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mazey
Gold Member
 England
501 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 4:00:59 PM
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I was reading through old AHS mags and came across this review of the stallion class from the Arab Horse Show l980
Mr Pitt Rivers' Haroun won the senior second section...... It was interesting to note that when Haroun did his beautiful floating trot his supporters went "sh sh sh" to stop the applause which so often throws a horse off his stride.[font=Stencil][/
I wonder what he would have made of the tin shaking, bag waving, whooping that goes on to make the horses trot out nowadays.
How times have changed!!upfont=Stencil]
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Libby Frost
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4711 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 6:08:17 PM
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| its true though isnt ? How many times have you seen the horses trot fantasic until the whopping starts then they spook and are put off!! its also amazing how the CORRECT action was totally taken for granted in those days, you look at the Crabbet Convention in 85 and watch the likes of Orontes and Silver Blue etc trot, no one claps!! |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2006 : 7:09:10 PM
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| Haroun had a lovely powerful trot and was quite highly strung so if he'd been around today I think he would have completely lost the plot!!! |
Marilyn
     
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 10:17:05 AM
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So sad that things have changed.
It was much better back then |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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suneagle
Gold Member
England
727 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 10:43:40 AM
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i remember reading somthing oneday (cant remember what mag?) but it said how the americans think british are boreing and dont apprecate showing because they "cheer" for good performances.
its not that we have more respect and let a huge cheer out after they have he pointed at for 1st place.
but at the nationals i went into the gelding class (as abit of a no-body) and a few people cheered and claped for me as i went running it, it felt so good to show off and people i loved it. i agree with the cheering and clapping but i dont like the stones in bottles and tins and all what nots,.
anyway aint it against the rules?. |
clare xxxx |
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Kelly
Platinum Member
England
1571 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 12:53:18 PM
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NatH, I just had to post to say how beautiful Khasim is! I spotted him in your signature and went noseying on your website to see who he is.
I'm so sorry to read of his problems, and the pictures have rather upset me. But it looks like he is progressing well, and will be back to his normal regal and absolutely stunning self very soon. |
Kelly
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 5:25:38 PM
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As a vocal supporter of our Horses, this thread interests me,
The last 3 weeks the weather as been terrible here and with 8 Horses
stabled and demanding so much work and attention, And the prospect of a back operation on thursday, Foals coming in March, Mair and Abi already working on next years Horses to show, Not a Holiday in sight
and 3 months of Winter to face, I make no apology for clapping and shouting for our Horses, After all the Arabian was bred to be a War Horse can you imagine a quiet battle,
Mair just read this and said she lives showing 24/7 365 days a year
and when she cannot support her own Horses why go on,
Can you imagine Horse Racing and nobody cheers, a Racing owner once
told me in a show to stop shouting for my Horse,
Two weeks later i went to a race meeting and the same person was screaming and shouting i asked her to stop shouting for her Horse
She asked me why,Is that a double standard
Nick Mair and Abi Blackbridge Arabians |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 6:05:57 PM
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Yes Nick, I agree with you, you need to desensitise them so they arnt frightened and associate this behaviour with nice things.
Theres nothing wrong with clapping to show the appreciation of the horses, but if it upset them, I would stop.
But the bottles with stones and the whip or wood across the fencing is going to far.
Thankfully, the shows were I have been officiating or spectating, have had that under control to a degree.
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 7:39:24 PM
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I think the days of horses trotting around in reverential silence are long gone and I agree that they need to be de-sensitised to noise. And some of the stallions really do seem to play up to the crowd and enjoy the cheering and clapping.
But I was watching the foal classes at the Nationals (which I think you were judging Nick, ) and there was someone shaking a rattle at the side of the ring when(presumably) their foal went past (and the judge wasn't looking). I thought that was over the top for youngsters who had enough to cope with anyway.
I'm not trying to start another controversial thread - I just thought the review was interesting and showed how times have changed. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 7:50:21 PM
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| Originally posted by suneagle
i remember reading somthing oneday (cant remember what mag?) but it said how the americans think british are boreing and dont apprecate showing because they "cheer" for good performances.
its not that we have more respect and let a huge cheer out after they have he pointed at for 1st place.
but at the nationals i went into the gelding class (as abit of a no-body) and a few people cheered and claped for me as i went running it, it felt so good to show off and people i loved it. i agree with the cheering and clapping but i dont like the stones in bottles and tins and all what nots,.
anyway aint it against the rules?.
Yes Clare, it IS against the rules to use any form of noisemaker.
And it is also worth pointing out that although some people cheer for *their* horse to make it moove better, there are also people make a noise when any horse they consider might push theirs down a place is trotting out IN ORDER to make it spook and hence show less well - in plain words, cheating. That is why I would prefer we went to back to what you call the 'respectful' way: then there would be a level playing field for everyone.
Incidentally, did anyone else here attend PUK where the 'clapometer' method of judging some evening classes was used? There were massive complaints about it, both from spectators there and in the horsey press afterwards, including calls for the person who introduced it to resign.
Nick: racing, like rugby, is an adrendaline sport, so cheering is all part of the fun (she says, having smugly seen Ireland beat the Aussies by a huge margin  ), but showing I think is more like golf, where concentration is key. I don't think even Tiger Woods would be too happy if someone started yelling him on as he was just about to address the ball!
Keren |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 7:59:52 PM
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Keren - I didn't know it is against the rules, but I did notice at the Nationals, there appeared to be someone on duty (Steward? I don't know) who was keeping an eye on the person who had the rattle outside the foal class.
Sorry to be ignorant but What is PUK? |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 8:05:29 PM
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Cheering your own Horse is a pleasure when the Horse is going well and enjoying itself,It is in context,When you are cheering to make the Horse attempt to perform and the Horse is flat and not enjoying itself it becomes a Joke,
I would not agree about de-senitsed quite the opposite you want them to enjoy themselves raise their game be like Robbie Williams and say "Let me entertain you" which only comes with confidence and good training, Like the Pose it is about confidence in their handler,
Nick
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 8:07:03 PM
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Keren I believe the woman has resigned!! The clapometer was a huge mistake since the need for rentacrowd came into the equation if anyone wanted to win. How rediculous. And yet a similar thing happens at Towerlands when workers from various yards are placed round the arena to make noise to help 'spook' their own horse.
Masie, PUK is Ponies UK... |
Roseanne |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 8:16:44 PM
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Keren when my Horses are Trotting and showing their socks off my Andrenline is pumping,
If i had to "cheat" to win i would not exihibit,
"Respectful" a big word which you have to earn,You cannot be given respect,And the way to earn it is to get out there and exhibit get in the trenches so to speak feel the Andrenline and cheer your own Horse,
Nick |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 8:44:44 PM
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Nick, I think I have missed the point somewhere then.
Why are you clapping and cheering at home????
Surely its praise for them showing off, and teaching them not to worry about the noise.
If training was done in silence at home, they would be frightened to death at a show wouldnt they???
I am confused. |
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Jilly
Platinum Member
England
2431 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 9:07:19 PM
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I also am guilty of clapping/cheering a GOOD FREE MOVING arab, and mine hav'nt been in the ring yet, so I understand what you mean about the adrenalin Nick, the rush must be even greater when it's your own horse in the ring.
However, despite rules being in place ther are many arabian spectators/exhibitors who do take things to the extreme and will do anything to ensure the horse moves, sadly the horse just becomes unsettled and agitated, HORSES WHO ARE NATURAL MOVERS DO NOT NEED ALL THE HYPE AND NOISE.
To my mind, clap in your appreciation of a good animal, NOT to work it into a frenzy in the hope that you may get a couple of good steps.
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 9:47:46 PM
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Pat you can do what you like at Home nothing can duplicate show atmosphere,Trust in their handler is paramount,This not about frightened Horses or the good old days, But a happy Horse giving a good performance,No doubt showing in hand suits the extrovert Horse
But a well trained in show condition Horse with a confident handler
and a good team behind them all having fun is what it is all about,
But we always end up somewhere else To much cheering ,frozen pose,
no respect,Where i see some exiting Horses with good handlers some gamesmanship and some bad handling but a lot of that is ignorance,
in the hands of a few,But we are not going backwards maybe more intense,
Mazey yes i did Judge the foals at the Nationals and my breif to my exellent stewards was to tell the handlers to enjoy themselves but my number one prority was a safe show for the foals which i think we had
no accidents or loose foals and hopefully a enjoyful time for the foals,
Nick
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 1:32:22 PM
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| Originally posted by Nick
Keren when my Horses are Trotting and showing their socks off my Andrenline is pumping,
If i had to "cheat" to win i would not exihibit,
"Respectful" a big word which you have to earn,You cannot be given respect,And the way to earn it is to get out there and exhibit get in the trenches so to speak feel the Andrenline and cheer your own Horse,
Nick
Nick, I am not talking about respect for the handlers, I'm talking about showing respect for the horse when it is coping with instructions from its handler as well as the whole show environment (I *do* get in the ring and show myself, but you've probably never seen me since we are so far geographically apart!).
I don't have anything against cheering a horse once it's FINISHED its trot out, but I do hate to see a well-moving horse literally put off its stride by an outburst of noise from the crowd. That's what I go to a horse show FOR - to see the horses. If I just wanted an adrenaline rush, there are lots of other things I could do instead.
And while you don't need to cheat, Nick, we both know full well that there are people out there who do use just this tactic (as well as others) if they see a horse they think might present theirs with real competition.
As to de-sensitising at home...well, it is easy if you have access to a 'rent-a-crowd', but considerably less so for the one horse owner who isn't on a livery yard. They are exactly the sort of people whose horses are often upset at shows by the current racket - BUT they are the people we need to ENcourage, not DIScourage from showing - which is what is happening right now.
Just about every other breed manages to show without this hoopla - and I defy anyone to say that a big-moving Dales, for example, is any less exciting in its own way as an Arab. We have to be honest with ourselves and realise that behaving in this way DOES affect more than the atmosphere round the Arab showring on the day.
In the eyes of the general equestrian world, it makes the Arab and Arab owners look - to be blunt - a pack of pillocks, and actively puts people off involvement with the breed. This is something we really CANNOT afford, both financially, and in terms of the welfare of the foals we breed, since reduced appeal means an ever-shrinking market, hence fewer good homes for geldings in particular. And however we feel about cheering horses on in the showring, I can't think any of us wants that.
Keren |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 1:42:01 PM
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Thanks Kelly for your kind words.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through, I don't know what I would do without him, he is my best friend. |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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suneagle
Gold Member
England
727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 3:56:59 PM
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| Originally posted by Nick
If i had to "cheat" to win i would not exihibit,
i 100% agree with you on that one!
even at local show my mum,dad,fiance and friends clap and cheer for me, makes me feel like im doing them all proud and showing well, they dont do it to get my horse "moveing", he has a great movement anyway, it just gives a good feeling all round, with me, the horse and even afew judges have commented on it.
one judge said "its so good to hear the croud enjoying the class and getting into showing, i really like to see enthusium like that, and also said ive found judging this class a real joy." and that was a local M&M judge!
ive had a few commets for spectators and judges like that, saying it does make it more EXCITING!
and i think that is something that the arab showers should carry on with giving us a good name like that.
i have seen people, rattle the fence, shake bottles with stones ect... and i think this behaviour should be stamped out!.
i am a one horse owner, who has made it from the real bottom with no name to where i am now! good enough to show at the nationals, winning alot here in the southwest, so i am so proud of myself and my horse, also so is my family and friends hence why they cheer!.
nick, i watched your foal class, i did notice you really did the foals a lovely class and very safe enviroment for them to be in. |
clare xxxx |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 6:50:39 PM
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I have many years of reading about the "real horse world"what is that i often wonder?? Every breed every discipline as its followers,
all interested in different things,
Being Welsh and having Arabians sets you apart from most in hand exhibitors in Wales,But come the Royal Welsh and Cob day and you see real andrenlaine pumping from every pore watched by around fifty to seventy thousand very vocal supporters all in the Horse world, but not maybe the real Horse World,
I witnessed members of the "real horse world" when Judging a county show the first ridden was a peach parents and supporters who put young Children under so much pressure,Outside interference we are saints we only cheer,They are RUDE beyond belief
Nick |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 1:11:02 PM
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| Originally posted by Nick
I have many years of reading about the "real horse world"what is that i often wonder?? Every breed every discipline as its followers,
all interested in different things,
Being Welsh and having Arabians sets you apart from most in hand exhibitors in Wales,But come the Royal Welsh and Cob day and you see real andrenlaine pumping from every pore watched by around fifty to seventy thousand very vocal supporters all in the Horse world, but not maybe the real Horse World,
I witnessed members of the "real horse world" when Judging a county show the first ridden was a peach parents and supporters who put young Children under so much pressure,Outside interference we are saints we only cheer,They are RUDE beyond belief
Nick
Nick, the people in my 'real horse world' want horses that can DO something - from being a family ridden horse through hunting up to eventing.
You talk about having to earn respect; well, that is the problem the Arabian has to begin with in these circles. It is bad enough that it is seen by this (large) section of the equestrian community as something that can only trot round a showring. Add in the hoopla of yelling & screaming, etc, and any cred that people like me have been trying to build up for the breed goes right out of the window.
I know pony ridden classes are supposedly plagued by 'show mothers' of the type you describe, but the thing that strikes me when I go to PUK is how NICE the atmosphere is, compared to most Arab shows these days. What a sad thing is is to say that 
Keren |
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suneagle
Gold Member
England
727 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 4:19:07 PM
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i think thats a bit mean saying in " your real horse world", you saying that people who love to show, i am one a one horse owner who works in tesco and loves to compete in my chosen disapline, is not in the real horse world?. hmmm? disapline discrimanation? LOL.
i have to add my little life story here, i was not one who has been growing up with horses, i used to ride at a riding school, and then i finally got my 1st horse (suneagle who i still have now!), ive done everything with freddie at a local level and last year i decided to try affilated inhand with him, i was welcomed with HUGE open arms, everyone is so friendly and always willing to help(even producers and stud owners) with handling, getting the right shape and just being NICE allround making me feel like i fitted in not so much like an ameture, there no line between them and us.
this year i took a big leap and went to the nationals at first i felt so out of my depth, but i met so meny nice people there, also helping me for my 1st time, and the atmosphere was amazing and not OTT in my words but it was a real nice big show the judge which was nick was really nice to me aswell as the steward as he could tell i was so nervious and very pale like i was going to faint  i got some really nice comments from everyone even a top producer who really liked my horse, it was an amazing show. and i didnt think i would like the clapping and wooping but once i got in there and it was brillent for a 1st timer i will be going back again and again.
you saying people like you, am i like you or not?.
because ive worked on my horse for so long, he wasnt born fantasic, he came to me beaten, nasty, his schooling had be replaced with constant running away, skinny his ribs were sticking out and no musscle and look at him now in my sig.
so ive made it me a girl from no where with a "normal" horse who has beaten in the ring producers and stud horses, it proves that people from non horsey back grounds and do just as well as stud and produced horses. |
clare xxxx |
Edited by - suneagle on 24 Nov 2006 4:28:12 PM |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 5:15:18 PM
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Suneagle - your horse looks absolutely lovely and well done you for having a go at the Nationals - in at the deep end or what.
It's good that your horse didn't mind the clapping and shouting and it made you feel more confident - I think that MinHe was just saying that SOME horses get put off by the noise and that SOME supporters actually use that to their advantage. I have to say I didn't realise that and if that is really the motive behind some of the supporter's actions I think it's pretty pathetic. But like lots of people have pointed out in various threads, people get VERY competitive in any sport at top levels. AND for some people winning is more important than taking part or playing fair. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 12:51:42 PM
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| Originally posted by suneagle
i think thats a bit mean saying in " your real horse world", you saying that people who love to show, i am one a one horse owner who works in tesco and loves to compete in my chosen disapline, is not in the real horse world?. hmmm? disapline discrimanation? LOL.
Clare, I put 'real horse world' in inverted commas deliberately, as that is what most non-Arab people think of themselves.
In the part of the UK where I live, though it is the traditional 'horsey centre' of England there are very, very few Arabs - in fact I have to drive at least an hour to get to any Regional Group. Therefore non-Arab people seldom encounter Arabs except at County shows, where they are only likely to see them in-hand (for some reason, County shows seem to like to run ridden Arab classes at silly o'clock), so just stop a moment and pause to think what impression people get of our breed: that it is just for showing in-hand. Add to that spectators who behave in a way more like a pop concert than a hosrse show, and it does NOT encourage people to take our lovely horses seriously :(
It's because I don't want our geldings to end up like your boy was before you got him that we need to get the breed taken more seriously - so that people will be prepared to buy them as a serious riding horse AND have fun showing, as well as a friend for life.
Mazey - you got what I was saying exactly. There *are* people prepared to do anything to win, which you probably will realise if you remember the thread about doping here on AL some months ago (Nick's horse was one of those attacked).
Keren |
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