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T O P I C R E V I E W
navaho621
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 5:42:34 PM As weve seen in the past on here, if we know that an Arab is entered for a sale we often post on here about it, ive been guilty of this in the past on many occasions. However i know find myself questioning whether i should have done this, ive always done this to try & help one find a new home, but recent events have come to light & ive now discovered that some breeders are so worried about the verbal lynching that they would receive from here that they are opting for other avenues of "disposal". I dont wish to name names or point fingers, im sure that many breeders are struggling financially with their backs against the wall & name calling will not help their situations in the slightest. Its a shame that we come across so "scary" & it would be nice to think that in hard times this place would be a port of call for help rather then criticism.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Pop
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 3:52:01 PM That how you start telling the genuine from the none genuine, read the beautiful caring word above.
Milotkha
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 1:59:54 PM I have my very much loved mare for sale and I came on here with my heart on my sleeve and told the world my situation. I have had nothig but support and its all been very warming.
I love my mare so much but unfortunately, I am no longer in a position to be able to keep her comfortabely and its heart breaking.
I have had support, help and guidance from many people, and I will always be greatful.
Kim
garnet
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 1:47:15 PM So sorry, Pop - know how you are feeling at the moment and can't believe it is almost a year since I had to say goodbye to Garnet.
Pop
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 12:15:34 PM Yea, dear old Jess (36 yrs) went on a good day, I have difficulty deciding if that was good or bad.
I suppose we are all different, and those who don't want to keep a retired horse obviously have them for their usefulness; and I guess they are entitled to PTS if that is what they believe to be the right thing; but when they tell whopper lies to justify their actions, then they know that they are doing the wrong thing, and that's not right.
Mine are my friends, and I enjoy time with them, even if I cannot ride them. They make me laugh.
Interestingly and relevant I suppose, I bought her from someone I was told was a gypsy, he bought her off the meat man, after she came out of the auction ring and before she was loaded on the meat wagon. She cost me less than her bridle, and we had 12 years of many many miles and another 2 years of paddock fun. If her owner had PTS instead of putting her thru the sales, we would both have missed out on the most wonderful years for both of us.
jackiedo
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 11:55:21 AM Pop that's awful. I still wonder if I should have kept April a bit longer than I did, (tumour in her throat that was causing distress with repeated episodes of panic and choke) because she went on a good day, but to have a hoorse shot because it had Corns...
barbara.gregory
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 5:28:21 PM "Why would anyone who knew they were genuine, and knew they had their horses' best interests at heart be bothered by it enough to stop them asking for help?"
Not everyone is stong enought to take the slagging off at a bad time in their lives. To get to that point, particularly after having tried unsuccesfully to sell the horse or even give it away must be dreadful. And I agree with Nikki that it is better for a horse to be PTS than to stand starving in it's own droppings.
Sadly, I think there will be a lot of problems with the state of the economy and so many people losing their jobs.
Barbara
Pop
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 2:44:55 PM Oh no no no, wouldn't get her hands dirty, wasn't even there with him, didn't even say goodbye. It was a long while ago but I seem to recall she had a hair appointment, I guess its about priorities. People were given their instructions on what to do, I think my job was to clean the blood away.
I wonder if it wouldn't be better all round is she sadly drown; save someone the trouble of a good burning, and the waste of a good stake. Am I being scary?
You want to see a picture I have, the one that got away, her instructions were to 'just get rid of it', so she got sold not PTS.
LYNDILOU
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 2:16:49 PM Do you mean she shot him herself pop? it sounds like very sad story for that poor boy
nikki
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 1:58:36 PM pop i hope your soulmate is looking after my little "big" girl, bad days and good days eh, i hopefully it will all ease with time.
that is horrible what that lady done.
i must admit i can not bear looking at neglect threads anymore, even the donkey on tv, i can not look at, my heart just cannot take it, hurts too much.
i wonder how people who rescue all the time cope with seeing things like this on a daily basis
SueB
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 1:55:20 PM It's sometimes very hard to help people with horses that are genuinely going through hard times. One case the owner had no money couldn't afford to feed her starving horses, all the authorities had been called in and yet she still wanted to get the 'best price' for each horse? pure madness. It was a case of I paid such and such and wouldn't let anyone gain from her misfortune. There are such people about who only think of themselves and not the horses.
I think there is a place for 'sales', I enjoy looking and have bought at one. It's just a lot of arab owners seem not to like seeing their horses go to one. We once organised an Arab Sale around a display of arab horses and in-hand seminar, the only complaints we got was not enough horses for sale!! It was run as a silent sale and really just a way of introducing seller and buyer at one place. Lots of viewers came along and proved a successful day.
lottieherts
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 1:19:00 PM Shouldn't the AHS have a list compiled of people willing to help horses/people in need, then if one falls on hard times and does not want the horses to suffer they can approach the Society who would have network of people who may be able to help?
Pop
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 10:47:32 AM Yes, heartbreaking, and I wasn't outside the stable door cus I was sweeping or passing by or anything like that. I was there because I had grown to love him very much, and was desperate to know what was the matter with him. Its amazing how close you can get to a horse who you ride out with, his facial expressions were just hilarious; and I had got to know him as a good friend. She always claimed to have 'rescued him' .... Hmmmmmmm. Think she got 'buying a bargain' confused with 'rescued'; but there are egos to be groomed hey?
susan p
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 10:36:19 AM Oh god that is so awful Pop,,heartbreaking I have my suspicions about someone I know and it really disturbs me,but I am giving her the benefit of the doubt,because unlike you I was not there to here the vets diagnosis,,you think you know people!
Pop
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 10:25:30 AM Nikki, thank you. She was my soul mate; and I wonder when the screaming in my head will stop.
It is hard to believe that people would be so harsh to their trusted friends, but they do, no more use or in the way and BANG BANG you're dead.
I know (well not anymore) someone who had to retire her old trusted friend, who had done her great service in many ways, after about 3 months retired she was fed up paying out for him, he went lame, she called the vet, he said corns, she made up some story about the vet saying he was crippled and had to be shot, she shot him; and the only time I saw her upset was when the insurance wouldn't pay up. I often wonder if she ever realised I was outside the stable door and heard the corns diagnosis, irrelevant, she would have shot him anyway.
And if you knew how this woman promotes herself as a pillar of the community and a rescuer of horses, you would be sick to the stomach.
And these people will align themselves to the genuine.
I think I need to stop reading about these horses, but then turning a blind eye may be equally as bad.
Pop
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 10:08:31 AM It is the horses that matter, and acceptance of owners who threaten PTS will make this action acceptable because of familiarity and volume. And as long as the threat is unchallenged, the numbers will grow; and more dead horses.
Perhaps the 'bigger picture' is worth a look at. Or perhaps it is too late and it has already become acceptable, although not to me.
More than 4,600 TB's PTS in a year in Ireland. I give up.
nikki
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 09:56:27 AM pop sorry for your loss, i recently had to have one of mine pts, so i know how you are feeling, and knowing how hard it is, is why i refuse to believe that anyone could have their horse pts just becuase "it" was an inconvienence to them
but after seeing a load of horses starving and standing in their own sh.it, stables that hadn't been mucked out for weeks, with the people in complete denial that anything is wrong, it is something that will always haunt me, sometimes the kindest thing is to let a horse go, in it's home, knowing they have been loved and well cared for all their life.
they are so, so many dishonest people about, at the same time, thankfully there are many kind people about.
i think in future, the best way would be as navaho says, to approach paula and rui, and do a sticky at the top of the page, with no one to comment
i think people on here do critise too much, and i myself have prob done so in the past, when i was younger and more naive.
navaho, hope your friends can sort something out, and i wish them well
Zan
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 09:47:39 AM Well, I am going to repeat what I said before, and Rui underlined-- it's the horses that matter-- hurt feelings of the owner??? nowhere close. Like Pintoarabian, my horses are here for life, so if the truly unimaginable did happen, and I needed help, people who know me would know the situation was worse than dire, but others, of course wouldn't. It wouldn't stop me trying anything and everything for my horses--even if that meant posting on here and having some people being nasty. Villification--- I could handle that---verbal lynching-- I could handle that too, as long as in among it all there was a chance that someone would see it and be able to help I would suffer anything to save my horses.Why would anyone who knew they were genuine, and knew they had their horses' best interests at heart be bothered by it enough to stop them asking for help?
Pop
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 08:43:44 AM Pintoarabian, good point; and I guess it can be hard to tell, particularly if people lie.
I would draw a (movable) line. Not forgetting that my objection is not 'having to re-home', its the threat of 'PTS' if a home or customer cannot be found. Financial difficulties, illness and stuff like that on one side and 'busy doing other things on the other'.
Whilst I appreciate that people sometimes don't want to describe their personal circumstances, that's fine. If people need to find a new home for their horse, then so be it. But those who say that a perfectly healthy horse will be killed, by them, if a new home cannot be found, then I think the the audience who hear the death threat deserve a good reason why.
"blackmail that is the current trend is truly heinous"
pintoarabian
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 9:52:11 PM Pop, sorry to hear of your loss. How would you distinguish between a genuine plea for help and one where the owner just wants to get rid of the horse, making up a sob story? It's not always clear cut and some people are skilled at weaving a web of deceit. I know of one verified case of someone who tried to sell a pony because her granddaughter was dying of leukaemia. It was a scam and she accepted countless deposits from the soft-hearted who were taken in! No-one ever got the pony and the granddaughter did not have leukaemia. Others are skilled at mud slinging. Therein lies the problem with genuine people in need biting the bullet, 'coming out' and asking for help. A minority on here will be quick to condemn, even the genuine appeal. It happens, seen it several times. Many members on here just wouldn't risk that kind of humiliation. No disrespect here to AL as the community here is simply a reflection of society and what happens in real life. I have no doubt that Rui and Paula have issued warnings from time to time, have removed posts or locked topics. Rui's reminder that it is the horse that matters is very apt.
Like you Stuart, I have bought horses at sales and several unseen, especially from abroad. My foundation mare was bought from a sale as a 2 year old, a fantastic stroke of luck for me. I went to buy tack and had no intention of buying a horse but, when I saw her, I knew I was not leaving without her. I am sure she was a stud 'cast-off'. However, they lost and I won the jackpot! All of the horses bought unseen were as good as, or better than, described. I still have ALL of them. People who know me know my horses always come first and stay for life so any hint that I would need to re-home any would mean things were genuinely bad. People who don't know me don't know that and would speculate. That's where Chinese Whispers kick in and the damage that can do on a public forum is quite scary. It happens because there's a small minority who just can't seem to help themselves, or get some kind of vicarious pleasure from the misfortune of others. There are others who will seek to profit from the misfortune of others. How many cases have there been of genuine people lending horses only to discover them sold on or sold for slaughter? Cases like these do not help genuine people to come forward when they are facing adversity and having to make life-changing decisions. Dishonesty within the horse world is renowned.
Although I wouldn't, as stated, bare my soul on here, it would be for those reasons. Most people on here are very caring and responsive to horses in need and many horses have been saved from an uncertain fate as a result but, at the same time, we've all seen reputations annihilated by a few 'hotheads' when things get heated. There are places I might turn to for help if it was ever required, places where I know the entire community would be supportive, understanding and non-judgmental. Hopefully, that will never happen but, if it did, Stuart, I think you will know where that might be!
Fee
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 8:42:06 PMI believe that to be irresponsible horse ownership, but most of all, when I hear of a perfectly healthy horse being threatened with death because they are just in the way it causes me great anguish.....my throat goes dry, my hands shake, my heart pounds and I sweat (yes, I sweat! yuk!) I hear in my head the shot go BANG, I hear the horse drop, and then the sound of the pulley, and the body being dragged across the ground, the head collar hanging on the gate post, the remains of the last meal ..... and all because he became inconvenient and the owner couldn't be a**ed.
Pop, my heart turned over and sank when I read this. I have to let everyone on here know that you recently lost your gorgeous and beloved Jess.
When people threaten to PTS before trying every avenue possible to find their horse a home, even those avenues that seem impossible. It deeply hurts those of us who have tried with every ounce of energy and love to keep our horses with us but we had to say goodbye and our hearts will always be broken. Just want you to know this...
Fee
Pop
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 8:01:13 PM Its very sad that Pointoarabian feels "If it happened to me, would I come on here and bare my soul? Not on your life!" because if 'IT'happened, then it would be a heart breaking, genuine plea to get help for horses. And every possible help would be deserved, and given, and i have seen it done on this forum without criticism (quite the opposite in fact), or anyone being in any way scary.
However, when the owner has not fallen foul of 'IT' and has merely found other things more interesting to do, has made no real effort to find a home or a solution, but instead goes down the route of the 'mind numbing, heart string tugging blackmail that is the current trend is truly heinous'.
When a genuine problem is shared and help asked for; people feel sad for the plight, will go to great lengths to help, not least taking care of the horse whilst the owner gets back on their feet (which I have seen on here) and reflect on how easy it could happen to any of us. It really could happen to any of us.
How easy could it happen to any of us that we just needed to do other things and stuck up a quick advert saying if nobody takes my horse then hes just going to have to die (although I love him very much)? Really, how easy is it for that to happen?
I believe that to be irresponsible horse ownership, but most of all, when I hear of a perfectly healthy horse being threatened with death because they are just in the way it causes me great anguish.....my throat goes dry, my hands shake, my heart pounds and I sweat (yes, I sweat! yuk!) I hear in my head the shot go BANG, I hear the horse drop, and then the sound of the pulley, and the body being dragged across the ground, the head collar hanging on the gate post, the remains of the last meal ..... and all because he became inconvenient and the owner couldn't be a**ed.
Then I'm going to be scary, very scary indeed.
stuart
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 7:56:02 PM pm. me Jackiedo...... a home could be found if you can circulate details?
jackiedo
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 7:40:29 PM Stuart, I feel awful for a horse I know who is for sale (non Arab) ISH. I can't believe his owner is in such a situation that she needs to part with him. He jumps, he hunts, he does cross country, rides in a snaffle and brill on the roads, and I mean BRILL with lorries, earth movers etc. It is so sad that horses just can;t find homes.
stuart
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 6:05:33 PM
Originally posted by pintoarabian
Sadly, I think that there is a very judgmental minority on here who are too quick to condemn, so I can fully understand why most people would not risk a public 'stoning' by openly airing their difficulties or changes in circumstances, particularly regarding horse welfare. It is very sad that people feel compelled to 'opt for other avenues of disposal' rather than turn to what should be a supportive and understanding community. I am certain that the majority would be very supportive and understanding but won't get involved in the unpleasantness that can erupt sometimes.
However, such behaviour is not exclusive to this forum. I have read much, much worse on another, non-Arab, forum where certain cliques seek out their prey like a pack of hyenas. Bullying is rife. They think it is funny to humiliate and patronise their victims and they gloat over their 'kills'. There are ALWAYS two sides to every story but, no matter how many times history repeats, some people never learn and go in with guns blazing, time after time, often making a complete fool of themselves in the eyes of the silent majority who witness their 'holier than thou' rants. The wary learn to 'steer clear' of certain members and their sycophants.
Making ends meet is getting harder for almost all of us and this is not going to improve in the foreseeable future. Bad fortune can affect anyone at any time. Aren't we supposed to be only three pay packets away from homelessness? There, but for the grace of God, go I! If it happened to me, would I come on here and bare my soul? Not on your life!
Great post Pintoarabian - I have bought smashing horses both from sales and sight unseen - caveat emptor - this mind numbing, heart string tugging blackmail that is the current trend is truly heinous,as a site so much that is good is flagged up, and, indeed allows 'in need' owners and horses to find 'placement'.The "but there but for the Grace of God go I" will always have a 'go'it is inevitable - the rest of us may be able to help......... if you don't ask - you won't get..... Onward......
rosie
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 5:00:03 PM ' Are we really that scary?' -
Yes, I think when anyone on here posts about an Arab being entered for a sale, I think some peoples comments are really awful and downright hurtful!
And just because someone buys or sells at a sale doesn't mean that the horse needs to be 'saved' or that the buyer has 'saved' it.
Yes, I beleive that when the posts come up about Arabs at sales it is helpful as people on here may be potential buyers & can rehome the horse but after the slating some peole have received then maybe they will dispose of the horse via other means?
