care in deciding on the eventual partnership. All I ever try to do - if and when I ever sell a foal (don't tell my hubbie) is to try and find the very best home for them and I am sure you like me always offer a "buy back" if things go wrong.
Sadly these days it seems some people go into breeding with the thought of "have uterus will cover" without any thought of what the eventual offspring will be like. Or others who actually have NEVER bred a foal before in their life but seem to enjoy the limelight.
Lynda you and I have been around too long to see what happens to these foals (eventually) but how to change some people is beyond me.
Pashon - I still have here some of my original mares - which I bred, were born here and will die here - last count was SIX and I am sure some of my recent Russian purchases and their offspring will probably outlive me
Think long and hard before you breed and remember you have a responsibility to the foal you breed for the rest of its life - therefore take care in finding the right homes for them They can't go out and chose where they end up, they rely upon YOU. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 10:02:27 PM
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| Totally agree Jingo. Your thoughts have been echoed in another thread, but you are so right. We have to be responsibility for what we breed. |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 01:51:56 AM
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I also have several that were born here, and will die here, others that were bought and will die here. BUT, most people including myself raise foals to sell, that doesnt mean I don't care. If people didnt breed and sell there would be no horses for everyone to ride and enjoy. I have ALWAYS offered the buy back option on any foal I have sold.
I am in the lucky situation of having a queue this year. And although one or two will be advertised, everyone else has a 'person' already! |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 09:18:02 AM
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| There are a finite amount of homes for the horses, how many people in this country are in an envious position to have land and stables? I have bred arabs for only about 20 years now, but never bred more than 3 in one year, and it is hard trying to find the right homes for all,! the market is such that if we stopped breeding now for 5 years there would still be far too many horses. there is a staircase and the new foals are at the top, and at the bottom is the meat man waiting for a new crop of unwanted's. you may well have homes waiting for your foals but your actions by breeding more will have far reaching conciquences. |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 09:45:16 AM
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I have bred 6 foals over 4 years.
Two I found super loving homes for...one with her dam who is loaned to the same home and the other to a super lady who I delivered him to this week.
Like Pashon...both were sold with a buy back clause so in a sense they do have a home for life with me.
Two of my colts from this year will be cut and found loving homes.
One I am keeping as a future riding horse.
What I find funny is that I mentioned on here last week I wasnt covering any of my mares this year and since have had 6 emails/calls asking to lease one in particular to breed from (Im enjoying riding her FAR too much to lease her)!!
That kind of defeats the object hey haha!? |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 1:28:41 PM
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I think I've said this before on another thread....
It's only the folk who HAVE a conscience that end up with it being p-r-i-c-ked, Those that breed indescrimanently (?spelling !) will go on regardless of anyone's opinion
Also meant to say YES loads of gorgeous foalies this year
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Edited by - georgiauk on 13 Jun 2008 1:29:58 PM |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 1:29:01 PM
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breeding a foal, really is the most amazing exp. ever. i love watching them grown up, develope their personalties, teaching them stuff, and the fact that they enjoy being with me and learning. I just can not wait to start riding all my babies.
I don't think theres anything wrong with breeding to sell, so long as if they don't sell, people are able to keep them or don't get desperate and are able to afford them.
I once bought a filly off old breeders, they had a few foals for sale, this arab filly was 10 months old? she looked like a welsh sec a, she was undernorished, never had any handling, feet were terrible, kept in an absolute pig stye.
They had bred these foals to sell, and said them selves they had problems being able to afford them. I wish i could of bought them all.
I am glad people sell their foals/horses, otherwise i would never of had my lot, they are all such good, kind girls.
My mate, she started off with 3 mares, now has 16 ponies, has done extreemly well showing them over the years, she had an offer of £6000, turned it down, she couldn't part with her babies. |
pagey |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 8:14:51 PM
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I can afford to keep all my horses. But I breed for my own pleasure and for the pleasure of their respective new owners. My stallions are not available to public stud, so there is no indiscriminate breeding in my yard. 99% of my colts are gelded before weaning. 5 years of non breeding will not make the market happier. Some people WANT youngsters to show or bring on themselves.
As I appear to be responsible for the glut of horses on the market I shall now leave and get back to breeding lol!!
(So where did I leave the 14hh arab x appy x cob x donkey that I was going to breed to that 2 yr old mongrel colt I got from the market I have kicking around?) |
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 9:40:20 PM
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Pashon no one would EVER describe you as an indicriminate breeder. I am sure you like the majority of us are TRYING to help and educate people to be RESPONSIBLE breeders
Hey as many have said before we can only help and educate those who want to listen and be educated. There are those who seem to live in "ivory towers" who don't realise the errors of their ways.
I'm like you, I can afford to keep my foals until the right home comes along - no matter how long it takes - and then if it doesn't work out, bring them back to the fold
Hopefully Arabian lovers will realise where to go for their "once in a lifetime horse" and know that they get backup and support.
So leave the appy/donk where they are happy |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 07:53:10 AM
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It's a double edged sword breeding foals. For someone like me who only has three broodmares and one of those is a 'dot and carry one'(breeds when she feels like it), we really want to see what our young man can produce, so we offer him at stud.
I do not have a huge farm but can always have what I breed 'back'. If things go wrong for any new owner and they do and can go wrong for anyone, like so many on here we are the safety net for the babies we produce.
I class Jude as one of the bigger studs and I think she acts totally responsibly. I think things go wrong when you start offering your stallion at stud. Just my opinion here. I do offer mine for the reasons stated above, but now we are slowing down ourselves, so will his visiting mares!!
We are no fools and know how fickle the choice for a stallion is. Todays man is tomorrows forgotten hero. We have been incredibly lucky and had some outstanding mares to him already, I thank the owners for chancing a new boy too.
Our chap will ultimately be produced under saddle so AI will be on offer, but as I have said before on here it is not an option many seem to want, especially the frozen stuff.
The down side of not breeding many foals is that our society has a reduced income, this effects everything that happens and what can we do to offset this? breed less foals or breed more foals? do we all pay a bit more to have them registered?
It is already becoming an expensive hobby, so maybe this will dictate the outcome with our pure breds. I do however feel that one way forwards is with our non arab breeding! The market for large sportshorse bred horses crossed with an arab is huge, these guys have the money and the horsesense. Worth thinking about. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 08:45:56 AM
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Just remember what is already a fact, continue breeding large numbers and the market will dictate to you how much you will be reading about unwanted horses. in days gone by you couldnt even buy a breeding arabian horse, they were only for kings and high ranking officials, now anything with a pulse ( not my words but a high ranking official) can own one. there are pure bred arabs on gypsy camps tethered by chains , ( also told to me) I have recently bought a puppy that cost more than an arab! when will we wake up and smell the coffee! when its all too late I fear! |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 10:19:58 AM
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I'm curious having read this thread and recalling others of the same nature exactly WHO is it breeding multiple foals year after year Admittedly I raised an eyebrow when these filly's were advertised and can remember a similar situation occurring in the past but surely it's not just these that are causing a stir.
On a lighter note....I am a high ranking official at my yard I AM the hand that feeds which makes me very important
Right, I'm off to look for a Dachs bitch 
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Edited by - georgiauk on 14 Jun 2008 10:23:01 AM |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 10:46:01 AM
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I really admire the breeders like Sue, Lynda and Jude who always leave the door open for a baby bred by them to come back if things don't work out for the purchaser. You can't say fairer than that really can you.
To churn them out in the current market and let's face it things have taken an absolute nosedive financially in the last 6 months is totally irresponsible in my opinion.
I think as on the other thread, when you see the same old people having the same old problems and having to sell all their stock at reduced prices it beggars belief .
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
Edited by - jaj on 14 Jun 2008 11:04:39 AM |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 12:57:04 PM
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We have a simple rule here which is never breed more than we can keep up until backed 4 year olds if neccessary, unless you can honestly say you can do this (not withstanding disasters, job loss, illness etc) don't do it.
This also means we can wait until the right person comes along and have been very lucky to have owners like Bridie and Lucytoo buy our horses.
We have no mares in foal for next year and will be thinking long and hard before we put any mares in foal next year, given the number of horses available, and the cost of production if you do it properly.
I just did a very quick rough calculation on the costs of caring for a foal from birth to Christmas of its first year, wormers £30.00, trimming £120.00, vaccinations £60.00, registration £80.00 (I think), hard feed for mare and foal at present ever rising prices £500.00, bedding £150, forage £100-200 depending on cut,
This comes out at a scary £1000+, we own our land and stables so have no livery costs, we do use outside stallions so in our case need to add the stud fee,keep, transportation etc.
The old saying fools breed for wise men (and wommen) to buy comes to mind !!!
Mandy
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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 10:12:13 PM
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“I class Jude as one of the bigger studs and I think she acts totally responsibly. I think things go wrong when you start offering your stallion at stud. Just my opinion here. I do offer mine for the reasons stated above, but now we are slowing down ourselves, so will his visiting mares!!”
Oh Sue you do make me smile – I have been associated with the Arab horse for far too many years, well over 35yrs methinks. In that time I have probably only bred approx. 25/30 foals (max) – so on average less than 1 per year!!! There are those that are breeding that amount per year and without any mares. So the only way I can be classed as a “bigger stud” is that my broodmare band stay with me. I don’t buy and sell mares, fillies etc – when I breed a mare or buy one they stay in my band (usually until they pass on). I do not breed my mares every year - in fact this year we have one foal - last year two - and next year (with luck) three
"we really want to see what our young man can produce, so we offer him at stud."
The only difference I can see is that my boy HAD to PROVE himself before he was allowed to cover mares. Now only being offered to VERY LIMITED mares because the ones on the ground show the qualities he can pass on.
So many stallions these days have a few wins in hand and then cover mares in the hope they can produce what they achieve in the in hand ring. Everyone should read what Howie Kale says about the Arabian horse in the recent mag – shame we all can’t think the same way.
“The down side of not breeding many foals is that our society has a reduced income, this effects everything that happens and what can we do to offset this? breed less foals or breed more foals? do we all pay a bit more to have them registered?”
I am shocked that you think this is perhaps a reason for everyone to breed more foals “to give our breed Society more income” Maybe our Society needs to spend more money EDUCATING its membership on the responsibilities of horse ownership/breeding/ etc etc – thus fulfilling its charitable status.
“It is already becoming an expensive hobby, so maybe this will dictate the outcome with our pure breds. I do however feel that one way forwards is with our non arab breeding! The market for large sportshorse bred horses crossed with an arab is huge, these guys have the money and the horsesense. Worth thinking about.”
Whilst I fully endorse this – I feel we do have to offer Arab Stallions/Mares who offer superb conformation/structure and movement combined with a well earned reputation in the ridden/performance areas and not just the “in hand” arena.
Mandy – your sums are the same as mine. But just try explaining this to potential purchasers.
Yes I am very lucky, I can manage to keep my horses UNTIL the right home comes along. What we have to be thankful for is that there are far more wonderful homes than the other BUT as breeders we have to be prepared to help and take back when times are bad. I hope and pray my gang, who leave me, can always come back when times change.
That’s why we “occasionally” breed this wonderful horse.
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 10:24:52 AM
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Jude, You must know me by now. In my famous way of not explaining things very well, I do feel that you are a big stud, you have many mares and a large farm, that makes you a large stud? ! you have two yards etc etc. That is very different from having only 4 fields amounting to 10 acres and a barn with 8 stables in it.
No one mentioned you breed lots and lots of foals. Why get so worried?
Yes our society does rely on the income from the foals we all breed, If it is reduced, how will they pay for anything to be done?? where does the money come from??
I have never been very good at maths but I just can't see how they can manage without our income.
In no way do I advocate we all start breeding lots and lots of foals, but what I am doing is offering a way to some stallion owners that perhaps look at a different market where our stallion are standing at stud. To advertise the Pure bred being available to all other breeds is IMO a good idea.
Your ideals about proving your stallion under saddle are to be admired, sadly I know I don't have the time left to do this. I will try my very best to prove my chap under saddle after we have collected some more semen from him. But in the meantime he will be available to those that wish to breed whatever they want.
He is still the same horse whether he is ridden successfully or not.
Dear old Golden Cavalier, who they are talikng about on another thread, sire of the famous and most favorite of mine, Imad, was bought by us as an 18 year old stallion from Tina Cooke. Cavalier had never been backed, never had a soul on his back, yet he has sired some of the most amazing horses that today are ridden to the highest level, all this as an unproven man!
I backed him and rode him around our lanes here in Devon. At 18yrs old he proved an interesting ride but very comfy one too.
An awful lot of the old Crabbet stallions in the UK were never ridden, they just didn't ride them, end of. They were breeding stallions, maybe used to potter around the farms. But because they were incredibly good solid individuals they went on to produce the exceptional ridden arabs we see today, in this country, Russia, Poland and the USA.
I feel it is such a personal thing what you do with your stallion. Some can't be ridden because of an injury, does this make them a no no for breeding from?
I am sure I understand why you feel like you do, but we all are so very different, my feeling is there is room enough for us all.
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 11:14:44 AM
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whilst I also advocate that a stallion prove he CAN DO in all aspects, my boy also has never done anything under saddle, but that doesn't mean he is not a good sire he has proved he is a good sire over and over again he has many young sons and daughters who have proved themselves and thus him, in all aspects. I suppose if I am honest I would like him to be doing things other than standing in a field ( although he wouldnt agree with me) but he and I are too long in the tooth to start now, he did go to Claire fitch and she did wonders with him, but I think he has too much testerone to concentrate on work while there are girls watching him. I also feel a hack out could be an interesting ride if we were to meet girls |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 12:21:46 PM
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| I feel i had to reply as it is sad to see such an attack on breeders, mostly of whom put years of effort and thought into breeding, finding the right bloodlines and trying hard to place youngsters in the right homes. True responsible breeders want the best possible future for their foals, why else would we put ourselves through all the worry, expense, and heartache of losing foals. I am sure there are more responsible breeders out there than irresponsible ones. I breed only a few foals and in the past have bought two back to re-home when the owners fell on difficult times (this can happen to anyone!) i also know where every foal i ever bred is. and the owners regularly give me updates. I am not knocking anyone just asking you all to consider this- when you next win in the showing ring, over jumps, or in dressage, please remember where it all started! with the BREEDER!!! |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 12:32:53 PM
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vjc, I would say that pretty much every person that has replied on this particular thread would be regarded as very responsible, careful breeders. Sadly there are others out there who are not as caring as to where their foals end up and just move from one fashion to the next with no regard for their eventual homes or outcome.
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 12:44:04 PM
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| Yes Jen i know what you mean, maybe breeders should always try to produce a foal that has the looks and limbs to do every discipline, not just look pretty! so many have an in hand show career and nothing else which is such a shame! a horse, no matter what breed or colour it is, can give years of enjoyment if given the opportunity and i have got to say although i love to hear of my horses success`s no ribbons can compare to a longstanding loving home! |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 1:28:52 PM
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Verena, one only has to look at your signature strip to see the fabulous horses that you have bred and that have obviously gone on to do so much! It's brilliant that you know where every foal is that you have ever bred, they are very lucky horses to have had such a good start in life !
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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