| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| glentullock |
Posted - 11 Jul 2011 : 11:07:39 AM
Hi can anyone help or has anyone had the the same problem, i had my mare covered at my local stud last year and have requested the covering certificate ever since and i am getting every excuse under the sun as why i havent recieved it, i have checked and the stallion is licenced.
i have made numourous calls to the stud but they are now refusing to answer.
if anyone has any suggestions or has had this problem please let me know how u over come the problem. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| arabdream |
Posted - 18 Jul 2011 : 12:14:54 PM
I have had issues of Warm blood stallion owner who insisted on cash, and after I paid all my fees and keep refused to give me a covering certificate or receipt for the money I'd paid him.
I don't think it's fair for foals to be used as bargaining tools, for money on either side. Small claims courts are there for that !!
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| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 10:44:51 PM
The AHS are only doing their job and I 100% agree that they should not issue covering certificates; that is for the stallion owner. What if they had issued a covering certificate for my stallion who was supposed to have covered a mare I have never even heard of let alone covered with my stallion?
Sadly there will always be people who are less than ethical and trustworthy. Maybe I have just been fortunate in having almost always (with the odd exception) dealt with people who were honest and ethical. Again, thank you to those who have been trustworthy and a pleasure to deal with.
I have in the past paid thousands of pounds, cash in hand, for horses to be picked up at a later date with no receipt for my money and have never had a problem buying; selling has been a different matter!
Glentullock, I hope you get your covering certificate and that it won't put you off using an Arab stallion again. Most of us are decent people who are let down by the few bad apples.
Barbara |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 9:50:01 PM
Vik1 we can get as many as we like, and also get them backdated by one year if you lost the one from a mare that has just foaled... so that cant be stallion owners excuse...
glentullock.... I can understand why stallion owners nasty contact upsets you, you haven named anyone not even yourself, and nor your mare, so no one on here will know who stallion owner is.... however the person must have a bad taste in their mouth if they choise to react on this topic... hope you will have the trust to send your mare to someone else in the future if you are to breed again.
topic has surely made a lot of people think twice about different things... trust to stallion owners, mareowners and even to the AHS. |
| Vik1 |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 9:32:45 PM
Maybe theyve lost it?? Are stallion owners able to get another copy from the AHS if this has happened? Or do they only issue one and that is it? |
| glentullock |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 8:18:49 PM
i am not upsetat the treat evoling, but I for one would never write on here if i hadnt paid in full or done my homework reguarding regerastion, or % of mares. the thing that upset me was the narky message from the stud for putting this on here even though i havent named and shamed, i dont like confronting people, but as most have you pointed out that seems common practise you recieve your covering cert when collecting mares or on result of scan, all i wanted to know if any one had waited this long or never recieved it and wot happened next.
many thanks for all your comments and support
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| jackiedo |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 1:21:40 PM
I don't think that people were having a go at you personally, the discussion just "evolved" around usual practice and reasons to withhold. I am really sorry if I have caused you any upset.
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| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 11:21:56 AM
I too was amazed at Tamila's post. It is wrong that the AHS should give out covering certificates to mare owners. They are for the stallion owner only. However, I do wonder if it was at the time when things were a mess there.
I had some problems and they said they would look through my file and try to sort them. When I rang back they told me that there was a covering certificate for "X" (a well known stallion) without the name of the mare he had covered in my file. That was easy, none of mine! They said they would put it to one side and hopefully someone would ring and it would get soreted!
I am really pleased that the stallion owner has finally contacted you; this thread has had the desired effect! I hope you don't think that I thought that you were in any way to blame. As I stated before, if you had paid all the fees there is no reason for them not to give you the covering certificate. At least you know where not to go to for a stallion another year! I have always dealt by word of mouth so far and it has worked really well, no problems and everything as agreed, thank you Delyth, Steve, Delyth (again), Jones,s etc.
Makes me glad that I have never stood my stallions at stud although it would be lovely to see some foals out there and watch their progress.
I hope you have a lovely foal Glentullock.
Barbara |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 9:24:04 PM
glad to hear they contacted you, hopefully you will be able to get things sorted out.
this post however has made me a bit worried after reading Tamilas post.... I will contact AHS on monday as if the case is that any mare owner can do that without proving payment and DNA I will close the public book for my boy. |
| glentullock |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 7:39:54 PM
Thank you to everyone who has been supportive and not just slagged the situation off, as it turns out the sud had a phone call about my post and have recieved a message asking of such thing, i have to point out i havent named and shamed or slagged of anyone, i mearly asked advise of such matter as i have never heard of waiting 11 months for a cover cert, wen details were let with the stud for a month at time of cover and numouros calls were made to arrange to collect in person or leave with a friend of whomed been up there on a number of occasions, i was only asking for advise on the matter and did mean to upset or anger anyone over this matter, i am now hopping that this will be the end of the matter and i recieve it shortly, ill keep u updated. |
| pintoarabian |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 6:34:47 PM
Stubs for Covering Certificates are supposed to be returned to the AHS by the end of September. Mare owners using our stallions are issued with their Covering Certificates in the August of their year of covering, earlier on request. This is just so that the mare can return if she slips and that the final date of covering will be correct. In my opinion, it is not acceptable for a stallion owner to refuse to issue a covering certificate if all fees have been paid. I would wish for every drop of Arabian blood to be accounted for in any foal that I bred. It would not be acceptable to me to use a pure bred stallion on a part bred mare of mine and have none of his blood recognised. I hope that you can get the situation resolved. |
| chris wesley |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 6:32:02 PM
You are right glentullock you should have received the covering certificate when you collected the mare . If the stallion owner was waiting to receive the covering certificates they should have at least informed you of this with a promise to forward it you once in their possesion. I suggest you write to them requesting the covering certificate with a threat of legal action if it is not received within 14 days . I understand how frustrating it is when you have paid for a service , it appears you have been more than patient having waited 12 months or more .
Good luck & let us know the outcome . |
| glentullock |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 4:26:36 PM
I'd like to state, that I have paid in full, the mare is of 60% arab all I wanted to know is if anyone elses covering certificate took nearly a year and numarous phone calls to recieve it, I am not looking for a fight for pointing fingers but everyone I know had there's then collecting the mare from the stud. All I was asking is it commen to wait this long, I think this whole tread has been taken out of context. |
| chris wesley |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 11:52:36 AM
Breeding horses for some 30yrs I doubt it , I already owned 2 stallions a Spanish and an Egyptian. The mares were scanned twice allegedly, with weeks between scans . We didn't bring them home till just over 3 months later and I am always conscious of travelling horses home so gave them a good journey back. When they came home they didn't go near a stallion . It was when we covered another mare with our newly purchased stallion that we noticed one of the mares showing interest, so we had them tested again . This was when we found out that they were both empty BOTH !.
In the end we used our own stallion , both mares foaled the following year to him.
You are absolutely true Caryn , there is always 2 sides to every story and this one is mine . |
| weirton |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 11:19:36 AM
We always sent mares home with a copy of the scan pictures named and dated by the vet. All fees to be paid before leaving the premises.
In the case of Anglos, Weatherbys don't send the covering certs very early (TBs usually pay in October) so it's essential to have a receipt for payment and covering details too.
Jean |
| Kharidian |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 11:01:54 AM
I've been a lurker on this thread as there are two sides to every story! However:
Chris - Just a thought, but maybe the mares had been in foal, but bringing them home to where you'd now got a stallion brought them back into season?
Caryn
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| chris wesley |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 10:52:17 AM
I for one believe that the AHS should impose penalties to stallion owners that refuse to forward a covering certificate especially if the mare owner has proof of payment for the covering .
I remeber taking 2 mares down to Wales to be covered by a top imported stallion. Deposits were paid , and the mares were allegedly covered and after 3 months keep scanned infoal. We had both mares scanned twice so you can imagine the keep fee's and costs . During the time the mares were at stud, I bought a stallion by the same sire as the one we were using .
We brought the mares home and paid almost 2000.00 in keep fee's and costs only for both mares to be empty an in season within a week or so of coming home . I called the stud and was told the stallion had returned home but we could use his son , I asked for the deposits back as we didn't want to use the son , and this was refused as the stud were having finacial difficulties. Needless to say I would never use or rececomend the stud again. |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 10:28:35 AM
I have usually had the covering certificates for my mares after the foal is born. I have always paid promptly, did once pay by installments as I sent 3 mares to a very expensive stallion and couldn't afford all the stud fees, keep and vet fees at once. The stallion owner was fine about it (it was agreed before the coverings)! Fortunately so far all my deals have been done on verbal agreements and have worked well with honest people. I even gave Delyth the extra £400 due for a filly before she remembered it was owed! That is how things should be but unfortunately not everyone is honest.
Unfortunately, Rachelle, you have now made it clear that people can register their foals without a covering certificate, something many of us who only breed purebreds would not have known, so the cheats have a foal they can register and sell, allbeit not as a purebred, but if you don't have your own stallion the next best thing is a "free" covering!
I can see problems arising with the current economy and hope we won't be reading more of these threads.
Barbara |
| BabsR |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 10:14:47 AM
glentullock...I guess you yourself can answer your problem. You have not actually stated if you have a "proof of payment" receipt for the covering of your mare.
A signed receipt, along with DNA testing should be all that is needed to register your foal. The covering certificate is AHS, not stallion owner`s property and the signature on your receipt can be compared with Stallion owners signature, which will be on AHS records.
If covering/keep fees have been withheld ...then no way should you be allowed to register your foal, until payment has been made.
Following my own experience, Visiting Mare owners have to pay all fees by cash or cleared Bank Cheque on collection of their Mare. Once bitten, twice shy. Just a pity one bad apple spoils it for honest folk.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| jackiedo |
Posted - 16 Jul 2011 : 09:03:36 AM
Can I ask why the certificate has been withheld?
When I has Zarello covered I settled up when we went to get her back from stud, I presumed that was the usual practice. |
| templars |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 3:05:00 PM
No, no, no - sorry, I mustn't have made myself clear. I wasn't suggesting register the foal without paying the stud fee! What I meant was that if the stud fee has been paid and the covering certificate still isn't handed over, then the mare's registration should entitle the foal to registration.
I would never advocate registering without paying for stud fees.
And I also totally support DNA testing and agree that the AHS cannot, and should not, register foals without proof of parentage. The point I was trying to make is that this foal is a part bred and part bred foals aren't DNA tested (unlike pure and Anglo) and so given it has inherited enough Arabian blood from its dam (who is a part bred) to be eligible for registration (12.5%), then the foal can be registered without reference to the sire until any conflict is resolved.
When we stood our stallions at public stud, we learned the hard way - we covered a neighbours little Welsh mare - he brought her to us every day and then took her home after she'd been covered. He claimed she wasn't in foal and yet we saw her heavily pregnant and then with a foal at foot that was the image of our stallion. We were operating on a No Foal, No Fee basis and so he got a free foal. The only satisfaction I got was telling him that he could have got more for the mare and foal if the foal had been registered as a part bred.
We also bought a stallion and were then contacted several months later by someone saying that she had sent her mare to the stallion with the previous owner (bearing in mind that he wasn't actually licensed because he was only 2). She wanted me to say that the mare had been covered whilst I owned the stallion. I felt awful but I had to say no because I hadn't got any proof.
Now, when we send a mare away, we pay the stud fee as soon as we arrive(or even before she goes), it's all receipted and then when she leaves, all we pay is any livery and vets fees. |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 2:31:12 PM
I know others (Delyth included) who have not received payment for their stallion's covering and keep fees and I am with the AHS in not registering foals without it; yes, DNA will prove who the foal is by and then when it is registered the stallion owner can kiss goodbye to any hope of getting their money!
I assume the youngster who was sold as being by my stallion was not registered and the purchaser was told that she could be. Sadly she couldn't and they would have had no idea who the sire was. I felt bad about deflating their balloon but it is nothing like they must have felt when I told them that Spanish Crusader was not her sire. It is a nasty business and the cheats should not be allowed to register their foals until they have paid up.
Sorry Rachelle, while the owner of a part bred foal may be able to register it without paying the stud fee they agreed IT IS TOTALLY DISHONEST! People who stand their stallions at stud don't put in all the time and effort required just to be ripped off by unscrupulous people.
Off my soap box now.
Glentullock, I hope you get things sorted as I am sure there are a few bad stallion owners as well as bad stallion users.
Barbara |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 2:28:15 PM
I've always being handed the covering certificate at the same time I settled the bill. Sounds as if there is something wrong, is the horse registered and do they have him licened and at public stud.??
and I always thought the Service Cert were issued by the breed society to the stallion owner or have I got it wrong.
Rozy |
| Rozy Rider |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 2:27:03 PM
I've always being haded the covering certificate at the same time I settled the bill. Sounds as if there is something wrong, is the horse registered and do they have him licened and at public stud.??
Rozy |
| BabsR |
Posted - 15 Jul 2011 : 09:40:01 AM
Agree with you there Rachael...It seems maybe, that the mare is probably unregistered, or not having sufficient Arab blood to meet the minimum 12.50% requirement for registering the foal, otherwise the AHS would have advised her as you say, with no need for the sire details.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
| tamila |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 7:00:28 PM
I had this problem many years ago and eventually the secretary of the AHS sent me a certificate and said that they actually belong to the society and the stallion owner cannot withhold it. Any payment is between you and the stallion owner. I believe that it is something to do with them being a charity and it is in the rules. I would try again if I were you. |
