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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 4:20:43 PM
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Hi, can anyone tell me a what percentage Crabbet Sollum was (Sudeir x Nasam), I tried to work it out & came to different figures for his Dam's side than that marked on allbreed site (I am new to this!!)! I am assuming he was all Old English bred? Also does anyone have any pics of him, or know his size? Thanks, Claire.
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 6:03:37 PM
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One of my friends owns a son of Sollum a stallion - & I think she says hes 100% Carabbet - but don't take my word for it! |
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Barabia
Gold Member
Sweden
1059 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 9:33:43 PM
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Hi Claire,
I've filled in Shihab's percentage (so it's correct) and also corrected Gayza.. then comes some problems!!
I need to read deep in my books again and also talk to the Crabbet-experts regarding Jellaby's lines. Datasource (AHR) has not the correct pedigree for Nasr's damline.. nor has Allbreed, so I'm very confused??
According to Ivari (Australia)..is Nasr 1918 (Rabdan/Bint Yemama) 100% Crabbet! They have listed Bint Yemama bay (Feysul/Yemama) as the dam to Nasr and 100% Crabbet.. but there is no Bint Yemama (bay) in Datacourse??
This is a mess!!!
Hope this will be sorted out soon.
Bia |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 2:27:13 PM
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| Hi Bia, thanks for having a look at this one for me, I got very, very confused! I also got 81.25 for Shihab (amazingly!!). Could you help me out with Gayza, as I got 98.4375, as I thought Imam was not Crabbet & I consulted the booklet from the Crabbet association to help you work out percentages & couldn't see Hauran mentioned as being bred by Crabbet? Also what is Ivari? I'm looking forward to your reply via Jellaby, (I wouldn't know where to start looking!!!)Thanks, Claire. |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 4:55:30 PM
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| his son is my fave-i'm waiting for him-beautiful foxbury lines on the dam side. |
pagey |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 8:09:19 PM
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| Yes - I thought Val said he was 100% crabbet??? |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 4:44:08 PM
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| Very few snaps of Sollum about, there was an artilce about him & his owner in one of the old AHS news... |
Sue
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Annette
Platinum Member
England
1551 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 11:11:03 PM
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Hi Claire
Sollum belonged to a breeder by the name of Will Davies from Llandeilo area. I have not seen Will for many years now but if he is still around I am sure he would love to tell you all about Sollum and is sure to have photos of him.
Can email you the last address I had for him if you want
Annette |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 3:00:50 PM
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Have you ever been up there Judith? Oh to see those boys out together is an exp i will never forget!
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pagey |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 3:10:43 PM
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| Nikki - I've never been to Vals - but I saw her recently with her stand at the Cob Sales here at Builth - she told me that she is moving.........nr Brechfa forest area. |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 4:37:09 PM
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Lovely people, i'll always remember that visit-go and see, will bring alot of joy to your heart!
Wheres that? |
pagey |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 2:21:05 PM
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Originally posted by BarabiaHi Claire, I've filled in Shihab's percentage (so it's correct) and also corrected Gayza.. then comes some problems!! I need to read deep in my books again and also talk to the Crabbet-experts regarding Jellaby's lines. Datasource (AHR) has not the correct pedigree for Nasr's damline.. nor has Allbreed, so I'm very confused?? According to Ivari (Australia)..is Nasr 1918 (Rabdan/Bint Yemama) 100% Crabbet! They have listed Bint Yemama bay (Feysul/Yemama) as the dam to Nasr and 100% Crabbet.. but there is no Bint Yemama (bay) in Datacourse?? This is a mess!!! Hope this will be sorted out soon. Bia
The horses you are looking at are the Thriplow Farms horses (& their ancestors). This was a small group originally imported in the 1930s from Gen Dickinson's Travellers' Rest Farm in the USA to Thriplow just outside Cambridge. Gayza in particular proved an influential mare, as being the tail-femal ancestress of many of Glynn Greenwood's (Souter House Stud) best stock.
Gen Dickinson's horses were a mix of French, Crabbet, Davenport and Egyptian lines. There is a piece about the Thriplow horses in THE JOURNAL OF THE ARAB HORSE SOCIETY 1935-1938 on p 133, together with a photo. They are also featured in 'Arabiana' I think and of course in the Travellers' Rest book.
If you want to trace British-bred horses, then an absolute ESSENTIAL is Dr Gazder's book ARAB HORSE FAMILIES OF GREAT BRITAIN...no serious British Arab lover should be without it! Copies turn up on ebay regularly, so watch out for it!
Keren |
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Barabia
Gold Member
Sweden
1059 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 9:58:26 PM
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| Originally posted by kastell
Hi Bia, thanks for having a look at this one for me, I got very, very confused! I also got 81.25 for Shihab (amazingly!!). Could you help me out with Gayza, as I got 98.4375, as I thought Imam was not Crabbet & I consulted the booklet from the Crabbet association to help you work out percentages & couldn't see Hauran mentioned as being bred by Crabbet? Also what is Ivari? I'm looking forward to your reply via Jellaby, (I wouldn't know where to start looking!!!)Thanks, Claire.
Hi again Claire, maybe you have seen that I've corrected the % for Gayza.. it's 98,4375. I did some research and found this article:
http://cmkarabians.com/articles/MBWhatsInAName.html
That makes it clear without any doubt.
I also saw that Ivahri has change the parents for Nasr 1918, but still have him listed as 100% Crabbet. There is some faults in their listing, so you have to doublecheck to be sure, as with allbreed! Here's the link to Ivahri:
http://www.ivahri.com/ozcrabbetreference.htm
Hi Keren, thanks for all the info! I do have Dr. Gazder's book among others, couldn't be without them!
Bia |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 6:36:09 PM
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| Margaret Wilke's Sollum son, Wyere Lad, was one of our famous endurances horses, a Part Bred, he was first over the line two years running at the 100 mile Red Dragon and also broke the 50 mile speed record at Lincoln & finished the Marathon in 4th place, he began the 1988 season with a 100 mile ride at Golden Horseshoe, went on to win the FEI Goodwood 100 mile International Ride. At the end of his days he was buried at the bottom of Margarets drive, overlooking the brook he was names after. |
Sue
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Edited by - Rozy Rider on 02 Nov 2007 6:39:30 PM |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 09:45:11 AM
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Thanks Bia, thats really good info, I'm just a beginner at working out percentages, so any suggested websites, books etc is appreciated. So if we assume Nasr is 100%, what about HH Mohamed Alis Hamama? Couldn't work out anything for her (got completely lost!), does she contain any Crabbet?
Also the Sollum son, looks lovey & I beleive that the Romac stud has 2 mares by Sollum. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 4:42:53 PM
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| Originally posted by kastell
Thanks Bia, thats really good info, I'm just a beginner at working out percentages, so any suggested websites, books etc is appreciated. So if we assume Nasr is 100%, what about HH Mohamed Alis Hamama? Couldn't work out anything for her (got completely lost!), does she contain any Crabbet?
Also the Sollum son, looks lovey & I beleive that the Romac stud has 2 mares by Sollum.
Nasr and HH MA's Hamama are both straight Egyptian, and though they have ancestors in common with Crabbet horses, I don't believe they 'count' for Crabbet purposes.
Personally, I would be rather more excited about them as SEs in a pedigree of any horse *I* owned, as I am a long-time fan of the Old Egyptian lines: they produce performance, temperament and type by the bucket-load - my own breeding programme is based around Old English, Old Egytian and low-Nazeer new Egyptian lines.
Keren |
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Barabia
Gold Member
Sweden
1059 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 11:54:12 PM
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Hi, so sorry for my delay... but I've been reading & reading.. over & over, and finally found out that neither Nasr.. or HH M A Hamama has any Crabbet in them. There is some doubts written here and there, but nothing has been proofed (sp?) re.. who bred who, and who is the sire etc.. of some of the ancestors at Sheykh Obeyd!
So, UK consider them both as Old Egyptians (as Keren said), and Oz has their own definition (Nasr & Gayza 100%, HH M A Hamama 12,5%).. to name just them! Think.. how many horses 'over there' is 100% (as they say)??? If I would import one of them, I surely would check it up with Crabbet.org in UK first!!! After all.. Crabbet Stud WAS in UK.
I've now changed the % on allbreed for the third and last time.. Jellaby is 0% Crabbet.
Bia |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 12:47:58 PM
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| Thanks for that Bia, yes it does make you think about Australian 100% Crabbets! Very definately worth checking out with the Crabbet Organisation, to verify it's 100% status, if anyone wanted to import one! So buy your calculations does that mean that Sollum is 82.617185% Crabbet (For any interested parties!!!)? I knew when I started looking at his pedigree, working out the Crabbet %, wasn't for a beginner!! |
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Barabia
Gold Member
Sweden
1059 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 7:05:13 PM
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Yes Claire, that's the % for Sollum. I need to buy the book about the Egyptians and also one other if I can find them, don't remember their names right now though.
About Australia.. it might be so that Ivahri has the wrong percentages for many horses, but they don't do the certificates. Let's hope that people don't take Ivahri's figures to be 100% true!! It's a very good site, and you can get much help from their listed horses.. but do always double check the percentages with UK's calculating guidelines!
Bia |
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