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KHA`LILAH
Bronze Member
France
104 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 10:34:11 AM
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(Small Private or Big Studs) in which order do you choose?
a) Winnings
b) Conformation
c) Lineage
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Libby Frost
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4711 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 11:53:04 AM
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| God forbid people choose winnings!!! lol SHOULD BE CONFIRMATION and bloodlines, in my books both together,actually, bloodlines first,then confirmation. |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 12:49:21 PM
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Comformation should go without saying, bloodlines equally obviously need close consideration but what about... TEMPERAMENT ?, movement ?, proven ridden performance ability????
Lisa  |
lisa |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 1:39:59 PM
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| I agree that conformation and temperament are very important, but if Type is not there then where is the Arabian, so for me I would definitely look for Type and then bloodlines, conformation and temperament, but winnings would be last on my list as there are lots, I am sure, of stallions hidden away who do not frequent the show ring. |
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Edited by - Cate on 29 Mar 2008 1:44:13 PM |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 2:50:25 PM
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For me it would have to be conformation first, followed by movement,type, temperament and bloodlines.
Winnings would not feature at all ! I kind of arab I like is not influenced by judges opinions or fashion !  |
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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2008 : 5:58:39 PM
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For me Conformation, Type and temprement and then blood lines, as i say
again i have seen some terrible horses with great blood lines so
that would be way down my list.The winning is unimportant to me in the
respect that its on what we think of our horses not a judge im afraid as
as we know they make some strange choices to  I used to show and did
well but i just did it for the experience, my gelding did great but to me
the trophy and the rosette didnt really mean that much at the end of the
day  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say and as we know
ladies we all think our horses are beautiful  |
   
Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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KHA`LILAH
Bronze Member
France
104 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 08:18:51 AM
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| Thank you so much for helping me with this! |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 09:19:58 AM
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| I agree with everyone here, although if a horse has won many championships then he has been scrutinized very closely by many experts on conformation and type, so I wouldnt discount it if I were you |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 10:13:17 AM
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I think that the original qualities of the Arabian horse should have been preserved the sad thing is that the original arabian with all the qualities of the arabian that was ridden in the desert and in battle hundreds of years ago would not even get a look in the show ring today and yet the question is asked so many times, where are all the qualities of the original arabian gone??? I for one would allow free covering to any Babson or Asil bred mare to my stallion to preserve the qualities that just are not there in the arabian of today |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 10:32:34 AM
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For me it is looks, conformation, temperament, bloodlines and type. All are equally important. I am not bothered about showring wins and don't show my horses. I agree with Lynda that if a horses has won extensively in the showring (excluding the USA where the judging can be srange, to say the least!) under many different judges, especially the likes of Liz Salmon, then it is going to be a good horse.
I do go for bloodlines. It is possible to get a poor specimen from very good bloodlines but if the breeding is there it is much more likely that you will get something nice. We have all seen two very average horses produce a stunner but that is not the norm and those average horses may very well have really good bloodlines.
Also, some horses are good producers, some are not.
I don't use a stallion because it in vogue, I use one that I think will suit my mare and is from a line which I hope produces well if it is a young stallion or one who is a good producer if it is an older stallion. If the older stallion has not been used then I would still use him if he had all I wanted.
Barbara |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 11:23:23 AM
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Gerri, I think if you look at the old paintings of desert bred horses they are like the horses of today,although I think if you look at the old Crabbet horses , it was often the photoghaphy that was sadly lacking I think my horse's resemble the early desert bred horse( but then I would say that wouldnt I
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 2:54:52 PM
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| I think that if you look at the length of the cannon and shannon bones on the paintings you will see exactly what I am saying and having had the honor of visiting studs in the Middle East by personal invitation that are closed to the public I was luvky enough to make the observations that stand me in good stead of what the original Arabian qualities that have been lost today |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 3:07:47 PM
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I agree with you on some things but I dont agree they have been lost, I too have been to many Middle east studs by private invitation, Nasr Marei's Albadia stud , being just one, His horses are way in the lead when it comes to desert bred type conformation, looks, ,movement and structure, but that has taken some 80 years with three generations of one family breeding and knowing what to breed to what, something us mere mortals will never achieve in one lifetime what is good for the future of the breed is that Dr marei is an international Judge and can spot good horses a mile away |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 4:48:27 PM
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| wELL i HAVE TO SAY THAT i CAN ONLY GO ON WHAT i SAW AT TWO OF THE MAJOR ROYALS IN SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER STUDS THAT I WAS INVITED TO ONLY BECAUSE I WAS COMMISIONED TO DESIGN AND TRAIN THERE, AND THE STALLIONS WERE VERY MUCH THE SAME AS MY BOY , ONE BEING ALMOST HIS IDENTICAL TWIN WHICH WAS QUITE EERY, AND ALSO READING A BACK ISSUE OF AHS MAGAZINE THATS ASKED THE SAME QUESTION,"WHERE HAVE ALL THE ORIGINAL QUALITIES OF THE ARABIAN GONE?" I AM IN NO WAY A LEADING AUTHORITY ON THE ARABIAN AND DO NOT PROFESS TO BE EITHER BUT IF WE DO NOT WORK HARD TO KEEP A FEW OF THE ORIGINAL DESERT ARABIANS WE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO BREED BACK TO WHEN WE HAVE GONE TOO FAR WITH FASHION AND THEY WILL BE LOST FOREVER, HENCE MY OFFER FOR FREE COVERING FOR ANY ASIL OR BABSON MARES, I MADE A PROMISE TO WALTER SCHMINSSKI YEARS AGO AND IF I CAN KEEP THAT PROMISE THEN I WILL, SORRY IF I SPELT THE NAME WRONG BUT I NEVER BREAK MY WORD UNLESS ITS BEYOND MY CAPABILITIES. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 5:22:05 PM
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I think we all have our own opinions on what constitutes true Arabian type, and each to his own,would you not agree? your boy is lovely but then so is mine I hope you have lots of replys to your generous offer |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 6:30:15 PM
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the shortness of length on legs from knee to fetlock and hock to fetlock, which is the main difference that I noticed on the old desert arabians and the modern day arabians.
I am sorry I was not making any reference to your boy, and I a apologise if you think I was, he is lovely, well gorgeous actually, no I was trying to say that I just so badly wanted to breed the old pure blood so that at least I had it for people to go back too, I adore my mare, who is English/Polish and who I would not part with for anything in the whole world, but after speaking with Walter for many hours and listening to his wealth of knowlege I suddenly realised that this was the road I wanted to take, I am not knocking other arabians just feel we desperately need the old qualities that at some point we will need to reinfuse too, still not sure if I am making sense but I know what I mean, I only got into arabs twenty years ago and quite by accident before that used to compete large horses and produce for other people. I also fell in love with Patricia Lydnseys horses and thought they were to die for, but its the old desert arabian that has really stolen my heart. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 6:59:20 PM
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| I never once thought you were making reference to my boy, it is said the Arabian should have a long forearm and a short cannon bone, ( I have to admit to never having heard of the term shannon bone either) are you saying the modern horses dont have this? I am only trying to ascertain your thoughts on this |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 7:09:50 PM
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| shannon bone - i'm laughing out loud - sorry too much vodka and tomatoe juice obviously. I'll probably have to apologise for this post tomorrow. |
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M Robson
Silver Member
Wales
398 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 7:16:38 PM
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| Yes there is such a thing as a Shannon Bone and I can see what you are saying Geri. |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 8:43:02 PM
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| Carry on laughing I've had better people than you laugh in the past and I always end up laughing last at my age I have had a lifetime of proving my worth, so keep drinking the vodka |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 9:07:37 PM
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'According to the sayings of our forebears we should judge a horse more by his character than his appearance.' Adb el Kader
I just wrote an extremely long post which you will be relieved to know that I accidentally deleted, so will keep this brief
wrt ...' the old desert type '
This was a Bedouin War Horse, even the collections of the Egyptian Pashas were that ... 'collections' of a connoiseur, probably the most beautiful horses available in the desert at that time and very valuable blood BUT when people wax lyrical about desert type, it might be worth considering what qualities were important to a Bedouin living in the desert anytime in the last few thousand years...
Hardiness ...a horse not able to thrive on short rations would weaken and very likely be left to die if the tribe had to undergo a forced march.
Sure footed and handy.. if a horse could not spin on her hocks and fly off immediately on command from her rider the result may be her rider being run through with a lance or sword. A horse which stumbled on rough ground could also be a fatal liability, Lady Blunt recounts one occasion where a Sheikh's mare stumbled in battle, the Sheikh was killed, the tribe's men were so angry with the mare that they hamstrung her and left her to die....that is called a rigorous selection policy !
(obvioulsy brutal and cruel but shows the importance of FUNCTION of these horses). The Bedouin rode without stirrups and fought hand to hand from their horses.. a smooth canter was essential.
Enduring... a horse must be untiring to be ridden or led from a camel long distances before being put to battle, and then should things go badly have enough in reserve to flee for her, and her riders life.
Loyal, high couraged, intelligent ......the riders life would again quite simply depend on his mare having these qualities.
Gentle... these horses lived in the encampments, with children at their feet a vicious or dangerous animal would not last long, in fact for me the combination of courage and fire with extreme gentleness is one of the most precious of the Arabs virtues.
These virtues , for me exemplify the 'type' of a true desert Arab and for what its worth I believe that many many horses of true type are alive and well in 2008.
Yes I know that they are also the most beautiful horses that the world will ever see and of course I love that about them too, and yes they should have short cannons, long cannons are awful, weak, unpleasant to look at and I agree they are seen too often but before we get too depressed about loss of 'desert type' lets just remember that type is not just skin deep and in my opinion cannot be FULLY assessed unless you have ridden the horse!
I know we don't have Ghazus any more ( though it would be fun!) but I still think the moral virtues of the breed should be selected for.
During our 10,000km ride to Jordan crossing the Alps,Carpathians, Balkans and the deserts of Syria and Jordan enduring temperatures of -35 to +35C, our little Arabs proved to us that they had inherited 'true Arab type' in full measure we simply couldn't have had more loyal, tough, generous companions or more comfortable untiring and downright joyful horses to ride, or for that matter (imho) more beautiful!!.
Today I took my 4yo on his first outing a 13 mile beach pleasure ride, he floated all the way round with his tail carried like a flag, at the end a lady asked me ' where can you buy Arabs like that?'. I am delighted with him, but he really is just typical of a half decent Arab ... we all know that there are thousands like him, and if we breed for the TRUE Arab qualities there always will be.
Sorry about rant
Cheers
Lisa
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lisa |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
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firstlady
Gold Member
Wales
767 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 9:29:25 PM
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What more can you say
well said and so well put Lisa (as always)
and excellent that your young man enjoyed himself ..... somehow managed to miss you today,(but hardly suprising as Ria aka pocket rocket was on a serious mission )
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2008 : 10:33:09 PM
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I am still in full agreement with what has been said,are they so different though?? they all have the same ancestor's the horses of the desert whose line is unbroken as pure bred Arabians ( the painting of the Arabian horse seen here was painted in the 17th centuary I believe the artist may have been a little short sighted when it came to the legs 
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 30 Mar 2008 10:38:52 PM |
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