| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Delyth |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 10:00:51 AM
I posted this on Reality Check but feel that has very much run its course and unfortuantely become an arguement rather than a discusssion :( So we begin again !!
How do you all start a new colt.....does anyone use heston bales of straw to the line the mare against to stop the colt running down the side ?? When they still go down the side and try and jump on the head, do you try and push them back round, try and just turn the mare, pull them off and try again ?? Do you ever pull a young horse off ?? At what age would you use a chifney ? Do you just turn out in a paddock and let the free for all begin ?? Or do any of you get someone else to do it ;) Personally I love the latter !!
We've had good results with certain horses using heston bales who had got into bad habits. Ansata El Salaam liked them cos he leaned on them when he'd finished !!
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Vicki M |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 11:03:16 PM
Fascinating subject.
I wish I had the time to get into all this. Just the experience would suit me.
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| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 9:17:45 PM
I'll look at the make of it tomorrow, I was VERY lucky, having been given it on a sort of permanent loan, it was a proper laboratory centrifuge, takes 16 x 30ml tubes. It would have cost a fortune in its day. They can be horrendously expensive, you need one that will take at least 10ml and preferably 20ml or larger tubes as its too fiddly otherwise. And a lot of re spinning to fit the whole collection in! I wish I knew how to 'make' boys or girls respectively. Also I think a lot of people would say the same when wanting that ONE special foal from a very special mare/stallion. |
| susan p |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 9:12:16 PM
LOL Leigh Ann at the winnie the pooh bottle  xxx |
| Delyth |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 8:16:50 PM
Now you've got me wondering. I've been looking at centrifuge.org.uk - which one have you got ??? Very confusing :/ |
| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 7:49:23 PM
I must say that there is definate data on seminal fluid being bad for SOME sperm, and in those cases removing it has extended and enhanced certain horses semen. I must say that I have first hand experience that it works. I knew of one stallion thats semen lived only hours un centrifuged and days if seperated. The filly and colt thing does work to a certain extent as one is heavier than the other so can be seperated ( not sure which way round it is).
I was told that the gel being the last part of the ejeculate that the stallion produces is there to 'plug' the uterus (not literally) and also act as a barrier against another boys advances. Hence the reason for removing it when collecting so it doesnt get mixed in. There were some very knowledgeable people at UMM Qarn, shame it isnt still here. They were my first experiences with AI. |
| Delyth |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 7:09:48 PM
There was speculation of the seminal fluid actually being bad for the sperm and it actually killing it but I could never get my head round that cos it's what nature produces for the sperm ! Gleannloch Farm used a centrifuge many years ago to seperate semen into 'filly' and 'colt' sperm and it worked - they used the wrong half apparantly and got all colts !!
One of the girls at Umm Qarn wrote a paper on gel and it's properties as a treatment for infection in mares I think. I often wonder what happened to Catherine at Umm Qarn she was very knowledgable, she went to work on a TB stud farm in Oz I think ?? |
| TOOTHLESS |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 4:54:34 PM
33yrs ago, I started my first horse, a 2yr old pure arabian colt with a mare that stood like a rock until he found the correct place. A few years later I would let him loose in the paddock with the visiting mare, and he would wait until I had hold of the front end of the mare, and only when he felt I had control of her would he approach to cover her. He did this in a very deliberate way and if she squealed he backed of at a rate of knots. I think he learnt the hard way as a result of me allowing others to stand him and use him, and even though he was beautifully mannered they abused him. On one occasion I visited him at the stud he was at and discovered that the tissue between the lower left canine tooth and the first molar had been stripped off the bone. This happened because the Know All, Stupid, supposedly experienced, stud owner handling him used a " bull bit " on him (because he refused to cover a mare)despite me telling him that a leather halter would suffice. That person is still, around, still passing himself off as an expert, still "breeding or trying to breed the perfect arabian", and still as pig- headed as he was all those years ago.
Talquah Taaj ( Allbreeds pedigree) was a dream to handle ( it was just him, me and the mare).I had no fear of him hurting me, or the mare. I make him sound like a dull none entity, but take him to a show and he was awash with presence (it was in his lines), but always controllable,I could have used a string. Sorry , I got sidetracked |
| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 4:47:02 PM
Gel fraction and seminal fluid are not the same thing. I use a filter to remove the gel fraction, but a centrifuge to remove the seminal fluid, which is the watery substance the sperm is actually swimming in. Then the sperm are removed from the test tube in a very highly concentrated state and reintroduced to extender only, thus giving the same 'dose' but in extender instead of the original fluid. This is mainly for shipping purposes. A similar method is also used for freezing which is why straws have a much higher concentrate of sperm and you don't need as much volume. |
| Gerri |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 10:15:23 AM
Wow this is the best thread I have ever read seriously interesting educational and thank you so much for the pictures, it is brilliant, Fab Topic and everyones posts are so informative, thank you so much for sharing it |
| pintoarabian |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 9:21:43 PM
Google Twemlows AI Centre. That's where I did mine. Course is 2 days and is quite intensive but well worth the effort. You will learn how to collect, evaluate and transport semen and how to inseminate a mare. You have to take a practical and a written exam to gain your DEFRA approved pass certificate. The course prepares you well for this so it's not as daunting as it seems. |
| MinHe |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 9:08:35 PM
This really IS an educational thread - in all sorts of ways! I am finding it most informative and useful. Is it possible to have contact details for the course?
Delyth, you are a little tempter, but I already have one handsome Irishman, so I'm not allowed any more!!!
Keren |
| trinity |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 9:05:52 PM
Obviously I have a weird outlook on life. I work with our stallions all the time - ride, handle on the ground but one thing I hate doing is covering with them. Give me the mare to hold anytime. Much prefer that. So long as I trust person handling the stallion I'm fine with the mare. Sorry, digressed slightly there.
We have a lovely mare who behaves impeccably for the boys. She taught Akhira and she will teach our warmblood and Highland boys. We also, always use covering boots on the mare and wait until the stallion is definitely ready before allowing him to mount. Akhira likes the foreplay, which not all mares do, so we have learnt to tease him as much as the mare so that he just hops gently on board. |
| leighann |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 8:46:37 PM
Originally posted by Delyth
Does your collection bottle have Winnie the Pooh on it too......Leighann !!
ha ha - well spotted
old baby bottles have lots of diffrent uses
I go to the local chemist and buy KY jelly in bulk and when i tell them its for my horse i get the "oddest" look godness knows what they think i do with it |
| Delyth |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 8:33:34 PM
Does your collection bottle have Winnie the Pooh on it too......Leighann !! |
| pintoarabian |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 8:20:55 PM
We use filters on the collection bottle (as seen in Leighann's photo) to prevent the gel getting as far as the little swimmers inside. I have also done the AI course and can thoroughly recommend it. Passing it also permits you to inseminate mares using AI legally. Our dummy mare is also home made and our boys seem to enjoy 'her' just as much as the real thing. Our boys all took to her without any problems and you don't have to worry about her lashing out with her hind feet. Two foals from our very first collection are due next month. |
| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 6:52:32 PM
You are lucky to have such a fertile boy Delyth! I also try to get away with one insemination per cycle, although one mare has to have two inseminations or she just doesnt take, vets and I don't know why! |
| Delyth |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 6:14:48 PM
I must admit my own girls just get the semen, no extenders just as nature intended !! I haven't got anything fancy to remove the gel I just get a syringe and it sucks off like a giant snot !! We do tend to scan quite alot and I try and get away with just one insemination/cover per cycle - we've been pretty lucky. I also had a mare a few years ago that was allergic to loads of the extenders, she caused big headaches. Incidently, I collected from GR Amaretto once and just drew off the gel and put it in the fridge. I took some out daily just to look at and to learn and it was still good after 5 days - he was a fertile boy :) |
| Pashon2001 |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 5:30:29 PM
I've used raw semen at home, extended or centrifuged to get rid of the seminal fluid, then reextended. The reason for getting rid of the seminal fluid is in some cases the sperm are actually killed by it and so it can increase the stallions fertility. I also have a mini lab to do all this. Especially if I have several mares coming in heat within a day or so as extending it means less strain on the stallion.
In answer to an above question I have never seen a stallion become frustrated by using a dummy only, I really think they are only interested in one thing and don't care if it is inanimate!! I've trained all mine myself, with some initial experienced assistance.
It IS easier for me to collect rather than naturally cover, and I can perfectly well cope with a natural covering, but why when I don't need to? And my boys are NOT allowed to charge at the dummy any old how! Heaven forbid! They are taught manners lol! |
| leighann |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 4:40:51 PM
Originally posted by Delyth
Do you use extender in semen that you are using on your own mares ie at home ??
Yes - Always as we can then split the doze for more than one mare and it improves conservation and helps maintain the fertility of the sperm aswell as nourish it, also gives you the benefit of storing some for the following day if required  I use Inra 96 |
| Centaur |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 4:11:30 PM
Excellent thread. Did you dummy train your stallions yourselves?
Angela |
| Delyth |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 3:04:43 PM
Do you use extender in semen that you are using on your own mares ie at home ?? |
| leighann |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 2:23:15 PM
Ha ha.......very similar to our DIY Dummy
I too am enjoying this topic as its nice to hear other's experiences on the subject.
Like Delyth i completed the AI Technician's course and found it fascinating at the same time very intense but when you get home and set to work on your own that's when you really start to learn.
We collect fresh semen in the morning from our stallion and by lunchtime can have the mare in the stocks inseminating them it really is a satisfying feeling knowing you can collect and inseminate to create a new life.
We have a look at the semen under our microscope its amazing to watch them zapping around 
Here are some photos
Raw semen just collected
Then extended & Ready to use
Under the microscope
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| Gerri |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 12:19:05 PM
Thank you for the advice, it is really interesting. I live in France most of the time and its hard enough ordering a delivery of anything let alone discussing AI with the vets here, so I will certainly look into attending a course in the UK, that way at least I will have some idea what to do and what the vet is expected to do also this is such an interesting topic, it goes to show you are never too old to learn (meaning me of course) something new |
| Delyth |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 09:44:26 AM
I've been on the AI technician course so do most of mine myself. When shipping in from other stallions some owners insist a vet does it. If the vet is there they help to collect and inseminate whatever really - you'll find it fascinating.
I went on the BEVA course and even if you don't want to go on to inseminate it is so interesting I'd recommend to everyone. They have some of the very best vets to talk to you. We had Juan Samper, Jonathon Pycock, Chris Shepherd, Martin Boyle and if they don't know its time to give up !! I think West Kington are doing a breeding seminar at the begining of March. That place is well worth a visit if you are thinking of freezing your stallion (semen !!) or going down the AI route, the set up is so professional.
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| Gerri |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 09:14:50 AM
I have to say this is an amazing post!!! I have never ever seen or been a part of semen collection, so I am totally out of my depth here but find it really interesting, do you have a vet on standby there while the semen is collected? to impregnate the mares straight away or do you do it yourselves? the reason I am asking is I had planned to bring someone in this spring to collect semen from my boy and was booking my vet to do the impregnation as my boy is 18 years old and a bit stiff behind and thought that AI might be the best route to go. |
