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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 1:34:56 PM
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I really do not know what to do about this one, I am gonna be as honest as I can with you, I do not like my Arab gelding Dominik very much at all.
He is good to ride and in the 3 years I have had him(or is it 4) he has never once bucked with me or bolted or got strong or taken off at all ever! But the thing is I have not bonded with him and find him very irritating in some ways.
He will chase the others off their dinner and breakfast so they can't have any so I have to keep guard all the time he will eat his and eat theirs too which is highly annoying as Storm is on a special feed. He wont let the others have any hay at all and will wander back and forth from one hay crate to the other to the other so they cant get any, he also won't let them near the water trough either! He cannot settle to graze but upsets my other two constantly because he's always on the lookout and on guard or he wants them to wander round with him when they would really just rather graze. I know he's just a horse doing horse stuff but I do find him extremely annoying then I feel guilty for feeling like that.
He is definitely the boss of the field and can be a bully not something I like to see when it involves my lovely Storm! He is a pain in the backside for the farrier too. We have tried everything and now I just am at the point where I can't be bothered at all with him. He's not a particularly loving horse either he doesn't really like you hugging him or anything he's rather detached. As I said he's great to ride and that's hisone redeeming feature and I feel 100% confiedent on him.
If his old owner wanted him back I would say come and get him then! But I don't like the thought of selling him when I don't know where he will end up. Also the other reason I don't want to sell him particularly is that I do not want my little herd upset! In particluar Storm.
But I would really love another Arab like Storm something with his bloodlines and temperament as he is to die for really, he's on my horsey pedestal and I can't help it I love him so much and won't do anything that will cause him upset.
I realise you will probably all hate me now, but I have to be honest, I would rather ride Storm and muck about with him than with Dominik, I cannot be bothered with Dom and I feel awful really. But if I thought he would be happier elsewhere where he was the number one horse and someone would love him loads then.............????? I don't want a lot of upheavel and the others to be upset though, do you think it would be awful for them if he went?
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Adara_Arabians
Gold Member
England
736 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 1:57:54 PM
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Could it possibly be that you love your other one so much that no other horse will compaire to it, so instead you look for reasons as to why you wouldnt like him compaired to the other.
Would you sell him and buy another?
Or sell him and just keep Storm? |
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Marie-Molly
Gold Member
United Kingdom
929 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 2:11:22 PM
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It sounds as if you are feeding in the field - could you tie Dominik at feeding time, so that he only has his own bucket to worry about and the others get some peace while eating?
As for the protective attitude with hay and water, spreading the hay widely in the field so that it is unpractical for him to keep chasing the others could be a solution.
I am afraid he will always defend his position in the herd, being a "bossy" type horse - my gelding has one of those in the field and they have all reached a status quo. The boss horse (named "Boss"!) is fed hay the first and if it is sufficient or looks like a big enough pile, will stay put and let the others eat theirs. If he thinks he has been short-changed however, he will go and see what the others are having  .
I hope you can sort something out but I understand that sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you just do not like some horses. I am sure we all have experienced this.
Marie. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 2:21:20 PM
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To be rather blunt (please forgive me; I understand how people do love to have a love affair with their horses but...) horses to have a pecking order which is a natural herd dynamic. It isn't there so one horse can feel 'top dog' - it's a survival thing for the whole herd really. The others will know he is strong and they will respect him and feel secure. Watch a horse that's had its mates taken away - they get very insecure and neurotic.
Secondly, (blunt again I'm afraid) horses aren't really there to be kissed and hugged. It's not their way of getting happiness and security. He's only being what he is; a horse, and a male.
I would capitalise on his strength and put him to work where he will need that courage and determination. Take him cross country or doing le Trec or endurance and see how much you get out of him. I'll guarantee he'll do his best for you and then you will start to feel you have a very special partner.
It's the same with stallions. There must be mutual respect and you make the most of their male instincts which are NOT being used like a fluffy My Little Pony!!
The food thing is very stalliony. I'd simply put this horse in his own paddock, across electric fencing from the others so they can nuzzle and interact but they all get the food they require.
Don't give up. You could have the performance horse of a lifetime there! |
Roseanne |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 3:50:32 PM
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At the end of the day Danielle if he's not the horse for you and you don't want to do things with him then maybe you should sell him to someone who does - there is nothing wrong with admiting a horse isn't right for you and moving on.
However, I do feel a bit sorry for him as it's obvious you adore Storm and he probably picks up on this which isn't nice for any horse.
My boy is a grumpy old git to be honest. He's never been cuddly or kissy and he's really defensive of his stable and his dinner! He's got a bit better (I can now go in the stable when he's eating - we've had him 13yrs). Apparently when he was younger and a colt, they all used to be fed in the field together and he had to fight for his dinner or it would be nicked off him - maybe a similar thing has happened to your gelding?
I personally would not feed horses in the field as it's a recipe for disaster - maybe if you fed them seperately outside the field he wouldn't feel the need to defend all food incl. hay? I think he is obviousl yworried that he isn't going to get enough |
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Helen Newton
Gold Member
England
692 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 4:54:38 PM
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Hi Danielle
The behaviour you are describing is quite typical and as others have said is part of the normal pecking order of a herd. My situation is very similar to yours, I have Carly who I absolutely love to bits, Rooster is the 'new boy', he is has a perfectly nice temperament, is a good ride albeit it bit green (at 7) compared to Carly (who is 13), it fact his behaviour towards humans is gentlemanly compared to Carly's mischevous and cheeky nature Rooster is the boss of the field, with my retired mare 2nd in command and Carly right at the bottom. I always separate them to bucket feed and always make sure that the hay is evenly distributed or I would have the same problems as you. I have had Rooster for 2 years and Carly for 9 years, I sometimes feel guilty that I love one more than the others, but then I also remind myself that one day Rooster may have to take Carly's place and in a way he is being trained up for that role! Rather than get another horse instead of Dominik and have the same or similar thing happen, I would stick with him and enjoy him for his good points. I'm sure that one day you will be glad you did |
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Edited by - Helen Newton on 19 Feb 2007 4:56:09 PM |
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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:24:35 PM
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Err feeding him outside the field is not an option unless I am to hold him on a rope in the road!!! We don't have limitless acreage!!! I have to put hay out in wooden hay crates and not on the floor as Dominik will pee on every single pile otherwise and then the others don't get any at all, so they have 3 hay crates to eat from which works okay most of the time. I am not about to spread the hay out far and wide it would be too wasteful with him there.
I do not have a trailer or transport of any kind so taking him here there and everywhere to things like Le Trec or whatever is not an option, some of us just have the bare horses and do not have all the trimmings that go with them. I couldn't afford all the competing anyway!
Storm is a gentleman and respects everyones space, Dominik will happily walk all over you and is a pain to handle on the ground.
Believe me Dominik does not have to fight over food he gets enough to sink a battleship but not so much to make him bonkers, he is a very good doer and they are all spread out over the field at feed times, but he will trot from one to another to get what he wants.
He is not a very good boss in the field either as he is extremely spooky and unsettled and upsets the others with his behaviour, Storm is so laid back compared to him it's amusing to watch sometimes.
I am not sure I would get another horse actually, but if I did do I would want something similar to Storms breeding. I have enough time to do 2 so that's not a factor.
When Dominik first arrived I did give him lots of time to adjust and get used to things. I tried my hardest with him, and he's very nice to ride now and works in a lovely outline once settled but as he's not registered he's never going to compete properly. |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:32:09 PM
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Danielle, I think that people are only trying to help. No-one can see your set up over a pc so maybe you are being a little negative to the replies you have had already .
Maybe he is just bored and needs to do more?
Jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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moonfruit
Silver Member
England
475 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:32:53 PM
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Hi Danielle
Such a hard situation & no one but you can know what the gut feeling you have is. If you really aren't that enamoured with Dom then he will have picked up on it. If you don't feel you really really want to dedicate yourself to the point where you could have a good bond with him (& there's nothing wrong at all with saying you don't want to) then it may be fairest to you both to find him a home where he is someone else's No 1 horse.
You don't say in your post, but are you looking for a second horse? I get the impression you want another Storm. Is Storm getting older or is there some reason you want a second horse? Sorry to be so nosey, I was just thinking that Storm's shoes sound very hard to fill I think you might need to look for another horse that totally ticks every box you have rather than compare them to Storm. If that is another horse Very Like Storm, fair enough, but no horse can be Storm or replace him & it would be unfair to expect that.
To echo Roseanne, Dom is just behaving like the boss, perfectly normal horse interaction. If Storm is getting older than any younger horse is likely to boss him around. In the wild, younger herd members often drive older ones away as they are a drain on the herd's resources. Harsh maybe, but it's a hard wired instinct & you may find you have the same problem with another horse.
Does Dom try & behave like the boss with you? I have had this before & it can be unpleasant & you can go right off a horse when they behave like that, so I empathise if that is part of the problem.
At the end of the day, you just have to go with your heart. There are as many people out there who would be just perfect for Dom as there are horses that are just perfect for you |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:41:56 PM
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I have three filly's Pif (very laid back almost horizontal, Magic very sweet and in the middle, Khaly a very strong character most definately top dog, she will pee and pooh on all hay to stop others having it, its quite natural and normal, i tie up to feed as she is like a steam train through the others, they just wouldnt stand a chance, but i wouldnt have it any other way, yes it can sometimes be heartbreaking to see the others being what i would call bullied, but they do have this mutual respect and survival code going on, Khaly to can at times be hard to bond with, but it wouldnt do for all horses to be the same, god we would get bored. i to have to totally agree with Roseanne.
Paula.
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Edited by - gossy on 19 Feb 2007 6:51:28 PM |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:43:19 PM
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| I guess we have to admit that all arabs won't necessarily suit all arab owners. It does seem a shame that its a personality issue, as no matter where he goes he'll always follow his instinct to be leader. Is he in any way dangerous are his attacks vicious or just establishing pecking order? My mares a right grumpy old bag but I knew this and over 16 years we work around the teeth nashing, stamping and general crabby behavior. Her good qualities far outweigh her bad Could you split the field perhaps, or section a small pen for feeding him? I always found that no matter what the temperament feeding in the field could result in scrapping. Sorry can't be much help, but it almost sounds like your minds made up. Whatever the outcome I hope it turns out for the best |
      
Claire & Sunny x
http://sunnyandclaire.blogspot.com/ |
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arabic
Platinum Member
England
4562 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:54:02 PM
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Have you thought about trying some natural horsemanship with him? Perhaps that would help with your bonding? It might be worth a try if you really want to keep him.
Freddie and I always had a good bond but it has improved things tremendously for us. I keep him sectioned off from the other horses because he is such a good doer. Most of the time he can see other horses but he is fine on his own.
Good luck with whatever you decide, all we can do is make suggestions and hope that it helps.
Sandie |
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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 6:54:45 PM
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I have had Storm since he was 4 and just backed, except that he wasn't backed very well so I gave him time off to mature and at 5 backed him again myself and he's lovely now but then he always has been, he has always had a 100% wonderful temperament.
I did tons and tons of groundwork with him and he's very very respectful now.
I have tried doing the same groundwork with Dominik but I find him(forgive me for this) a little slow on the uptake and when he doesn't want to do something he will be ultra stupid about it and/or refuse to do anything and will zone out completely, I could dance naked in front of him and he would just ignore me.
With Storm although he can be sharp he is super bright and I taught him loads of dressage moves on the ground first and then just got on him and away he went doing his moves, turn on the forehand leg yielding, backing up, half pass etc he learnt them all so quickly it's a shame I don't have transport to take him out and about and show him off I am sure he would do well, is this all because I had Storm from a youngster???? Is that why I have a great bond with him now? I bought Dom as a 9 year old, his old owner spoilt him to death and loved him dearly, but I don't think this did him any favours.
Dom is very very safe to ride I have never fallen off him and he doesn't have any nasty tricks and is genuine ridden wise, so what should I do?? Do I do more groundwork? Is he bored just hacking?
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 7:10:44 PM
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| Well if you haven't bonded in three years I doubt you're going to. It sounds like you know in your heart what you want to do so why not see if you can find him a lovely home and concentrate on Storm. If you just have the one then maybe you can do more with him and have more fun than struggling with two? I'm sure someone will love Dom and be very happy with him especially if he's such a good ride. Don't feel bad about it after all at the end of the day it's meant to be fun and pleasure although make sure it's not the February blues cause everything seems harder at this time of year. |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 7:25:44 PM
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I'm sorry if the things I've said sound critical. That wasn't the effect I wanted!
It sounds like you have two really lovely horses; different in their ways but with lots to give you.
I would do join-up with Dom to get your relationship off to a better footing. If you haven't done it yourself, someone who has can come and do it and then instruct you to do it with him.
I also think it sounds like you've almost decided to give up on him but it would be great if you could just turn that corner with him and form a good relationship with him. It will always be different from Storm because you once devoted yourself to him completely and it was you who did everything for him and gave everything to him (very successfully obviously!). It's a real shame you can't afford to bring him out as you deserve to have that fun with all the work you have put in. Horses are expensive to keep. If you do decide to downsize and only have one horse, you may be able to do more with that horse.
I'd get some electric fencing and keep Dom separate by a tape. That way he doesn't have to compete for food or seniority; you get to ride him when you want and diddle the others without his interference. It would save you resenting him for being the horse that he is and if it solves the problem it could turn all this negative stuff into positive. |
Roseanne |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 7:26:46 PM
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| PS There are loads of people out there who'd give lots for a genuine, safe, capable, versatile horse like Dom!!! |
Roseanne |
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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 7:36:39 PM
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Thank you all very much for your replies, I am still not sure what to do and it's not something I will decide on very quickly either, thank you all. |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 7:37:55 PM
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Well I hope you don’t take offence at this but the main problem you seem to have with Dominiks is he is not a carbon copy of Storm.
I assume that you have your horses to ride as you have geldings and I am not sure riding wise what your problem is with him other than he does not react and learn at the same pace as Storm. I think you have to accept that no matter what horse you get there will be differences to Storm and you must try to not keep comparing them.
As regarding his behaviour in the field most of it sounds normal. Although I can admit when Ghost first came and in my opinion he picked on Tizzy, nothing major just moving her of hay nets or herding her to where he wanted her and I would pointed out she should stand up for herself but at the end of the day they were just being horses.
After I lost Tizzy I got Tara and my friend said she was surprised because when we went for her she expected me to get something similar to Tizzy but Tara was totally different and as I pointed out I could never replace Tizzy and fell for Tara for being herself, Which I think is what you may be have to do, treat each horse as an individual and not keep trying to turn it into Storm.
If in your heart you know you will never be able to accept Dominik as he is for him I think yes you should sell him and hopefully he will find another person who is right for him and you will find another horse that is right for you
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Danielle
Silver Member
Wales
355 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 8:15:09 PM
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| If you had read my post I have already said I do not have a problem with Dominik riding wise he's just fine, handling wise on the ground he's bolshy and disrespectful and not gentle either, riding wise he's fine, I wasn't expecting a carbon copy of Storm at all but rather a horse I could gel with and get on with which I don't with Dom. |
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Helen Newton
Gold Member
England
692 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 8:22:08 PM
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| Well, you did ask for people's opinions which is what you got. Perhaps the best option would be to sell Dominik and buy a trailer so you can take Storm to competitions |
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Nuttybabez
Gold Member
England
522 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 8:32:32 PM
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Well you have a clear decision - keep him and try really hard to bond with him and accept him but from what you are saying, you have already tried that. Or you can sell him.
I understand its worrying thinking about selling a horse - you want him to be well looked after and loved but he is a good horse and good to ride so that should help him find a nice home. Maybe loan him first so you know he is in a nice home?
Sometimes, you just don't get on with a horse and it annoys you when one disrupts the herd - My 4 have a lovely herd arrangement and I wouldn't allow anyone else to put their horse in with mine now as I have had other horses in my field who have disrupted my herd and bullied my horses and they all seem unhappy which makes you unhappy.
But its up to you what you do, if you are not happy with him, maybe its time to part? As long as you have given him a fair chance, thats all you can do. I know he has done nothing wrong but sometimes it just doesn't work out with a horse. |
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jasjmm
Gold Member
625 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 8:56:54 PM
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Hi Danielle
I don't think you should feel bad at all about the situation. I have a friend who has worked with horses all her life and I always remember her saying "if you don't get on with a horse and you have given it your best shot, then don't feel bad about it, move him on [obviously as carefully as you can] to give him another chance and you another chance." I think she was absolutely right. She is not ridiculously sentimental like me, but far more realistic and, in the long run, fairer probably.
Don't give yourself a guilt trip. As someone else said, maybe he is cut out for endurance or something?
Out of interest, I wonder when he was gelded - he sounds like he is displaying slightly riggy behaviour?
Best regards,
Mary |
    
Bristol |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 10:08:39 PM
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A join-up and some associated groundwork could very well help Dom to be much more respectful being led and handled from the ground. I have an associate who does wonders in-hand (and solving loading problems). If he is 'bolshy' in-hand it is probably because he was never taught the rules of respecting the human's space from when he was a foal. This is something join-up gives, as it helps you and the horse to form a relationship in a language a horse understands, rather than expecting them to understand human language.
It's a common failing to expect horses to know and realise what we want of them. They can't speak so they don't know. We have to find a way to get them to comply with our wishes through cooperation, repetition and reward.
Problems can really snowball when you are waiting for bad behaviour; when it happens it reinforces your feelings of dissatisfaction and anger with the horse. But horses are trained by people and although innate temperament is very important, that initial training is crucial, as your difficult experience with Dom is proving. |
Roseanne |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 01:25:43 AM
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Hey Danielle please don't feel bad about this! While there are some very helpful suggestions here, I don't see why you should be made to feel guilty. Sometimes a person and a horse are just not suited to each other - it's clearly not the horse's fault, but it's not your fault either! I really don't see any point in apportioning blame here.
Perhaps it would be best to try to find the right person/home for Dom - someone who will be better suited to him and who will love him as much as you love Storm. I don't think you are looking for a carbon copy of Storm - it sounds to me as though this experience has made you aware of the qualities you are looking for in a horse, and it might be better, for both you and Dom, to sell him to a good home, and find a horse with the kind of temperament that suits you. Or just concentrate on Storm for a while.
But don't beat yourself up, OK?
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avanti
Platinum Member
England
2222 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 06:46:12 AM
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| Hi, I think Kate is right here; I learnt this lesson a few years ago I never keep horses I don't like, that doesn't mean that I am always selling in fact quite the opposite, my horses mostly have a home for life but my feeling is that its not fair to keep a horse that you don't really gel with when there is probably someone else that will be the horses forever partner, JMO, don't beat yourself up; you can't like everyone, Mandy. |
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anne
Gold Member
England
877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2007 : 09:45:59 AM
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Danielle,
Plese don't take my comments the wrong way I agree with the others, At the end of the day some people and horses do not gel regardless of the amount of time and effort you put in and if you feel you just can't get on with this horses than it would be better for you to sell him.
I know it is hard when you have or have had your perfect horse and would love to have another exactually the same, but the reality is you may never find it.
I also agree that maybe just having the one and being able to afford to take and do things with him would be nice and then maybe look at getting another when you are looking to reducing his work load. there is nothing better that days out with a horses you love to be with.
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