| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| honey |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 11:58:37 PM
just really wanting to highlight the problem with treating horses with steriods theres a high risk of laminitis as a side effect from the treatment. So if ever giving horses steriods cut there hard feed to a min and change to hay if possible. we are currently facing a dilema with our mare(tbxcob) due to laminitis which she originally got 8 years ago while on steriod treatment the vet never told us to cut her feed out. shes came back from loan lame Shes had xrays yesterday and her right foot is not good and rekons her pedal bone rotation is now unrepairable, shes lame at min on the right corner but he thinks enevitably she will just get worse and shes been retired from work at 10yo. corrective trimming won't be an option we would consider as last time she was in soo much pain it was heart breaking to see her like she was, so its a wait and see changing her enviroment to eliminate the risk of uneven or stoney ground so her shoes can come off and her feet to grow out(feet are neat)if she gets worse we will have her pts as we couldn't see her in the pain she went through three years ago. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| xsara |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 11:00:57 PM
Hi thanks for your stories and hope i thought i would give a little update. She seems alot happier in her self and not just as sore as she was i turned her out and she seems alot more comfortable in her self and at first instance you wouldn't even know she was lame even cornering alot better, but she still is not 100% sound. I had the equine touch lady work on her muscles again tonight and she was much improved from the first time she seen her but she still had pain in the left side of wither area and her right tendon in her shoulder which brought alot of heat to the area, so a bit more box rest and see how she is. I plan to get a couple of more trims to bring her feet in line then taking her shoes of and putting her out to the field for the summer which will hopefully solve the problem o and i have ordered a copy of that book so looking forward to the reading |
| loosefur |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 9:13:44 PM
Hey Cheryl - I forgot that was your log in name! Yep same Nick. He's the only qualified Field Instructor in the UK so wherever he goes I have to go to get my field training in! For the rest I'll be heading over to the continent.
I have taken Ged's shoes off - back in August but just after I broke a bone in my foot so wasn't able to work him. His foot structures are very weak, years of shoeing have taken their toll, but once he's back in work I'm hoping they'll strengthen up and improve quickly. The Easyboot Gloves are a good fit on him though so you'll hopefully see him out and about this season, along with Haj and new boy Sid. All happily barefoot! |
| Jumanji |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 8:23:27 PM
WOW ,Angela,i read somewhere that you'd done training in the US ,but did not realise it was with the man himself.Well done you.Nick Hill,he's in Inverness(is he the same Nick) an yr ,well a long way away.Janes pony Ticket is a real success story for Nic.Exactly as that book describes is what Ticket endured.
Nick has been trimming my youngster for bout yr and half now,he did 504 km last yr barefoot,this yr he will take on a novice season,will be very interesting.
Out of interest did you take Ged's shoes off?
Regards Cheryl'
Honey,How is Honey doing???????????????
|
| honey |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 6:20:19 PM
i agree in the past we always took shoes off if lame as the way forward. i have told my sister to invest in some boots for her and take shoes off completely. All my lot are barefoot, gizzy competes on all terrain and has never had shoes on, and my stallions near 11 an also bare foot all his life!. |
| loosefur |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 3:42:14 PM
What a great story Jumanji - much kudos to you for taking the plunge... it's not easy when vets/farriers are telling you one thing but your gut is telling you it's just not working. Jaime Jackson's Founder book is amazing, I urge everyone to read it, whether their horse suffers or not, because ALL horses can get lami.
I spent two weeks before Christmas in the US being trained by Jaime Jackson and will be going on to do further training with Nick Hill. Jaime is a lovely person and very inspiring - he recommends things because he knows they work, time after time. Hopefully lots of people will read about your success story and head down the same path. |
| Jumanji |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 11:34:08 AM
Hi all sorry to hear of all these lamnitis stories. Cheryl has been telling me about it and asked me to write a wee note about my experience with nasty persistent case of laminitis with my pony. He had on and off bouts of laminitis for several years culminating in severe attack that led to him being immobilised heart bars box rest etc etc. X rays showed some rotation, souls bulging downwards all very desperate. Despite his obvious suffering - (would recover then go backwards)there was something in him that seemed not to want to give up so I decided having had the Jamie Jackson Founder Prevention and Cure the natural Way book for about a year read & re-read, worried about 'jumping off the cliff' of conventional thought on dealing with this horrible condition that the time had come. I reached this conclusion after having to fib to farrier coming to re-fit heartbars that I had to go to Glasgow that day and would not be there when he came - truth was I could not bear to watch my boy endure the shoes being taken off and put back on again. I called a AANHCP barefoot trimmer, Nic Hill, and he promised to come the Friday. So having paid £90 for shoes Monday paid £40 to get them off Friday! It was a difficult moment but I truly felt that having tried time and again the way I'd been told and got nowhere this was his last hope. After all doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different reslt is the definition of insanity - Shoes off, stable door open, hay nets in stable & outside. Only feed speedibeet & salt/mineral lick - NO HAPPY HOOF etc all got bloody molases in them check labels very carefully! Let him move if he wants to. This was Janary 2007. Day by day he moved a little more. Trimmed every 3 weeks very little at a time - we ended up with huge wierd toes sticking out but the new growth correct and within a couple of months he was sound in boots on ok going and school. Toes took ages to get grown out but to have chopped them would have been too drastic a step which sounds like what happened to the pony here. Also chopping back toes sets up opportnity for infection to get in - ugh! More cider viniger on these feet... Please give the Jamie Jackson book a look. It is a big step but if yo have tried all other avenues what have you to lose. If your horse just has not lost will to live they will thank you for it. I asked vet about what I was doing to make sre they'd still give me pain killers for him whilst we started change and they agreed. Now most impressed with results.
Ticket now sound - spent most of 2008 summer sound and working and all of last season at SERC pleasure rides - except when I get stupid ideas abot trying him on oats - NO, did not work - haylage ? - NO (after recent 2 week attempt the pulse and slight footiness came back - what a twit I am...) He is very sensitive to sugar levels. Think underlying issue with him long term fattness had lead to upset metabolism which is not very sensitive to change. Thats the other thing about this. Try to stip everything out to find what triggers it. Ticket no longer flu vac's as this upsets him, gets tetenus as that kills you qicker that laminitis might. Also on herbal wormers. There are usually alternatives to most commonly used things eg homeopathic etc. Whilst I remember homeopathic pharmacy Ainsworths have been highly recommended to me for laminitis remedies - very helpful and knowledgable. Could ramble on all day - please contact Cheryl if I can be of any help. Also check out safergrass.org lady in US right into - yes title a giveaway - safer grass for horses. My boy problems also related to grazing on ex-dairy cow pastre - eek! Wrong grass, too much fertiliser recipe for disaster. Another good one and great books Pete Ramey - hes so enthusastic about getting these horses sound - his website - hoofrehab.com I think. And yes, going now - also learned Eqine Touch whilst Ticket ill and this really helped him and his poor twisted sore body to heal. Good luck, Jane |
| jaj |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 12:44:43 AM
I've just sent the link for the book to my friend who I'm sure will find it useful, thank you! |
| Jumanji |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 11:28:58 PM
Im sure she will ,in the meantime please get a hold of that book,it truely is an amazin read,you will benefit masses just by reading it.
Also you will understand more about why she is sounder with long toes, and how moving around is very important to increase blood flow and help her.
Best wishes, Cheryl |
| honey |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 10:51:15 PM
thats lovely cheryl i hope she comes on and tells all. i think a lot more is known about lami now and i would love to learn other methods out there that could be the answer. |
| Jumanji |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 10:16:50 PM
Been reading this topic with great interest,
I have a very dedicated friend with a pony willing to fight ,who tried everything with the vet and farrier ,to no avail,and read and did exactly as told in JAMIE JACKSONS book ,PREVENTION AND CURE,from removing his shoes to living a totally grass free life.
He is now starting his 3rd year in his second life.
Still grass free,shoe free,drugs free,wormer free,totally toxin free Living on hay and oat by product pellets.However ,happy and ALIVE.
He lives with me and i watched all of the past 3 yrs with the most amazing interest.
She is a real special person ,who never ever gave up,it wasn't working for her pony ,so she looked for other options.
Hopefully she will join us and come on here and tell you all her story,and hopefully her story might help others.
Cheryl. |
| honey |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 9:53:21 PM
thankyou. She was a little sore tonight with yesterdays trim so shes on metacam at the min and sedalin twice a day, so hope she doesn't get worse. |
| rhoni |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 8:40:18 PM
Just seen this - best wishes to all and hope Honey can prove them all wrong again! |
| pintoarabian |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 7:30:13 PM
One of the treatments our filly was given on the vet's recommendation was 15 soluble aspirin every second day to thin the blood to help bloodflow into her hooves. This treatment went on for many weeks. Bear in mind she is a pure bred and was a yearling at the time so a more mature, larger horse might need more. I hasten to add that this was only one of a range of last ditch things that were tried with her to pull her back from the brink. They worked! By the way, her laminitis was induced by toxins leaking into her system from a bacterial gut infection. |
| xsara |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 6:55:44 PM
Thanks for all your support and stories i have only just found this post lol. Honey is very lame today after yesterdays trimming. I have told helen to have a look at her when she is up. Just one question for you is about exercise, when she had it three years ago vet told us once she was able to get around a bit better to turn her out as walking would increase blood flow and help her. But i read that they should be box rested as as exercise causes even more damage to the foot. Should i be box resting her completely or turning her out in the paddock for a walk. i also found she was lamer on uneven soft surfaces and seemed alot sounder on hard surfaces which i thought was odd but guessed it could be sole sensitivity with the paddock as it is small stones could be the reason and brusing her feet. lol at first i didnt want to believe it was her foot as she was also very sore in her shoulder, neck poll and her pelvis was dropped and rotated and her knees were locked lol so had phsio and chiro at her and then xrays on chiro's advice as he thought lameness was too bad for what he found. .which showed the rotation, but i would trot her up and she would trot up sound up level passage way, and then tack her up take and took her to paddock and hobbled lol but over time has shown it is definitely that foot and she was hobbling up the passage way tonight. So fingers crossed some rest and pain relief and time to adjust it will improve. Thanks again and agree it is a very horrible debilitating disease and not one i would wish on any body. |
| honey |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 11:40:57 AM
we faced this with her three years ago. we had one vet wanting to pts, so we wouldn't let her treat any of our horses, and our blacksmith was certain she would come right, so thats why we trust the farrier over the vet. Theres one vet we took a horse up for a vetting for someone and he told us at the time that he never puts a horse to sleep with laminitis but its about the management and feet trimming that is the key. We mentioned him the farrier we were using and he told us that hes very good and he would be able to sort her and he was right. After the farriers positiveness were determined now to get her back in ridden work even if its just to plod her about on to give her somit to do. we have the choice of breeding a foal but we have decided against it. we don't need anymore horses we have a daughter each from her and we don't breed to sell. |
| Pasha |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 09:15:59 AM
So pleased that there is some hope Honey! Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
My Farrier has been brilliant, but always very cautious with trimming - he says that the foot tells him what to do and he won't touch the sole at all until it's ready! He has seen a few cases where the pedal bone has come through the sole of the hoof and they have gone on to make full recoveries and one of my friends was told to PTS her pony who's pedal bone dropped through the sole, but he was happy in himself and in no obvious distress, so she gave him a day at a time and 6 months later he was back out in the field - now back competing like it never happened!
I honestly believe you have to treat each case as an individual! Pasha was in the box from November to March, out for 2 weeks then back in again until June! BUT he never once looked sad or gave up! He told us he wanted to fight this so we did! If he ever would have shown distress at being in so long, we wouldn't have done it! He still loves his stable and can't wait to come in of an evening, so no harm done, although now he is nearly 23, not sure he could go through it again!
It is the hardest and most bravest decision you ever have to make, to end your best friends suffering and only you can make that for your horse! |
| debs |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 09:05:58 AM
So pleased for you... keeping fingers x'd for improvements! Its very scary as you are 'programmed' to trust the proffesionals,not question them... |
| loosefur |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 08:52:50 AM
I would urge anyone with a laminitic horse (or indeed every single horse owner) to read the book Founder: Prevention and Cure by Jaime Jackson. It's a remarkable book and helped many thousands of suffering horses and helped prevent many thousands of others suffering in the first place. Unfortunately there is a great deal of misunderstanding of the disease and the process of 'rotation' of the pedal bone by vets and farriers, which results in wrong treatments being advised and horses being PTS needlessly. Even horses that suffer hoof slough can be saved and returned to ridden work - it takes a hugely dedicated owner and a horse willing to fight but it can be done, so before you follow what your vet says always get a second opinion and please do read the Founder book. |
| honey |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 10:20:28 PM
thankyou jai. it really is awful, cause you always have the thought did you do everything possible and could there have been hope of recovery. Then when you read other success stories you think just maybe if i left it a while longer maybe they would of become better. Theres nothing worse than seeing your horse in pain, and we have said if she ever got as bad as three years ago we wouldn't put her through it. It takes alot to say good byee, but sometimes its best and theres just no point having doubts as it won't make things easier, but think of the life they have had and that you were part of it. |
| jaj |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 9:42:34 PM
Really good to hear some positive news Honey.
Others stories are just so sad, I'm so very sorry to read them  .
Jen
xx
|
| honey |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 9:07:56 PM
Thanks everyone. The farrier was out today and he said the last farrier has cut her feet back far too much(assuming he meant the sole) He looked at her feet and said hes not surprised in the slightest that the xrays showed huge rotation of the pedal bone with the shape her feets been trimmed, he said even a non laminatic horse would show rotation with a foot like that. so he trimmed them up and her foot now looks normal and said he can't guarantee she will come sound, as he would need to see the xrays to make a better decision, but the shoeing she got today should solve alot of her problems and correct alot of her rotation. Her feet are back to normal to look at and shes not shown any signs of further lameness due to being shod today, so fingers crossed its not as bad as the vet thought. Its just good that we have such a good blacksmith. thankyou for all the encouragement, it was such a blow when the vet came back with his prognosis, but even if she comes back pasture sound, she will once again become a field ornament, she owes us nothing, shes gave us more than we ever imagined we never gave up before and she was alot worse. so we will keep going while shes on good heart and not in bad distress. |
| moatside |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 6:55:29 PM
I echo numbbum & pintoarabian... my B mare was written off by one vet (acute lami due to toxic poisoning) and after a lot of time, huge effort from my farrier she made a good recovery and is now (3 years later) back in work and doing fine. |
| numbbum |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 6:20:49 PM
Just checked back and noticed this. How lovely to read pintoarabian's story of recovery! I wish so much I had NOT listened to my vets (another one who was supposed to be as good as it gets) advice and gone for a second opinion. Please do this for your horse. I know money is a factor, but once they are gone you can't bring them back. Pain relief is also much more advanced now. Let us know how you get on. xxx |
| pintoarabian |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 3:25:18 PM
The story of our filly is too long and still too raw to disclose. However, even with both front pedal bones having a high degree of rotation we ditched our (allegedly eminent) vets and ended up with a vet who pulled out all the stops. A year ago, she was within two days of a heart-wrenching decision having to be made as she was in danger of losing her entire front hooves through the negligence of the (allegedly eminent) vets. Today, she has fully recovered. To see her charging around playing in the fresh snow with her buddies the other day, 100% sound, made me realise just how far she has come in a year. Even when she was at death's door, she never lost her spirit or her will to survive. Even the remedial farrier was astounded at her recovery, remarking on his final visit that no-one would ever know that she had ever had laminitis. I can truly sympathise with all of you that have gone through this nightmare. Honey, I hope that your mare is one of the lucky ones like our filly. |
| rafabreeze |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 2:48:46 PM
Hi - I wasnt going to post anything about loosing my boy last month, but story is similar to numbbum, I will never forget Breeze (Brisingamen Ibn Kazmierek) he had laminitis, and lost the fight in November - its hard to even talk about it, tears are never far away - Georgina x |
