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T O P I C R E V I E W
sazzlepants71
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 2:17:54 PM hi, I picked my copy of H&H today and was delighted to read this in the news about the plans to bring back 'traditional' in-hand showing classes! It quotes 'some breeders have become critical of the 'modern' way of showing arabians, in which the horses head is positioned artificially high with the hindlegs out behind the body when standing up for a judge'
Wessex Group Arabian Group summer C Show will be introducing 'trial' classic classes well done Wessex!!! It also goes on to say statement : Show organiser Felicity Harper said : we hope these classes will redress in some way the unfortunate impression many of us have of the arabian Horse because of the manner in which it is shown' Classic classes will encourage handlers to show in a 'quiet and relaxed manner.The classes have been sanctioned by the European Arab Horse Show commission; both classic & modern sections will be assessed by the same judges.No horse entered for one style will be eligible to be shown in other. Each will have its own qualifiers for the European Conference of Arab horse Organisation A show at Towerlands..
theres plenty more in the article, it makes such positive reading I think - I just had to share! what great news for many of us on here who have felt so strongly about the 'frozen pose' for so long! see you in the ring???
sazzle
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Roseanne
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 12:00:49 PM T think it was a good article too Sazz.
I need the option because I couldn't run like the professionals in a million years!!! Lol
And I think the picture they used, even if it is of a professionally trained in-hand horse, shows it to be pretty relaxed and confident!
It's just as well Horse and Hound didn't use some of the pictures that we see of horses just about to leap to the moon in their superhype!
sazzlepants71
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 11:54:15 AM oops goodness! when I posted this I hadnt meant this to upset or have a dig at anyone - I think Roseanne's last comment rings true - that there is a option for people that dont feel comfortable showing their arab in the american way. True, not everyone can make wessex but if you can then maybe there really IS something for everyone which is very rewarding when you get to the showground after a long journey - enjoy the day! one other reason I shared this story is because surely it potrays how important the 'outside' world see us - showing is a professional pastime it shouldnt be ridiculed and we shouldnt get laughed at! I for one was so impressed by the expertise of handlers at my first visit to Towerlands last yr the communication between horse and handler is brilliant yes , there one a few I wanted to take the whip off!!(the impatient ones!) But most are kind and very skilled amazing to watch - however as we know not everyone understands why we show the way we do - I personally want to be able to hold my head up ( not my horses) when I say I own a arabian horse and I show - and not get people rolling their eyes and tutting!( we all know the type!) so do I think it was a good article good for the breed? Yes - communication is the way forward and perhaps we will more admired and understood - as my boss says ( he is a racehorse owner & breeder ) 'the damage is done for arabs' I hope he is wrong sazzle x
alistair leslie
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 5:47:25 PM The pen can be a double edged sword . What may have appeared to be a positive PR release from Wessex has come across as a negative against the Arab owner in general One should be careful.
Roseanne
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 5:07:01 PM I wouldn't have said it's a witch-hunt. I saw this discussion just as another option for ordinary Arab owners who aspire to do well in showing but can't, or don't want to, show in the modern American way.
laura
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 4:55:11 PM it is indeed ironic because people who choose to show in the modern way have all been typecast here. its a shame that there is a witch hunt going on for a group of people when the "modern" show scene accept tha others may wish to be different.
lottieherts
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 3:59:29 PM The word I was looking for was SPIRITED! The Arabian is more SPIRITED than other breeds! Laura, your mare looks stunning (I did not get to The Nationals last year) and isn't that just irony for you? American trained, used for an article on traditional showing. Come on guys, you have to smile about that one!
laura
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 3:44:17 PM the horse in the horse and hound is our mare VDS Vandalosia. she as national mare champion in 2009 shown by rhodri jones. she was bought and trained in the usa so to be honest is far from your traditional shown arabian horse. but i can say she is unbelievably easy to look after not scared of showing or her handler rhodri and loves to show off. she is not able to do a sedate trot as its not in her.
so final thought is its rather amusing that a professionally trained horse was used in the article that has got so many people excited.
alpacastoo
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 3:14:28 PM I am afraid it is a long time since I have been to an Arab Horse show, I have seen the occasional class at the Royal Welsh, but being with non-horsey people at the time always get dragged off well before I am ready.
I would just like to say that showing arabians (or anything else) is a responsibility in many ways - in this case I am referring to the breed itself. People will use show winning stallions at stud, naturally, so I would have thought it important that all the traits he possess (phenotype and genotype) are good ones. Perhaps if the horse is shown in, dare I say it without getting shot down, an un-natural pose, then the judge could ask the horse to be stood up in a different way, or trotting in a straight line, or whatever the judge feels he/she needs to get a true reflection of the horse's qualities. When I showed many years ago I was always told that a well behaved horse was a must and that the judge could ask the handler to leave the ring if the horse was badly behaved. I don't mind seeing an Arab hold is head high - or seeing a stretched neck - but I would also want to see that same horse in a more natural pose. Trotting on a long lead reign in a controlled manner. Does this happen? As I say, not been for a long time, but I have a feeling all that might change this year (more about that in another posting) but I am on AL to learn from others. Just love Arabians!
lottieherts
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 1:42:23 PM All those that cannot make Wessex show then why not attend your local county show this year, thats if they still have Arab classes. The county shows are less likely to have horses presented in a 'modern manner' and you will be supporting the breed by ensuring the County shows include in hand Arab clases in the future. It will also allow opportunity to show your Arabs to the other horse owning public in the way you want to. To voice what others have said here, you are free to present your horse at any show, any way you see fit. As for the shouting, most shouting at regional shows is in support of particular horses and not every horse gets shouted at and its not so deafening that that all the horses in the ring 'freak out'. I went to 4 C shows last year and did not see any of the competing horses looking upset at the cheering and clapping that took place for a good trot. I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with the modern way of showing so long as the horse is not abused. The Arabian is more excitable (intelligent/sensitve - whichever word you wish to use) than other breeds and this is why some may appear 'hyped up' in the ring but you must remember it is not always a whip that makes them like that. You can tell the horses that enjoy it and rise to the occasion to those that have it hit into them. I think the modern way allows those horses who love showing off to do just that. Personally I find the modern way of showing more interesting than the traditonal method. Horses for courses!
mair
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 12:16:41 PM Keren luck as nothing to do with it,Are you implying my priorities are mixed up are you saying i do not feed my horses just show them,and we do not support the breed You said Rabid Baboon but as always you are back pedalling blaming some nice old lady, Why are you always knocking people you need to take stock Many people make big sacrifices to show , No Holidays, Hair Do,s Old bangers of cars and much more you should PAUSE before you make these statements, And fit helpers, We have support from Friends, Family, Vets, Farrier, Dentist all fallen under the spell of Arabian Horses, But most of all Abigail Waterman, we have supported and nurtured Abi and gave her the chance to compete from a young age, No matter what the result we kept faith, against the Pro`s and the Amateurs, There are many like her out there begging for the chance, You say you have the Horses with the ability to win, Try finding a Handler/Rider you can nurture, And you can show your Horses any style you like. Mair BBA
Clutha
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 12:11:32 PM As a totally non-showing person, & my only gripe when I tried was the danger to my horse & myself, surely the style of showing evolves over time from methods of presentation that people see winning the class. Entrants are generally trying to win (sren't they?) so mimic & exagerrate what appears to gain the most success. As such I would question whether it is modern showing that has kept the shows going, or an evolution of a perceived successful style taken to its apex? As anything gets taken to more extreme levels, there comes a point where there is a change in direction. Just look at fashion, things are cyclicle, a fashion starts, gets taken to the extreme then changes direction etc. I'm not saying it will happen immediately, as if top level success is only gained using a particular type of pose then people will still use that style. But as more use a natural pose, & some start to gain success, then others will also use it & over time style at top shows may change. There's nothing wrong, it just style undergoing natural evolution. It may become the dominant style or fade before success is gained at a high enough level to influence others, but change is normal. As long as horses are happy, everyone is safe & the judge can honestly assess each on its merits, then just let everyone enjoy what they do.
dilly
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 08:11:39 AM Our horses are shown in the modern way and are shown by professional handers, AT NO time have our horses been shanked, whipped or pulled about, so please do not think that all 'modern' horses are shown in this way. Mair is right, if it had not been for the modern showing over the years i doubt if alot of our shows would still be alive today.
MinHe
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 11:16:33 PM
Originally posted by mair
Wessex is close but we will travel many miles around the UK supporting shows,Will you??? Do you think getting off your chest warrants calling people Rabid Baboons, And maybe people showing Horses the "modern" way have kept these shows "alive" over many years. You will argue we have killed the Traditional showing, but no you can show your Horse how you like, As for the shrieking a little story i was cheering for one of my Horses and "was told off" in a very public manner,you are upsetting your Horse and others. Several weeks later i went Arab racing and the person who told me off had a Horse running she was screaming and shouting and her Jockey was whipping away i approached to remind her she had told me off for cheering,Her reply this is racing, Tell the Horse that my Horse was enjoying itself, I wonder if the race horse was, or the second place Horses owner was upset about her shouting ruining her Horses chance, Mair BBA
You are lucky if you can afford to travel all over the place to show - this is not an option for everyone who supports the breed! I support my local shows WHEN I CAN AFFORD TO - but when the choice is between feeding the horses and indulging in a pleasure activity, I know where *my* priorities lie.
The 'baboon' comment came from a very nice lady at a county show up here in hunter country, so you can see what a lovely image they have of the Arabian breed and those associated with modern showing practices thereof!
For the record, my "nearest" Group show is about 90 miles away, and as I have no helper but a disabled OH, distances like The Hand are simply not practical for us.
Those of you with fit helpers, local Group shows and income to burn should perhaps pause to consider how lucky you are.
It is also highly questionable as to whether those who support the 'modern' way of showing have in fact kept shows going - or have brought them to their knees by driving the majority who do not like this style away from the show ring!
Keren
Ziadomira
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 10:40:47 PM The horse in the H & H article. They did not mention putting a picture in the article. I emailed the news editor, the writer phoned me up, I sent her details of what we were doing and she wrote the article. Does anyone know who the horse is? Head maybe a touch high but he's not being shown to the judge like that so he would be OK in the class as he looks relaxed.
The classes will be arranged so that one set of horses will be out of the way before the other type goes in. Hopefully no one will get jumped on or frightened.
The main ridden HOYS classes will be in the morning with the senior pure bred in the afternoon. We have tried to arrange it so there are not too many clashes. There will also be sports horse classes and three dressage tests. Hopefully sufficient variety to give all a reasonable selection to choose from.
Zia
Roseanne
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 10:20:15 PM I am scared that this may be seen as the 'test' case and that if sufficient entries are not forthcoming, the argument to scale down the hype in the most ambitious of the showing classes will be lost, and the case that there IS now no alternative to the American way of showing in-hand will be confirmed.
I have to measure how many shows and classes I do with my 'show' gelding because of limited financial means and because of that, I concentrate on my love which is ridden showing. However I totally support this class, and thank Wessex for their enthusiasm in getting it approval and support from the AHS, and putting it on. It doesn't, unfortunately mean I'll be entering it, as I would probably be at their show for a ridden class.
I don't want the outcome of this (because of the location etc) to be the justification for anyone saying that 'the traditional method was tried but it failed because no one wanted it'.
I think Arab showing will lose nothing by the hype and the American frozen pose being toned down.
moatside
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 8:14:42 PM Very well said zenitha
Zenitha
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 7:53:02 PM I think some of the responses on here may have been misconstrued ? The `way I read the comments, some people were GENUINELY regretful that they weren't based nearer to The Hand, because they really would have liked to attended. Some members of the Wessex group are clearly disappointed that the show is not based more centrally to their region, which is fair enough - unfortunately we are not all in the position to be able to travel long distances to shows (which does NOT reflect on our dedication) due to other commitments eg young family, business etc. The organisers have also explained why the show has been based at the Hand, which seems to make sense.
I think the idea of offering 'traditional ' classes is to perhaps encourage those that would not normally show to 'have a go'. Showing in the traditional way perhaps opens the door to owners to show their own animals, rather than needing a 'professional', as the whole affair should be more relaxed. Many people are unhappy with modern showing techniques, or maybe have animals that would be intimidated by the atmosphere, so this is a golden opportunity for them. I'm sure there are many people out there who would prefer to show in the traditional manner, but up to now how felt they would be out of place in a modern show class, which is why they don't attempt it !
Whilst I don't have a problem with the modern way (barring shanking and over stretched or intimidated horses), I do think the traditional way offers an easier assessment of conformation. Whilst overstretching is not such a problem in this country, look at the states where stretching is used to disguise all manner of faults
I think it is wonderful that we have been offered this opportunity, I really hope it is well supported, but I also hope it doesn't lead to a 'rift' between those who choose to show in the different ways - there is no need ! We all love the same thing don't we ?
moatside
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 7:33:41 PM My worry would be that Pearl would find it a huge amount of fun!! She is really laid back (only about 65% Crabbet so not high enough for "sedate" classes)and I much prefer the nice, calm Pearl - I doubt I could keep up with her at full pace without needing an oxygen tank at the end of the first run up!
Avonbrook
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 7:27:47 PM In 2003 (I think) I did exactly that at the Nationals with a 2yo colt because I knew that he would find the general carry-on funny. And I made the point doubly by wearing my jacket, carrying a cane and with him in an in-hand bridle. As expected given that I was taking the rise somewhat we were well down the order but I was glad on the way out to be able to pull over quietly to allow a VERY well known handler who was getting towed by a completely mind-blown baby to pass safely. And we were followed back to the lorry by 3 seperate people saying how much they liked him.
However, I have a 4 year old filly of different breeding that I haven't shown in-hand because she is insufficiently Crabbet to enter their classes and I know she would be thoroughly upset by the noise and carry-on. If she isn't at stud we may well be supporting the traditional classes at the Hand!
Rowena
Btw, I have a part-bred who last year as a yearling colt was intent on towing me over to the main ring when all kicked off just as he was starting his trot-up next door because it all looked so much fun ! Mind you, he had already coped with being chased by someone's badly anchored gazebo in the lorry park...
rosie
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 6:52:50 PM Apologies. Yes, I suppose some horses can find the atmosphere upsetting.
I guess what I'm trying to say (not very well) is that some people complain about the way the modern show scene is, but I was trying to explain that you can still show your horse in the traditional manner if you want to without copying everyone else. I didn't take into account the atmosphere ?
moatside
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 6:07:29 PM I have a backbone My girl is VERY green and I think she would be upset by the general hype and atmostphere associated with the modern style of showing - horses for courses - for me I prefer calm and sedate (far too long in the tooth for flat out running and twirling).
rosie
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 2:26:31 PM I can't understand what the big deal is about this? - anyone care to explain? As far as I am aware, there is no rule to say that when you go in the ring at present you HAVE to show your horse in the modern method? Why don't some of you get a backbone & if you want to show your horse in the traditional way then do so, you don't have to follow what everyone else is doing! And yes, the few shows I go to, the horses are shown by me, in a natural calm way (Hopefully :)).
Clutha
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 1:57:10 PM I have only shown in a 'modern' class once, when my girl was 5 years old. We came last, which was expected being Crabbet I knew they would never look at her as she isn't 'exotic' enough for modern tastes, we went for experience & boy did we get it!
Aside from the fact that over all the classes (which were mixed gender) the judge only picked grey colts / stallions, the behaviour of the animals was abyssmal. One colt was so randy the handler asked me if I'd let him cover my mare (for free - no thanks I have standards) to settle him a bit so he could be controlled. It wasn't my girl upsetting him as she wasn't even in season. When in the ring people were constantly circling very close to us, I swear in a deliberate attempt to upset us. Then to cap it all a horse were were following ( a very good distance behind as by this point I didn't want to go near anything), suddenly ran backwards very fast, totally out of the handlers control who was holding the very end of a long lead, & nearly double-barrelled me in the head. They didn't even have the manners to apologise for putting my life at risk.
I have never taken her in another showing class since, but did take her daughter in a Crabbet (so traditional style) last year at the Bicton C show. In the ring with other Crabbets, all calm & mannerly, being shown for the lovely responsive animals they were. It was a great experience for both of us. From here on in I will happily show traditional, but would never put foot in a modern class.
In terms of dress, whatever makes them look gorgeous, is safe & comfortable for them.
karen d
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 09:34:58 AM I think its a fantastic idea, and would definately be supporting the classes, BUT as a wessex member i cannot understand why it has to be held at a venue that is almost the furthest point away.
Surely a venue that is CENTRAL in the WESSEX wegion would be pleasing to all the members!!?????
The journey to the hand for us in the New Forest is a dreadful one, all across country on awful roads before we even get to the M5.
Such a shame as i can see the classes not being very well supported, then the 'modern' show people will say 'i told you so'!!!!!
moatside
Posted - 15 Feb 2010 : 06:18:20 AM For me the venue is 145 miles away entailing a journey of at least 3 hours, with a very green mare who has only travelled 3 times it is just not practical or realistic to subject her to that amount of travel for 1 class. I am not adverse to travelling to shows (and frequently do with my Welsh girls) but the cost/time inplications and the welfare of my girl all have to play a part in my decision as to where to go. Equally, whilst I accept that I can show my mare in any class in the "traditional" manner to be in a class where the majority of the exhibits are being shown in the "modern" way may not suit her (as she is a baby).
well done Wessex!!!
goodness! when I posted this I hadnt meant this to upset or have a dig at anyone - I think Roseanne's last comment rings true - that there is a option for people that dont feel comfortable showing their arab in the american way.
(the impatient ones!)
)
between those who choose to show in the different ways - there is no need ! We all love the same thing don't we ?
, and would definately be supporting the classes, BUT as a wessex member i cannot understand why it has to be held at a venue that is almost the furthest point away.
