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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 3:46:48 PM
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| That sounds a bit more promising with regard to the owner, but not good he's not eating hay. I'd be worried about that, myself, and would definitely be getting a different vet in to take a look at him. Hopefully the owner now has been made to realise she needs to do something else? |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 4:21:42 PM
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Karon I think that was what shocked my friend the most that when the owner said about the horse not eating even though he had access to hay the vet said it was just a little blip and he might have a virus (another set of blood tests required!), but she was over the moon with him weight wise.
When my friend had spoken to the owner yesterday the owner just kept repeating "but the vet is over the moon with him" and how pleased she was because she to had feared the vet might suggest having him PTS. At the time my friend had pointed out but what sort of quality of life has he got and we are both wondering wether the owner has given this some thought over night
He is in his early 20's and I know my beloved Tizzy did the same at 29 just walked in her stable one night and refused to eat or drink due to full blood tests only 2 week previous I knew there was nothing wrong with her she had just decided she had had enough and we had her pts with dignity the next day and I do think that possibly this horse is doing a similar thing |
    
..................................................................... Photo by David Evans |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 5:11:46 PM
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| I would hope no vet would be so callous as to keep a horse going for a vets bill, but I also know that no vet has ever 'told' me to have an animal PTS. The decision has always been mine. My Cushings laminitic, arab mare, mid twenties, could have carried on but with no quality of life and no grass I made the choice to have her PTS. But its not easy. |
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Karrera
Bronze Member
England
206 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 5:32:11 PM
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Get another vet like yesterday, sounds as though he is cashing in on the situation, DISGUSTING. Hope this turns out well for the horse but it doesn't sound very good at the moment.
Jackie |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 6:21:24 PM
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Alarm bells should be ringing with that vet if he isn't eating( though he sounds like such a useless vet it doesn't surprise me that they aren't )---it sounds to me like he might have hyper lipidaemia from being starved. |
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moldequine
Gold Member
Wales
858 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 6:40:23 PM
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| Thats never a good sign if the horse isnt eating, is the vet even aware of this or the owner. He was obviously eating well before the laminitis or he wouldnt have got laminitis but he should be eating hay that is put in front of him, especially if he doesnt have much hay a day. so he isnt being intentionally starved then if he has access to hay!! or he may have colic! |
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Jenni5
Gold Member
England
849 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 7:07:17 PM
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Rossi suffers from laminitis, or is prone to it anyway. Luckily this year he has been on, put a patch up, and turned him out at night, put 1 section of hay in his net during the day, and hes fine. I have no idea why you would starve the pr horse!
Jenni |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 8:04:23 PM
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Could you by any chance persuade the YO to suggest to the pony owner that so little forage going through the horse's gut will cause bowel problems, and maybe to suggest that if they soak a double haylage net of hay for several hours, the pony will be able to have at least roughage going through it, but little nourishment. (Even that sounds the saddest solution but at least the animal would have something to nibble on!). It really is cruel to keep a grass-fed animal on nothing, laminitis or not. What does the ILPH say?
Not all vets are experienced with horses - I know this because my neighbour is a vet nurse for a vet who's desperate to get into the profitable horse market but is a complete ignoramus! He just wants the cash, especially from people who are insured, and will cart them through any unnecessary procedure. Only yesterday she had a huge row with him for wanting to exray a horse with an abcess that's healing perfectly with the routine poultice treatment. |
Roseanne |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 11:09:47 PM
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Sorry if my posts have been a little confusing.
The situation is(bearing in mind I am not acutally on the yard) when the horse first came down with laminitis, the vet told the owner that the horse, a typical cob needed to lose weight. My friend the yo (who has limited horse experiance) was aware of the fact that it is normally over weight horses that suffer from this condition and although still questioned the small amounts of hay and feed that the horse was allowed, the owner pointed out that she was following the vets orders to the letter and this was the new thinking on how to deal with this condition.
up until the last couple of weeks the horse has been bright and alert and given the chance nibbled on anything that passed his door (i.e any hay being carried to the ajoining stables).
It was only when the vet remarked that the horse (that had lost quite a lot of weight by this time and was what my friend would call on the lean side)still needed to lose more weight that my friend became concerned.
It has only been in the last week that the horse has suddenly become very down and uninterested in food that my friend has become very concerned and has questioned the vets actions.
as the vet has been out weekly they are fully aware of the horses condition but keep telling the owner that all is going as expected and this is the only way to get the condition under control.
It is only in the last week that the horse is showing no interest in the small amount of hay that he is allowed to have according to the vet.
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..................................................................... Photo by David Evans |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 09:04:55 AM
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| Your posts weren't confusing at all---that is how I had read the situation--- which is why I am worried, now that he is not eating, that he may have hyper lipidaemia ( or possibly gastric ulcers) as a result of being starved. |
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Moosie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 6:04:26 PM
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I strongly feel that the horse should now be offered small succulent treats to tempt him to eat or he may well give up completely and die. Its possible that an increse in his pain level (due to pedal bone rotation or other laminitic changes /foot infection) are also contributing to the scenario. He can have a small amount of speedi beet and happy hoof - both are approved by the laminitis trust, the laminitis trust also advised me that alfa a oil is ok. He needs to be slightly on the lean side as theres then less weight on the feet but NOT thin, poor, and not eating. He MUST get his digestive system working properly again. She could also try probiotics to kick start the system.
Please anyone feel free to disagree but from what has been described this situation sounds dire and either the laminitis is getting horribly worse or the horse himself has given up all interest in survival and needs urgent help. |
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Mad arab rider
Silver Member
England
483 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 10:10:50 PM
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| I agree with moosie, he needs to be tempted to eat something, although it does sound as if he's given up. I'd get a second specialist horse vet in pronto. Is the vet a horse vet or a jack of all trades. At our yard we use 3 different vets, specialist horse vets, another one for the farm aniamls and a different one for the small aniamls. I wish this poor poor horse well. |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 5:51:46 PM
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Well I am pleased to tell you all, that after strong words from my friend regarding the quality of life of the horse, the owner agreed to try the suggestions that have been made to her as the present situation could not go on.
On friday a small well grazed area was fenced off adjacent to the starvation paddock and he was turned out for half an hour with a grazing muzzle on (instead of the ten minutes without muzzel the vet had suggested). Here he was able to say hi to his friends in the field and have contact over the post and rail fence with the two fatties in the paddock.
This was repeated on the afternoon and when he came in he was offered a small feed of speedibeet and happyhoof which he eat 
Same routine yesterday and even started nibbling hay.
Today one of the girls said he even trotted up his little paddock to say hi to her horse as she walked past to the gate.
Will keep you informed but it is looking a lot more positive than it did on Thurdsay  |
..................................................................... Photo by David Evans |
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Moosie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 6:10:03 PM
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| hi anne, thats great but I am now concerned about him moving around so much - depends of course on what stage the laminitis is at and how severe it is (or has been). Usually the current thought is that the horse shouldnt be allowed to move around a lot (and certainly not trot) until it has been sound for a month in the box, or small corral as if the pedal bone has rotated the laminae will have torn and these need time to heal to avoid disasterous consequences such as further rotation and possible penetration of the sole. Of course each case is totally different and Im only going by my own experience. But great that he is eating, hopefully he will now start to fight the disease. Presumably the vet has done x rays recently? |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 6:26:08 PM
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Moosie he could only do a couple of strides of trot as the fenced of area is very small. The vet had said it was ok to turn him out.
To be honest this horse is in his early 20's has ring bone in three legs and I think the owner has now accepted that she might have to accept that if any further problems arise it would be kinder to have him PTS than keep him stabled all the time.
He is a very social horse used to living out 24/7 all summer and out all day in the winter and had I think decided that if his life was in a 12 x12 stable he had had enough.
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Edited by - anne on 19 Aug 2007 6:28:18 PM |
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Moosie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 6:58:10 PM
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| yes, now you have described it I think shes probably right. What I forgot to say, too, was that the horse can also have access to dried nettles - safe for laminitics, very low in calories and apparently have a "purifying" effect on the blood. He will think hes getting lots more green stuff to eat than he actually is which should also help to cheer him up. Your friend will need to pull up lots and hang them up or lay them out in the sun(if we ever get any!). Alternatively you can also pour boiling water over them - you are just trying to get rid of the sting. He can have them pretty well ad lib. Really hope he gets a happy time for however long he has left - hopefully a few years yet. |
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Smiler
Gold Member
England
1217 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 8:28:02 PM
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Although he is 20 that is not old old !!! what i mean is he could have another 10 years of good quality life yet if this is controlled properly, so i do hope she does not think of putting him to sleep , he does not have to spend all his time in the stable in fact he could be out 24/7 again if the grazing is poor enough ( but not poached ) i know what i mean  hard to explain  and with his friends next to him will give him the will to carry on which is what has already happened by the sounds of it , sounds like he had given up and who can blame him being stuck in all the time and with no hay !!!! please keep us informed but i think she might have realised now that it was not fair on him , has he had x-rays to see how bad his feet are ??? and please get her to change her vet like all others have said he sounds like an idiot !!!!!!!! |
   
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 12:08:08 AM
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Smiler I can assure you that the owner will do anything to kept this horse alive and well. Which is why in her defence she did exactually what the vet told her to do which lead to this sorry state.
I hope that she has seen over the last couple of days what really matters to him.
This is not a case of someone being bored or sick of an elderly horse indeed the opposite and as I and others that know the horse hope the situation can be managed in a way that suits him. I hope that the owner now realises that like many of us that have had to make that dreadful decision it is kinder to let them go then to kept them with us for our own selfish reasons.
I hope you do not think I am hard as I can honestly say I am tears as I type this and remember the day I had to make the same decision but I realise now how right I was to carry out my beloved Tizzys wish to leave me with dignity and without her suffering
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Smiler
Gold Member
England
1217 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 12:24:50 AM
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I DO not think you are hard , i have had to let some go in fact one very receently !!! that i will never forget, it is very hard to write this aso0 so excuse me if i come a cros wrong , please up date as soon a you know
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