| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| navaho621 |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 10:06:13 AM
Ive found myself in a rather awkward situation regarding a horse we recently took on, she was free to good home/permanent loan, which ever you would like to call it, though no loan contract has been drawn up.
Its all very complicated & long winded, so i will try & keep it as brief as possible, it involves 3 other people, for arguments sake i shall call them A, B & C, A is the original owner, B owned said horse between A & C, who is the person ive had the horse from...hope that made sense?
I'll be blunt, the horse was in an appalling state when we took her on from C, they had had her 6 weeks & had apparently rescued her from B, ive since spoken to B who has said she was a mess when she had her from A, but since she has been with C she is in a an even worse state.
Anyway, ill be here all day at this rate, the general jist of this story is not one person will hold there hands up & admit to being responsible for the state this mare is in & they all blame each other. Now here is my problem, we took the mare on on the understanding she had no illness's or vices & and that once back to her full weight she would be fine to ride. It has now come to light that the mare has navicular, she is extremely spooky out riding & you can not leave her alone at all or she goes nuts, she is also at present unsound. Since she has been with me a week & a half she has piled on the pounds & is looking ALOT better. The thing is how would you feel giving the horse back to someone who is potentially guilty of neglect? It doesnt sit comfortably with me, but neither can i afford to keep another horse who is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I keep saying i need to stop being so sentimental, but its not how i am. I really dont know who to believe with all the different stories ive been told, its like an episode of Eastenders!
Anyway, the point of my post is what would you do? Do you hold on to a horse that isnt really any good or do you be brutal & hand it back & hope to god your doing the right thing? Im so confused!
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| proctorclaire |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 9:52:14 PM
I would keep her or hand her over to a horse charity. If you handed her back to any of the said people and you found out something had happended to her you would never forgive yourself. My horse is in a bad state due to shocking homes in the past and I am so glad I have her now, as she has home for live and can finalyl start living a nice horsey life with me forever. I would rather put myself in hundreds of thousands of debt than get rid of her. |
| navaho621 |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 7:41:08 PM
Thanks once again for the replies, C is coming to see the mare in a weeks time, so im going to have to do some serious straight talking with him & get to the bottom of the ownership issues & try & figure out what is best for this mare. I will keep you all updated. |
| Paresh |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 3:19:20 PM
oh god how i feel for you as I am in a similar situation, I was given an ex racer who I was also told would be able to come back into full work, and to cut a long story short he isnt, he has had surgery for kisssing spine, he is agressive to wards other horses int he field if they invade his space, he has already kicked a friends arab and broken his leg(Wind Wizard) I need to do the deed and have this horse PTS but he is a young horse at 9yrs old but I am not willing to pass him onto anyone else, and I will do th horable deein one day in the near future. I hope you get it sorted out soon |
| barbara.gregory |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 11:53:28 PM
You could tell A, B and C that the mare needs some expensive veterinary treatment fot the navicular and a few other problems she has. Tell them that if the mare is signed over to you that you are prepared to have any necessary treatment done but otherwise they will have to have her back; call their bluff and you will probably get her signed over. You can then decide the best way forward. With lots of tlc and good food she may turn out to be a lovely mare. She is never going to be a world beater but then neither are 99.9999% of horses and she just might turn out to be your best friend.
Fingers crossed for a happy ending for you and the mare.
Barbara |
| RiffRaff |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 10:42:43 AM
Poor mare i bet she was really loved at some point in her life at least you have her now and im sure what ever the decision you make it will be the right one and you will always have support here no one will judge you.
As already said try and get ownership sorted asap you dont want to pay the money to get her sorted then they take her back and sell her, seen it happen so many times  |
| precious |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 10:26:57 AM
so sorry to hear the situation you are in. I really would do as others have said find out who legally owns the mare you or ABC.
In regards to what they have said she has got or hasnt got and does, i would find out for yourself for def rather than the mares fate being decided on what if of ppl you cant trust.
It is an expensive job getting a horse sound i know from rebel who sadly i cant afford to keep now due to repaying vet bills, but im in talks with the blue cross to have him at least he will be safe.
At least you have got the mare and she is safe while she is with you xx
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| Smiler |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 10:13:09 AM
completly agree with tahir on the fact that the owners may well want her back to sell on once looking good ,
i once had a horse on long term loan she was a bag of bones it cost me £700 to get this horse right over the winter come summer she looked fantastic then i get that call i need to sell her i said i would buy her give me a week till pay day oh no you have till tomorrow no money then the horse is gone so unfortunatly i lost this mare after putting so much hard work into her so be warned it does happen oh and this was supposed to be a friend !
go back c and get them to sign the mare into your name if you have the FTGH add still available then print it and show then say your not happy and want her in your name what ever you do dont let them take her back though already you can see a difference well done |
| rhoni |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 09:40:27 AM
Wise words Tahir, never thought of that! |
| Tahir |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 09:34:49 AM
To be brutally honest, you really need to get ownership sorted before you can make any decisions for this sweet mare. She is obviously thriving under your care BUT whoever owns her is likely to reclaim her once she is looking good and then re-sell her for a few quid (her previous owners sound just a little bit mercenary to me JMO).
Please don't let them hold you 'over a barrel' purely because you are emotionally committed to this mare. YOU make the decisions and hold them to ransom, ie. charge them livery unless they hand over the paperwork for her, afterall she was offered free to a good home..... remind them of this.
Not sure this helps much, but I think you need to be strong for her to ensure a happy outcome. |
| Callisto |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 06:57:46 AM
I'm with Rhoni on this one - since you obviously can't believe the idiots who between them allowed the poor mare to get into this state, try and find out for yourself how much is actually true, try a magnesium based calmer if she does prove to be spooky (or was it the owner?). She's improved so much so quickly, sort out the ownership situation and then make the best choice for her and for you. Good luck and well done for removing her from her previous situation. |
| rhoni |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:50:51 PM
Awww, don't feel pants :(
First off, great improvement in just a week. Second, it could be that everything from the navicular to the separation anxiety is pants too - what's the diagnosis on the swollen leg? If she carries on improving at this rate you'd be able to find out for yourself if she's as problematic as you've been told. Stop worrying about the idiots A, B & C and get her sound and try her out. She may well surprise you! Re the spookiness, as she has been malnourished it would be worth putting her on a magnesium-based calmer - magnesium deficiency is known as a cause of erratic and spooky behaviour hence its widespread use in calming formulae. Good luck with her and above all else try to formalise the ownership thing - then the choices and options are between you and her, not numpties A, B & C! |
| navaho621 |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 11:37:25 PM
Well ive just read all the replies & find myself feeling more pants than i did earlier 
Id like to clear a few little things up, as my initial post was possibly not that clear, regarding her unsoundness, it is actually down to a swollen hid leg, nothing to do with her navicular at the moment, though i have only been told by person A that she has it, & to be blunt the woman lives in a bit of a fantasy world & has told me so many lies i dont know what to believe. As regards her stressing on her own, ive seen no evidence of this, but then ive not put her in the situation where this could arise, all of the information ive had regarding the mare is from A.B & C, nothing ive verified for myself, but then ive not needed to test any of these things out as she is, for obvious reasons, out of work.
The whole loan / free to good home thing is as clear as mud, i responded to a FTGH ad & was then told it would be a permanent loan arrangement, but then no paper work was drawn up, it was just a case of bring the trailer & take her away. Regarding her passport, its more a case of what passport (yes i know before you all tell me off) person A originally said she didnt have one for her & then suddenly after person B sold her person A started claiming there was a passport! So who knows on that one!
The amount of lies & contradicting stories ive been told over this mare you really would not believe! And i really do want to do whats right for her, but at the same time my bank balance says i need to do whats right for myself & my other horses, i was told she was only offered FTGH or loan, whichever, because they didnt have the time or space to keep her & sort her out, i went there knowing i was taking on an underweight horse...not a suitcase full of baggage to boot. You see the problem i have with it all, person C actually seems quite genuine & his other horses look ok (though they were rugged), persons A & B have put alot of doubts in my mind & it has started making me ask questions of person C, they both blame person C for the state of the mare. Anyway i wasn't going to post pics of her, but to be honest i would rather you saw what i was dealing with, all that i ask is if you do know the mare or persons ABC please dont point them in this direction, i should ad that she is not an arab, which is why i purposely posted this topic on here, as im pretty certain none of her previous owners have any interest in arabs whatsoever!
This is the day she arrived.
This is her about a week after she arrived.
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| phoenixbruka |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 9:33:05 PM
If the mare is in pain and you cant keep her retired and pain free I'd establish legal ownership and the have her PTS
At least then the poor thing suffers no more and you dont have to worry about her being sold on / passed around .
In a perfect world we'd all keep them all til they dropped in the field peacefully in their sleep, but realistically... its not a perfect world 
susie |
| rosie |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 4:52:13 PM
Does the mare have a passport? If so, who is the last owner on it?
Agree, that you need to find out who legally owns the mare then you can work out the situation from there.
What an awful situation for you to be in. |
| Kazzy |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 2:15:05 PM
Is the poor mare still in a bad way weight wise? If so why dontyou contact ILPH and tell them your story and they might come out and have a look and sign her over to you anyway if they think you can give her a good home, then you can do with her what you want. Is she in pain with Navicular yet? if not try and re home her as a companion, but whatever you do dont let her go back to A,B or C!!!!
Janet |
| MinHe |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 2:02:02 PM
I would suggest you talk to HAPPA, they will probably be able to advise you on how you should proceed and will probably take the mare in once the legalities have been sorted.
Keren |
| Pasha |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:48:23 PM
What an awful situation to be in!
I agree with what a few others have said - she would be better off PTS than face an uncertain future! Poor little mare x |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:44:53 PM
I wouldn't have the mare PTS before the ownership was sorted, but surely you cant offer a horse free to good home, and then say it was just a loan... in my world its 2 very different things! |
| Arachnid |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:33:35 PM
Theres nothing to say that people who wont spend money on horse feed wont spend money on lawyers and I suspect that you may be in trouble if you have someone else's horse destroyed. Can you imagine the 'loan home gone wrong posts'? You are all right of course, proof of ownership is the key.
PS thanks for not shooting me down people even though I dont agree with you |
| Montikka |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:27:52 PM
Great advice above, establish ownership. Its tough, but she was supposedly loaned to you for life (for better or worse) and you'd just become 'D' in this story if you returned her, carrying on the sorry loop, of passing her on. I know you're not a harsh person or you wouldn't have posted, it is a dilemma, but, if you returned her, could you sleep at night knowing what you do about A B and C? It's very tough and I feel for you, but handing her back wouldn't be 'doing the right thing'. |
| littlearabians |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 1:18:55 PM
I might be a bit brutal... but I would say if she was free to good home, then she should be yours... however I would not try to re home this poor mare.. I would get her PTS... My mares has always been PTS (well not true but sounds less harsh the shooting them) when they got too old, or got very poorly... even though I had people wanting to re home several times, and many wanted the last one, but she still ended her days before the cold weather came only 20 years old.
There is so many horses free to good home, that end up having a terrible old age... and this mare sounds like she was got high odds of ending in the wrong home. |
| geegee |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:48:41 PM
I just wanted to say that I completely agree that if the only choice was to send her back to A, B or C, then she would be better off PTS as sad as it is.....
A,B & C are clearly not up to the job of looking after a stuffed toy, let alone an animal. |
| Crusaders Angel |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:41:06 PM
I have to agree with Rhoni, I don't post very often but having read how difficult it is to find good homes for easy going straight-forward horses I think you are going to find it difficult to find someone to take on the mare if you can establish that she is legally yours.
Companion horses are meant to be just that - companions  . They are supposed to keep your horses company so they are not left on their own, they should not be ones that take up ALL of your time so you don't have time to ride or are a liability to either themselves, other horses or other people.
Speaking from experience (I got conned into buying a completely deranged horse who regularly tried to attack me & other horses) I can honestly say that the best decision I made was to have Indi PTS, despite all the abusive phone calls from complete strangers and having to leave a fantastic livery yard due to bigoted, small minded opinions of a few people.
I have been able to rest easy knowing that his erratic and unpredictable behaviour will not put anyone else in danger, he will not be passed from pillar to post, that he will never be mistreated or abused again and that he had 6 months with me (the longest time he had spent in a home in 3yrs due to the aggressive behaviour)eating his head off and finally, a dignified end.
It may seem harsh but then reality is. It would be lovely if you could find the perfect home for her but the reality is they are very,very hard to find. With the best will in the world people will take on a challenge and, more often than not, find that their ego was bigger than their experience which is what happened with Indi.
I wish you well, and hope for the mares sake that it can all be resolved with her best interests at heart.
Big hugs to you as I know how tough a decision it is and all credit to you for taking the mare on in the first place.
Lucy |
| BabsR |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:29:43 PM
It may help your case if you get a veterinary report and prognosis, along with cost of treatment which is necessary for the navicular
Faced with this, the formerly irresponsible owners, be it A,B and C, or all of them, may well be only too happy to sign over ownership. Once you have that info in writing, you are then able to make the right decision for this poor unfortunate mare.
Please, please do not hand her back to any one of these neglectful folk!! If all else fails and you are unable to place her in a forever home and Blue Cross or similar, are reluctant to take her due to her unsoundness and other problems......the kindest decision would be to give her the Summer lots of TLC and then PTS. Hard decision, but the most responsible and you will have the peace of mind knowing she will never be neglected or pushed from pillar to post, ever again.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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| rhoni |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 12:13:46 PM
The problem, surely Arachnid, is that the owners have quite obviously totally failed to live up to their responsibilities and poor Navaho621 has a conscience! Quite honestly the mare would be better off PTS than sent back when it's obvious that not one of her (possible) owners has done anything other than starve her and punt her on to some poor genuine unsuspecting individual :( |
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