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Zoe Tyzack
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
4047 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 9:11:44 PM
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Hi
With the UK Gold and E Event now cancelled,how can it be that we loose another two shows that seem to be well supported
I was looking forward to doing both
Any ideas as to why
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Zoe.x |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 9:12:50 PM
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I'm also amazed that both of these shows have gone this year. They seemed so well supported last year? What a dreadful shame
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Donna Irons
Bronze Member
New Zealand
154 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 09:11:25 AM
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I'm not, compared to europe and the continent, this country for arabian showing is pathetic ! the seasons are so short and the shows are getting smaller. I am affraid its abroad or nothing now
Donna |
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Zoe Tyzack
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4047 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 09:18:25 AM
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Hi
Agree with you there Donna on this countrys show season being short and possibly getting shorter.
But its such a shame as there is so many people out there with good quality horses but are unable to show abroad due to the expence of it and simply not being able to afford to take their horses to show abroad. |
Zoe.x |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
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Donna Irons
Bronze Member
New Zealand
154 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 09:29:39 AM
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| I agree it is expensive to show abroad, but his country is being left behind !, I always thought we were up there with the best, but I tell you what I have seen some of the horses and shows in Australia and New Zealand and they blow us of the face of the earth now, everyone has got better except us , yes are horses are good but the shows are not !!! |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 09:42:32 AM
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surely its up to us as competitors to attend these shows,falling numbers are due to peolple not showing up!! the total cancellation of the AA & PBA inhand champs is a very sad but true example of this
i have never been abroad to shows to even view so i cant possibly comment , however i do think that organisers etc work hard to put on shows for us and we shouldnt betoo critical , its up to us to encourage owners to attend and bring in fresh competitors !
its all too easy to potter along and change nothing  but thats not how we should be complacent even! if we want to keep showing our horses ..
There are owners on here who have sponsored classes themselves just to keep them going - please attend the shows! and you have a idea - share it !! dont be shy to help promote it can work !!  |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 10:59:35 AM
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| If this show had good entries, could the problem have been the cost of the hire of the venue. Windsor cant of been cheap. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 11:15:37 AM
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I agree with Sazzlepants, I think it is up to us the competitors to keep these shows going!
With respect Donna our showing season is March 'til September surely that is long enough for anyone particularly the poor horses! We have a show 'season' 'cause the weather is not good all year round. But for those of us that compete under saddle there is plenty we can do inbetween October and February. Perhaps more of us should use our fabulous Arabians as 'doing' horses rather than 'trinkets'. This is just IMO, no offence meant.
I also do not have the funds to show abroad but I think it is up to us to make the UK show enjoyable. I certainly enjoy myself when I go.
I also think that it is our responsibility if the horses that are shown in this Country are 'sub standard', why should Australia have better horses when allot of our English horses have made 'foundation' stock for the Aussies
All of the above just my humble opinion - no offence meant to anyone. |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 11:29:39 AM
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Whilst I agree that the show scene in this country is not particularly healthy I would be interested to know what it is that some of you feel is so much better about the European shows. If people can tell us then show organisers will certainly look to emulate them especially if we feel it would increase our entry. Entires are down to exhibitors choices so if you want bigger shows then enter and the shows will be bigger and have more scope for improvement/more funds available to improve with.
I have been to foreign shows and in the main they have lacked atmosphere and not been well supported. It must be remembered that the Europeans have a wider pool of competitors as it is far easier to travel from say Germany to France then UK to anywhere in Europe.
The length of the show season is also partially governed by the waether - who wants to show in March or November outside and more importantly who has horses ready. The UK is unique in that we have a far higher percentage of owners for whom this is just a hobby, something they do for fun. In Europe there seem to be many more people for whom horses are at the very least a secondary business thus it is far more important for them to get their horses out and win. The UK also has the highest number of C shows, with qualification now only required for UKIAHS and the Title shows. IF we felt we would get enough support to break even we would happily organise another late or early show but sadly could not do this on a speculative basis.
The comments made about the quality of shows in the UK are one of the reason Show Organisers retire, it is a thankless task and rarely do we receive praise just criticism, often for things beyond our control. It wears you down in the end, especially as no-one ever seems to be able to quantify what it is that they want that is so much better elswhere.
If anyone wants to e mail me with their ideas for inprovement I'll take them on board and if practical use them. My e mail address is yvonne.marriott@firstcity.com
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 11:38:59 AM
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I thought Windsor was great last year, lots of high quality entries. Maybe the venue was expensive, let's hope somebody can tell us why it has been cancelled. Am I right in thinking it was cancelled at Keysoe the previous year but the year before that it was held there with good entries and well attended? I love the British shows and would absolutely hate for us all to have to go to Europe every time
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 12:18:35 PM
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The Points system has it advantages and disadvantages but from an organisers point of view we simply cannot afford the number of judges required for this. I have discussed this at length wih a number of people including judges as I would like to see even the English system offering feedback to the exhibitors but without a drastic change in attitude it is unlikely that it can be brought in.
People already complain about the costs of entering shows but it would go up in line with the European shows and I am pretty sure that most people would not or could not afford to enter at these pricing levels.
Another thing to bear in mind is that many of the European shows have substantial financial backing which Britsh exhibitors simply cannot or will not offer. I am talking hundreds if not thousands of pounds.
Yvonne |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 12:49:20 PM
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Michelle..........points system? Many shows that already use the points system are looking at our comparative system as a better option.
Both should give you the same result. But as Yvonne rightly say's the costs involved in have three or five judges is so very high.
Also, there has been a comment made on here before as to how long a horse has to stand to be posed for the points system as against the comparative system. Not a lot in it, but I feel the comparative way to be slightly easier on the horse. JMO.
My only complaint of the points system is that it does not allow the judge to change his or her mind once the first horse has entered the ring to be marked. Once those marks are done there is no changing them or going back.
To watch a good judge pull out a selection of horses from 20 or so under the comparative system is a joy to see. One that is envied around the world.
We get too hung up on so called politics, why should a judge have to explain their decision? You can always ask a judge after the class. If you enter a class you enter because you know who the judge is and have put faith under their judgment, if you didn't you wouldn't be there. Because you don't win, doesn't mean some jiggery pokery has gone on, it's because on the day someone else's horse was better than yours.......simple.
Best policy is to ignore what others say about why your horse came where it came, ask the judge, and then move on to the next show. Have faith in that judge, they got there for a reason.
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lovehorses
Silver Member
England
390 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 1:06:03 PM
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Online schedules and entries please! I know I'm being lazy but I don't have a cheque book so needing to go to the post office for postal orders is a pain as it's always so busy.
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Trudi x
trudi.pelham@googlemail.com
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 1:54:14 PM
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thats a good point trudi!
with many of us shopping online, internet purchases and such like are the way forward it seems for many..
you can download schedules from many sites now..perhaps 'paying online' would encourage people to enter earlier? and also email reminders can be sent out rather than waiting for the date to pass using the post & cost of printing schedules etc can be bought down..it may help do you think spur people to enter which is ul;timately what the shows need how much is spent on administration nowadays? |
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Zoe Tyzack
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4047 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:08:30 PM
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Hi
Think that is a good idea,other small er shows do it so why cant ours
surely this has to be at least one cost cutting way |
Zoe.x |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:12:58 PM
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Sorry Sue but thats just my opinion on what makes European shows better.
The problem with comparitive system is that whoever is judging has a 'type' and will be drawn to that type, don't deny it, it doesn't have to do with politics. The end result is you could have a chestnut with a load of white on it and every show you want to enter has a judge that is known to not like chestnut with a load of white - it happens.
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IIsis Arabians
www.iisisarabians.com www.ali-abbas.co.uk
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:20:32 PM
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We are currently investigating on line payments but so far this is proving to be a non starter as there is a charge for the transactions, sometimes up to 3%.
I am sure it will come eventually.
Sue I agree that the judge should not have to justify their placings but for the less knowledgeable it would be useful to have a short critique. Check out Our Dogs and Our Cats for example. I agree that the judge can be approached but certainly I would still feel rather shy of doing this and presumably the exhibitor would have to wait until the end of the show day to do so.
I am ambivalent about the points system because not only is it harder on the horse and does not allow a judge to rectify their placing should they notice something untoward after the individual show but also pulls the horse apart and I am sure that many of us have seen horses that in bits do not add up but that as a whole have that certain something that makes them stand out as a Arab through and through. Maybe thats what is meant by "type". It would be an interesting experiment to judge the ame group on horses on both systems and see if the results were the same or similar.
Any more suggestions for improving shows much appreciated. |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:22:28 PM
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Re admin costs these are minimal as most of us involved do not make charges for our efforts.
Yvonne |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:28:39 PM
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cinders, do you think a generic email reminder to previous competitors help to 'remind' people to enter would work?
is it possible to promote shows through the many chat sites, discussion forums, there are around today most importantly AL!
To bring up level of interest & as someone else has pointed out the AHS website is ever so outdatedsorry dont mean to be rude but it deosnt help, especially if i was a new owner for example i might look at the AHS website to get info and it just doenst promote the fab shows that we have in the uk ....
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 2:29:22 PM
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It is so easy to be "brain washed" with shows and horses, this covers a lot of threads active now,If it is from abroad it must be better
be it shows or Horses what a crock, Go onto the Ecaho website and see how many Horses enter these "foreign shows" The words British National Champion is a proud title to have indeed winning a class or even having a rosette should make you proud,The German Nationals did not have enough Stallions to be able to have a National Champion (3 entered, Two trainers take the vast bulk of the entries,
One Judge can destroy a horse in the points system, We ahve been first on two Judges cards a few times but ended up as low as fourth
one Judge wiping us out, in one show one of ours had 94. someting with one Judge 93 from another and 84.something with another, result lost the class by a very small margin,The big difference you can hide in a crowd, but our system you stand alone,in my opinion a better system,
Maybe if we embrace the FUN of breeding and showing your own Home Bred
it would be a more rewarding hobby,
Show organisers need a Medal the size of a dinner plate for taking on such a difficult and thankless job,
Nick |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 3:12:17 PM
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Nick that is utter crap. I spend a lot of time visiting shows abroad and do have the intelligence to enable me to a) not be brainwashed and b) be able to decide what I like for myself no matter WHAT country it's in or comes from!
Now if I remember rightly, last years UK Gold show was run under a points system and it was very well supported, in fact better supported than i have ever known it. i am not saying that this was down to the points system, it was probably a mixture of that, the location and the time of year.
With all the support it had i don't know why it had to be dropped?
When the show first came along I did think to myself 'oh god not another c show' but twinned with the EE could have made it more desirable... instead it has struggled over the years, being dropped on several occasions.
I think one of the reasons is the cost. It does cost a lot to run a show and the more it costs the more you have to charge people, the more you charge people the more drop out, and so you have to charge more the next year and so on.
Personally, i think that there are far too many C shows in this country. I think we have around 14? What good to anyone is 14 C shows with most of them running at a loss and some with none or just 3 or 4 entries?? I would rather see fewer shows that have full classes.
Regional groups don't want to lose their C shows, but i think maybe hooking up with another group nearby and sharing the show could be an answer?
The B show at Merrist Wood was a fabulous show but thats another one that fails to run every year. I could see that show running again, maybe as a 1 day show, sharing a weekend with a regional group show, an international one day and the C show the next?
This is all JMO of course, i don't know how easy any of this would be, but something has to be done to help our shows, thats for sure.
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IIsis Arabians
www.iisisarabians.com www.ali-abbas.co.uk
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 3:53:01 PM
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If it was well supported, with good quality, good entries, and didnt make a loss,?? It seems strange.
Unless ofcourse, the organisers have hung up their boots/needed help, and/or, none was forthcoming???
Or, Because they were perhaps tired?? Who knows.??
Its a shame, because lots of competitors raved about it.
I am sure though, this decision would not have been made lightly.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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jasjmm
Gold Member
625 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 6:03:38 PM
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Have not read all of previous thread, so excuse me if repeating what people have said already, but I believe most other countries only have 3 or 4 C shows per year. As a consequence, they have very large classes and the shows are very well attended. We have 14 in this country. To the best of my knowledge all have now downgraded from International, to National status, due to the Flu jab scenario introduced last year.
I do think its a shame if we see our show season slipping away, but it is also a shame to see show competitors spread so thinly as to only see 2 or 3 (and sometimes only 1) in a class. Not sure what the answer is! |
    
Bristol |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 6:11:58 PM
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As for the words utter crap, the words fur coat and NO knickers comes to mind with your reply.
You said this:
When the show first came along I did think to myself 'oh god not another c show' now what exhibitor says that, a true exhibitor says YES another 'c' show to go to and have fun in!
What we suggest to you is to get out of the VIPs, get training and get showing and support the shows.
Blackbridge Arabians
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