| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jingo |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 11:17:14 AM
I posted a thread on the showing forum about Operators Licence which many need to transport horses.
Well thankfully I have been awarded my Operator's Licence as well as a Certificate of Professional Competence, Transport Authorisation Certificate and finally a Truck Specification Certificate.
So thankfully I can transport my own horses knowing that if I am stopped I have all the correct paperwork and am legal!!!! 
It's a nice feeling |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Roseanne |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 6:42:02 PM
Jude if I were you and anyone TOUCHED that lorry with its fabulous pictures of Toman on it, I would run them over!! |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 4:42:18 PM
You are right there Jude, I think some will need to start keeping books or they may come unstuck
Totally agree that in your case you were right to get the paperwork, there are others that will also need it if they haven't already got it, these are mainly 'professional' horse transporters, livery yards, and show-producers, all people that move horses for 'profit' so the people like me, who do not have a yard full of horses which are trained/produced/bred for 'profit'( in my dreams) will not need the above to be 'legal'.
Azeer - Transporting a friends horse with yours to a show has always been 'dodgy'. Most people know that if you get pulled over you NEVER say you are being paid for doing it, even if they are only spliting the diesel costs, I would also advise people to check their insurance policies as some DO NOT cover the vehicle if there are any other horses on board apart from your own
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| Jingo |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 3:00:48 PM
Thanks Angel - think some of our "hobby breeders" need to start keeping books.
Transportation of animals by hobby breeders* – where income source
does not exceed expenses of hobby.
This thread was never started to "panic" the one horse owner taking their horse to shows - I feel happy I have brought it to light and that everyone can make sure they have the correct paperwork for the job they are doing.
In my case - lol making a profit!!!! My husband would love to see the day I do that.  But we investigated at the highest level and found that we needed the paperwork we have now obtained to be legal.
I couldn't risk the result of fines and confiscation of my vehicle |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 1:05:42 PM
Spoke to VOSA and as I thought, Driver CPC not needed as I am not using my vehicle for hire or reward (Transporting horses to shows etc.. for a living) just my own personal use.
As for the NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys or long), please read this booklet from DEFRA. Hopefully this will put stop to any unnecessary panic and people rushing out and spending money on courses they really do not need
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/documents/transport-leaflet.pdf
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| Jingo |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 10:59:17 AM
Another thing to be aware of - this for studs/showproducers etc. who show abroad. If you take your lorry abroad to shows you will need an "International O Licence" as well as one for here.  |
| mogwai |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 07:44:53 AM
Thanks for that  |
| azeer |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 07:33:26 AM
Well from the information I was given and have read even if you take a friends horse to an event you would fall under the NPTC transport regulations - so all I owuld say is be careful - if you get stopped know your rights and know your law to make sure you are covered. For me it is simpler to take a £47 multiple choice test than risk a fine of up to £5000 and the risk of your vehicle being impounded! |
| Callisto |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 9:30:03 PM
Ros, as far as I can tell I am in the same position as you:- we do not need to take another test to tow our horses to an event/stallion/hacking somewhere different. We do not need the Cert of Competence for the Transport of Animals (short distances), we should have the horse's passport with us when we travel it. Our horses are kept for pleasure, we do not hire them or our transport out, we do not breed for profit (or at all at the present time). We have a trailer and a 3.5 purpose built horse truck.
The pink photocard bit of your driving license will spell out what you are entitled to drive/tow. |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 8:33:43 PM
Thats what I was told Linda, the following is very straight forward to me. Azeer can you tell us who told you that we do need this??? Will call VOSA tomorrow to make sure that what they told me (post above) was correct, if it now isn't I shall try and find out exactly what is
Copied this section from City & Guilds website for NPTC -
“1. SCOPE, APPLICATION AND EXEMPTIONS
Scope
1.1 The Regulation covers the transport of all live vertebrate animals (but excluding man) within the EU Community that takes place in connection with an economic activity. The vertebrate family includes all creatures which are mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians or fish.
1.2. Those involved in an economic activity will include farmers, livestock hauliers, those who move horses in connection with professional riding, livery, stabling, those involved in commercial pet breeding or racing (e.g. dog racing), or those moving animals used in films, zoos and leisure parks.
1.3 The Regulation does not apply to the transport of animals:
•Where the transport is not in connection with an economic activity; or
•Transport to or from veterinary practices or clinics under veterinary advice; or
•When the animal is an individual animal, is accompanied by its owner or other responsible person and is fit for the intended journey; or
•Where the animals are pet animals accompanied by their owner on a journey.” |
| mogwai |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 6:23:32 PM
Ok, so for me, the brainless one. What will i need to transport my horses in a trailer to local shows, pleasure rides, vets and possibly to stud in the future. I'm not a stud, don't stand a stallion or sell stock, just average joe with horses for pleasure.
Oh, i passed my driving exam in 1991 (i think!).
More money!
Ros |
| Callisto |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 5:41:10 PM
As far as I can tell by googling it, you don't need the NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys), unless you are transporting horses for economic reasons rather than pleasure. Unless I've missed something of course.... |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 2:46:13 PM
Hi Jude
From what VOSA told me I don't need any other certificates to transport my horses, maybe because I have a HGV licence? As you say looks like there may be some confusion then. Will get back to VOSA and ask the question again. I can't see that breeding as a hobby, as in maybe one foal every 2 years as I have done, would mean that I am a commercial business. Some of the big studs, Silverdale, High Tor, etc... obviously are classed as 'businesses' but the likes of me and many others work full time and do not earn soley from breeding/standing stallions at stud?
I would say that if you advertising/breeding horses and stand stallions at public stud every year then that is classed as commercial and if you very rarely breed/advertise and don't have a stallion at public stud its a hobby....
MMmm... Me going to investigate and will get back to you with answers |
| Jingo |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 2:26:11 PM
Angel I think there is confusion here -
Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of passenger or goods – for personal use
So as long as you are not using your horsebox for commercial reasons, as in, to earn a living/transporting horses for payment, you don't need a CPC
But if you breed horses, stand a stallion at stud - according to VOSA this is classed as commercial use - so this will affect quite a lot of us
What you will need Angel in transporting your own horses is a NPTC as per what azeer posted. |
| angel2002 |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 1:37:11 PM
There are two CPC's, one is a CPC (O'Licence or Operators Licence) which a company needs to run commercial vehicles, it is usually held by the transport manager or owner of said commercial vehicles, the other is a Drivers CPC which is needed by drivers of commercial vehicles.
The Driver CPC is mainly for LGV and PCV drivers who drive professionally. The following might help to explain -
http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/uploads/legislation/CPCBooklet.pdf
As an example, since 1996 I have had a Class 1 HGV licence so I have till 2014 (I think) to take my driver CPC but I ONLY need to do this if I want to use my licence to drive HGV's for a living. My current horsebox is 7.5t and I don't need a driver CPC to drive it because I only use it for my own personal use.
There are a number of Driver CPC exemptions associated with this Directive one of which is -
Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of passenger or goods – for personal use
So as long as you are not using your horsebox for commercial reasons, as in, to earn a living/transporting horses for payment, you don't need a CPC
Also note that if you do drive lorries/buses professionally all week and then drive your horsebox commercially at the weekend you may be breaking your drivers hours so be careful you don't get collared for that by VOSA
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| Jingo |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 11:14:20 AM
pathannay - the only thing your link doesn't mention regarding Operators Licence is that we as stud/breeding and selling horses would more than likely need an "O" Licence - so it would be best to contact VOSA and make sure and GET IT IN WRITING if you don't need one.
I was told that "being blonde" or "vague" will not wash with the authorities.
Remember we advertise our stock/stallions etc etc etc - big brother is watching us lol
edited to say - agree with Azeer most of you will need to get your CPC if transporting even your own horse to and from events etc. |
| azeer |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 09:47:49 AM
Hi Flosskins - it is a multiple choice paper set by the National Proficiency Test Council www.nptc.org.uk. After trawling through the regulations and speaking to defra and other people I eventually got to the NPTC who are based at Stoneliegh and a very helpful lady gave me details of my nearest test centre.
This is the name of the certificate!
013051 NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys)
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| LYNDILOU |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 09:30:16 AM
Oh well just another reason to give up |
| pathannay |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 09:27:52 AM
I have been abit confused (doesn't take much!!) about these new regulations and decided to Google it!! The link below gives quite a good breakdown of what it all means!!
http://www.horseboxregs.co.uk/Support |
| flosskins |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 08:59:24 AM
how do you go about getting that azeer and what does it involve? |
| azeer |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 07:27:00 AM
The other thing that nearly all of us need - whatever you drive is the welfare of animalsin transport certificate of competence which I am just taking. If you drive 20 miles each way i.e. a total of 40 miles in a journey and or you drive for 8 hours in a journey you need this. It costs £47 and lasts for life, but the fines are expensive if you dont have it. |
| Jingo |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 07:20:20 AM
Delyth what people don't realise is that it affects under 7.5 tonne as well as trailers. As I said on the other thread - if you own a stallion, for example, and stand him at stud and take money for it - you are not doing it for a "hobby" and will more than likely need a licence.
Agree it is definately going to affect a lot of people showing this year so better to sort it out now than have to pay the huge fines. |
| Delyth |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 10:26:30 PM
Crikey - thats alot of dosh !! So anyone with a 7.5 tonne or above has to have one.....it's going to affect alot of people showing this year :( Huge fines if caught without !! |
| Cinnypony |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 9:39:17 PM
My understanding is that if you got your driving license before a certain date you can tow trailers (I used to spend alot of time towing catamarans) - otherwise you need to pass a separate trailer towing test...
Sorry don't know the official terms/dates for the above.
Susi |
| Jingo |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 9:30:09 PM
A lot of sleepless nights, no grey hairs as yet and around £1,000 (I think) - but my licence lasts for 5 years. |
| Delyth |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 6:49:07 PM
Can I be rude and ask how much that all cost ?? |
