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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 11:17:14 AM
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I posted a thread on the showing forum about Operators Licence which many need to transport horses.
Well thankfully I have been awarded my Operator's Licence as well as a Certificate of Professional Competence, Transport Authorisation Certificate and finally a Truck Specification Certificate.
So thankfully I can transport my own horses knowing that if I am stopped I have all the correct paperwork and am legal!!!! 
It's a nice feeling
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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flosskins
Silver Member
345 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 2:03:41 PM
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| i am struggling so much to work out whats legal and whats not with horses, especially the trailer! if my traile, horse and car don't weight more than 3500kg i can tow it, as long as the box and horse in total don't weigh more than the car. but i can't find a weight for my car - the web says 1700kg which seems far too much for a 3dr rav4?? |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 2:54:57 PM
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Lyndilou you may need one but to be on the safe side I would suggest you contact VOSA to make sure.
You have a stud, stand a stallion at stud and sell stock - so maybe you would need one.
There are links on the thread I started on the showing page. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 6:49:07 PM
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| Can I be rude and ask how much that all cost ?? |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 9:30:09 PM
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| A lot of sleepless nights, no grey hairs as yet and around £1,000 (I think) - but my licence lasts for 5 years. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 9:39:17 PM
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My understanding is that if you got your driving license before a certain date you can tow trailers (I used to spend alot of time towing catamarans) - otherwise you need to pass a separate trailer towing test...
Sorry don't know the official terms/dates for the above.
Susi |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 10:26:30 PM
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| Crikey - thats alot of dosh !! So anyone with a 7.5 tonne or above has to have one.....it's going to affect alot of people showing this year :( Huge fines if caught without !! |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 07:20:20 AM
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Delyth what people don't realise is that it affects under 7.5 tonne as well as trailers. As I said on the other thread - if you own a stallion, for example, and stand him at stud and take money for it - you are not doing it for a "hobby" and will more than likely need a licence.
Agree it is definately going to affect a lot of people showing this year so better to sort it out now than have to pay the huge fines. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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azeer
Silver Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 07:27:00 AM
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| The other thing that nearly all of us need - whatever you drive is the welfare of animalsin transport certificate of competence which I am just taking. If you drive 20 miles each way i.e. a total of 40 miles in a journey and or you drive for 8 hours in a journey you need this. It costs £47 and lasts for life, but the fines are expensive if you dont have it. |
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flosskins
Silver Member
345 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 08:59:24 AM
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| how do you go about getting that azeer and what does it involve? |
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pathannay
Gold Member
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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azeer
Silver Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 09:47:49 AM
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Hi Flosskins - it is a multiple choice paper set by the National Proficiency Test Council www.nptc.org.uk. After trawling through the regulations and speaking to defra and other people I eventually got to the NPTC who are based at Stoneliegh and a very helpful lady gave me details of my nearest test centre.
This is the name of the certificate!
013051 NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys)
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Edited by - azeer on 09 Mar 2010 09:54:20 AM |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 11:14:20 AM
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pathannay - the only thing your link doesn't mention regarding Operators Licence is that we as stud/breeding and selling horses would more than likely need an "O" Licence - so it would be best to contact VOSA and make sure and GET IT IN WRITING if you don't need one.
I was told that "being blonde" or "vague" will not wash with the authorities.
Remember we advertise our stock/stallions etc etc etc - big brother is watching us lol
edited to say - agree with Azeer most of you will need to get your CPC if transporting even your own horse to and from events etc. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
Edited by - Jingo on 09 Mar 2010 11:16:38 AM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 1:37:11 PM
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There are two CPC's, one is a CPC (O'Licence or Operators Licence) which a company needs to run commercial vehicles, it is usually held by the transport manager or owner of said commercial vehicles, the other is a Drivers CPC which is needed by drivers of commercial vehicles.
The Driver CPC is mainly for LGV and PCV drivers who drive professionally. The following might help to explain -
http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/uploads/legislation/CPCBooklet.pdf
As an example, since 1996 I have had a Class 1 HGV licence so I have till 2014 (I think) to take my driver CPC but I ONLY need to do this if I want to use my licence to drive HGV's for a living. My current horsebox is 7.5t and I don't need a driver CPC to drive it because I only use it for my own personal use.
There are a number of Driver CPC exemptions associated with this Directive one of which is -
Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of passenger or goods – for personal use
So as long as you are not using your horsebox for commercial reasons, as in, to earn a living/transporting horses for payment, you don't need a CPC
Also note that if you do drive lorries/buses professionally all week and then drive your horsebox commercially at the weekend you may be breaking your drivers hours so be careful you don't get collared for that by VOSA
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 09 Mar 2010 1:39:25 PM |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 2:26:11 PM
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Angel I think there is confusion here -
Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of passenger or goods – for personal use
So as long as you are not using your horsebox for commercial reasons, as in, to earn a living/transporting horses for payment, you don't need a CPC
But if you breed horses, stand a stallion at stud - according to VOSA this is classed as commercial use - so this will affect quite a lot of us
What you will need Angel in transporting your own horses is a NPTC as per what azeer posted. |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 2:46:13 PM
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Hi Jude
From what VOSA told me I don't need any other certificates to transport my horses, maybe because I have a HGV licence? As you say looks like there may be some confusion then. Will get back to VOSA and ask the question again. I can't see that breeding as a hobby, as in maybe one foal every 2 years as I have done, would mean that I am a commercial business. Some of the big studs, Silverdale, High Tor, etc... obviously are classed as 'businesses' but the likes of me and many others work full time and do not earn soley from breeding/standing stallions at stud?
I would say that if you advertising/breeding horses and stand stallions at public stud every year then that is classed as commercial and if you very rarely breed/advertise and don't have a stallion at public stud its a hobby....
MMmm... Me going to investigate and will get back to you with answers |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 5:41:10 PM
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| As far as I can tell by googling it, you don't need the NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys), unless you are transporting horses for economic reasons rather than pleasure. Unless I've missed something of course.... |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 6:23:32 PM
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Ok, so for me, the brainless one. What will i need to transport my horses in a trailer to local shows, pleasure rides, vets and possibly to stud in the future. I'm not a stud, don't stand a stallion or sell stock, just average joe with horses for pleasure.
Oh, i passed my driving exam in 1991 (i think!).
More money!
Ros |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 8:33:43 PM
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Thats what I was told Linda, the following is very straight forward to me. Azeer can you tell us who told you that we do need this??? Will call VOSA tomorrow to make sure that what they told me (post above) was correct, if it now isn't I shall try and find out exactly what is 
Copied this section from City & Guilds website for NPTC -
“1. SCOPE, APPLICATION AND EXEMPTIONS
Scope
1.1 The Regulation covers the transport of all live vertebrate animals (but excluding man) within the EU Community that takes place in connection with an economic activity. The vertebrate family includes all creatures which are mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians or fish.
1.2. Those involved in an economic activity will include farmers, livestock hauliers, those who move horses in connection with professional riding, livery, stabling, those involved in commercial pet breeding or racing (e.g. dog racing), or those moving animals used in films, zoos and leisure parks.
1.3 The Regulation does not apply to the transport of animals:
•Where the transport is not in connection with an economic activity; or
•Transport to or from veterinary practices or clinics under veterinary advice; or
•When the animal is an individual animal, is accompanied by its owner or other responsible person and is fit for the intended journey; or
•Where the animals are pet animals accompanied by their owner on a journey.” |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 9:30:03 PM
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Ros, as far as I can tell I am in the same position as you:- we do not need to take another test to tow our horses to an event/stallion/hacking somewhere different. We do not need the Cert of Competence for the Transport of Animals (short distances), we should have the horse's passport with us when we travel it. Our horses are kept for pleasure, we do not hire them or our transport out, we do not breed for profit (or at all at the present time). We have a trailer and a 3.5 purpose built horse truck.
The pink photocard bit of your driving license will spell out what you are entitled to drive/tow. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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azeer
Silver Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 07:33:26 AM
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| Well from the information I was given and have read even if you take a friends horse to an event you would fall under the NPTC transport regulations - so all I owuld say is be careful - if you get stopped know your rights and know your law to make sure you are covered. For me it is simpler to take a £47 multiple choice test than risk a fine of up to £5000 and the risk of your vehicle being impounded! |
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 10:59:17 AM
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Another thing to be aware of - this for studs/showproducers etc. who show abroad. If you take your lorry abroad to shows you will need an "International O Licence" as well as one for here.  |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 1:05:42 PM
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Spoke to VOSA and as I thought, Driver CPC not needed as I am not using my vehicle for hire or reward (Transporting horses to shows etc.. for a living) just my own personal use.
As for the NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Transport of Animals by Road (Short Journeys or long), please read this booklet from DEFRA. Hopefully this will put stop to any unnecessary panic and people rushing out and spending money on courses they really do not need
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/documents/transport-leaflet.pdf
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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I'm Legal Are You??
