Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:31:43 AM I have known a lot of people who have not had a lot of money but gone to the sales hoping to find something they can afford, and they have bought a horse taken it home and lavished it with love, veterinary treatments etc and these horses have been adored........if they hadn't gone to the sales and had been PTS that would have been the end, so whilst I hate the sales because of the meat man, there are alot of people there that go to buy a horse they otherwise could not afford. Having said that, I could never ever send any of my horses to one because they are my life and as someone already said on here, if ever I got in troube I would also scream from the rooftops for help and sell everything else I could possibly sell to keep my babies with full tummys and good health as I am sure EVERYONE would that partakes in this site
artro
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 12:50:22 AM Hi,purchased a mare (not arab) from a sale a few yrs back now ..went along to sale myself and my friend had our eye on this mare ,for my sister as she was a beginer ,thought she would be just the mare, kind and not bothered by anything any way she did not sell in the ring .so off we went at hight speed after her and sure enough there were laods round her pen . we tried to offer him a good price for her ,but he wasnt having any of it .so we walked away ..only to see her been loaded and RSPCA around the trailer ..we waited and the mare was unloaded and put into another triler .so again we tried to buy her and took his number as he could see we wanted her so was trying to push price up so we walked away ..the little mare left the sale...thinking it wasnt to be, got in my car and set off for home which was only 2 miles down the road ,we were surprised to see the 4x4 and trailer with the mare pulled up in the leyby..and an other 4x4 and trailer pulled up by its side..they started to off load the mare there on the side of the road ..and dropped the ramp on the other trailer ..i was horrofied to see a sheet of aliminum covering a very large hole in the floor of the trailer ..they had clearly swaped trailers because of the RSPCA!.. was putting her back into it for her journey home ..well this got me angry and we made the deal to buy her there and then the thought of her traveling in this trailer was really upsetting ,and made my blood boil!...im glad to say the mare is still with me after teaching my sister to ride and many others ..we were ment to have her that day !!...i have put her on loan 3 times ..she keeps coming back to me cos she woudnt settle !!!..i would never put her back in the sale ring and ive never been to a sale since and never will.again ..she is 20 now ..allthough we fall out on a daily bases she has just cost me a new electric fence system !!!( but i love her ) she is a tuff little mare and dare say it wasnt her first time in the sale ring .. but the thought of any Arab going thru the sale ring ,just saddens and makes me feel sick ! rona x
jameela
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 12:28:46 PM i have bought at least half of my babes at market "tarna" is now 10 and i bouight her as a stunning 2 year old tb at llanybydder..she was the winner of their "show" she will never leave me.."Shadow " was there as she was supposedly a lunatic..( she came from a professional competition yard and they couldnt stay on her back!!) i ahd my farrier to her and once the "infection" was sorted she rides beautifully!!!..my 17.1 "Pepper" also came from there but i bought him outside the ring!!..however he was there as he has stringhalt which was not declared and i didnt know til i got him home!! i have had him 5 years now and wouldnt change him for the world!! ..my stallion "Mr Chumleigh Morner" came from there as a scrappy little thin half starved 4 month old foal..you can see him now on coloured-sports-horses.co.uk i was offered £10000 2 years ago as he produces all coloured but he again will never leave!!..the worst condition animals i have met have been the ones i bought private!!..mind you that doesnt mean there arent poor one at the markets..i spoke to the rspca officer at one sale ..there was the saddest deformed little filly ..starving etc..and when i asked the officer what she was planning to do about it she replied " nothing! it wont be alive tomorrow!!" when i said that was a terrible attitude to have she said would you rather me send it back with its owner to suffer longer until a case could be brought!! i breed coloureds and tbs and my babes are sold privately and i keep in touch but even though i try to ensure them the best homes i cant guarantee that they wont be passed on!!...just live in hope!!
applause
Posted - 30 Jun 2009 : 9:41:00 PM trying to keep my nose out but to me it seems that everybody seems to moan and groan about markets but everbody goes to markets!!!!!!!!!!! We have a brand new auction centre built close to us at Bridgwater and i have to say i've been a couple of times and the horses that have been have been beutifully turned out with huge reserves on them. you are always going to get the little hill ponies that nobody really wants but contrary to popular belief some of these people actually have to breed these for their farming subsides. These breeders are probably in a catch 22 situation they have to breed to collect their government subsides but more than likely now that what they are breeding are worthless in reality. Its always going to be a sketchy subject but if you were wanting a cheap horse don't bother with Sedgemoor! I have to say that personally i wouldn't be able to take a horse to a market but their are just as many awfull private buyers as their are people that buy from markets.
Jamana
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 8:14:50 PM *I think the ascot arab sale is a little different from the Llanybydder types of auctions *
Meat man a frequent visitor to the Ascot TB sales................. many many horses go throught there for 300gns.
Kazzy
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 3:26:08 PM I think we all have sentiments on here PatWW but sometimes *MONEY* comes in the way of it.
I can only afford one horse at the moment (Hubby being in the building trade and work short ont he ground) perhaps at a push I could afford another one but if there was any a time they needed something extra fromt he vets etc etc that costs a lot of money I would struggle. At the moment I can afford to give my kazzy everything he wants and needs, but if another arrived on the scene at this particular moment I would struggle and I DONT AND WONT do that.
My mare came from Beeston many years ago, she was very thin, neglected hardly been handled and was a blo*ody nightmare but I bought her because she had fantastic bloodlines, yes some good bloodlines go through the sales and decent honest genuine people buy these horses but also there are a lot of dealers/slaughtermen type's that frequent these auctions thats why not one of mine would ever have to go through them.
My choice.
Janet
Joto
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 3:25:47 PM Very interesting thread this. I think ultimately ,although people seem worlds apart in their thoughts and ideas all who have posted genuinely have their own horses best interests at heart and do what they think is the right thing to do given the circumstances they find themselves in. Many moons ago I sold a youngish riding mare, about 14.2hh at Beeston, I hope she found a good home, She may have gone into a dog food tin but I doubt it as she fetched quite a bit more than meat money. The teacher [BHSAI]at college where I took my BHS exams a couple of years ago always sells her childrens ponies and her hunters at auction and never privately, less hassle for her apparently. A neighbour here always [until the passports came in] drove her old horses to Turners and sold them for meat to raise cash for her next horse. There is no right or wrong in this. So long as the horses are treated humanely at the auction, transported in good conditions and killed quickly then there is no cruelty either. And those which go on to become riding ponies have as much chance at doing well as a horse sold privately, I've seen many horses sold by friends to a "good home" which has turned out to be less than ideal to say the least. You simply cant say one way is right and another way wrong. Each to their own.
Zan
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 2:54:01 PM
Originally posted by pat ww
Zan i go to Beeston on occassion, and often do ot even watch the horses sold, most are dealers, riding schools etc, with a few private sellers and buyers..
i agree thee are very few who go there for hardship reasons. what is needed is a NON judgemental equine charity set up to rehome the GENUINE hardhsip cases, where new owners are thoroughly checked out and the 'hardship'' of the seller has to be proven.
forums like this are unfortunely filled with sentiments not backed up by action. i still have all the original horses from almost a year ago when pleading for help due to an impending operation.
it is people who are prepared to DO something that is required.
I do what I can Pat. I do back up my sentimenst with action. All my horses have been rescued--- with the exception of Zaharoff who was in a dealer's yard, aged 7, newly backed and having had laminitis---so he could have easily been a rescue pretty soon.
E.g. my Samantha was bought at Stirling sale by a young woman who had had 3 years of once a week lessons at a plod-along riding school so thought she was ready for ownership---of a very sharp, 6 year old ArabxTB who was ridden round the ring in every bit of harsh tack imaginable, which should have given a clue to the "horse expert" friend who was with her. She was also like a hat rack, and as soon as she got some condition on her she became a "problem horse". She was ultimately one of the lucky ones --I picked up the pieces. She's still here aged 20, and they have all lived their days out with me. I know I mouth off a lot, but I do put my money where my mouth is. Which means I have no money for amything else
pat day
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 2:52:28 PM
If I were bordering on the edge of financial ruin, I would still do it, and face the consequences regarding payment after. This sounds like I am some kind of con, I do not owe anyone a penny and never have, so its not a normal thing I would be doing.
I think the ascot arab sale is a little different from the Llanybydder types of auctions.
I do understand the concerns of having healthy animals PTS, It would be the absolute last resort, but my animals are my responsibility, and even selling them is not an option for me.
I have seen lots of cruelty, neglect, abuse, breeding machines, etc, over the years with all sorts of animals, why??
At one time the magority of these poor animals would have been someones much loved pet/animal, what happened?? And this is not just sales I am talking about. Mine will never go there.
So back to subject,
Again, I hope with all my heart the horses that were moved on found kind homes.
navaho621
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 2:21:40 PM The thing is the what are the other options if your back is up against the wall?? Please dont get me wrong i would never ever send any of my horses to a sale & i dont condone anyone who does through choice. But when you have no choice but to part with your horses through financial hardship & there is no help out there what do you do?? You cant give horses away at the moment & even if you do you dont know where they will end up (in my Nans case, who gave her beloved section A away to a lovely home, a few months later was sold through Llanybydder anyway, my Nan was hearbroken!), the charities are full to bursting & they are there to help genuine welfare cases not bale people out who have no where else to turn. What is the soloution? I see lots of people saying you shouldnt go down this road but not offering realistic soloutions either.
loosefur
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 1:42:32 PM
Originally posted by Zan
Here's how judgemental I am---I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone riding their horse round an auction ring with a sad face. There has got to be a better way to deal with the situation than hand your horse over to the highest bidder with no say in who they are, or what is going to happen to the horse in the future.
But you can say exactly the same thing about selling privately. Yes you can to a certain extent 'vet' who you sell your horse to - which in my experience just means if you appear reasonably normal and front up with the money then you're considered okay to buy the horse in question. BUT once you've sold that horse you have no say in anything that happens to them after that - no say in who they sell the horse to and no say in it's future. Should all buying and selling of horses be stopped? Of course not.
For the well handled horse I don't believe an auction is any more traumatic than a horse show - how can a horse tell the difference between a show and a sale? For unhandled horses, horses dragged off the hills or wherever then yes any sort of gathering invloving people will be traumatic.
No one likes to think of horses going to the meat man but it's a fact of life - auctions aren't to blame for the demand for pet food in this country.
Personally I hope I never have to make the horrible decision to sell my horses at auction or PTS. I agree with the old horse it's an easier decision but if I had a five year old that I couldn't sell privately but had to sell because my financial situation was so bad then I think I'd rather he had a chance at auction than be PTS. As I said even if you sell privately you have no control at all over where he ends up or what conditions he's kept in.
However I've nothing but disgust for breeders who breed and breed and breed and then sell their cast offs at auction. But that's a issue with breeding not with auctions per se.
As for buying from auctions I have in the past and would again - in fact if the Ascot Arab sale goes ahead this year then hopefully I'll be there trying to sit on my hands
pat ww
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 12:59:42 PM Zan i go to Beeston on occassion, and often do ot even watch the horses sold, most are dealers, riding schools etc, with a few private sellers and buyers..
i agree thee are very few who go there for hardship reasons. what is needed is a NON judgemental equine charity set up to rehome the GENUINE hardhsip cases, where new owners are thoroughly checked out and the 'hardship'' of the seller has to be proven.
forums like this are unfortunely filled with sentiments not backed up by action. i still have all the original horses from almost a year ago when pleading for help due to an impending operation.
it is people who are prepared to DO something that is required.
Zan
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 12:05:46 PM Here's how judgemental I am---I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone riding their horse round an auction ring with a sad face. There has got to be a better way to deal with the situation than hand your horse over to the highest bidder with no say in who they are, or what is going to happen to the horse in the future.
Besides, most horses at auction aren't there because an owner has fallen on hard times. They are there because they are surplus to requirements; have outlived their usefullness; they are too "difficult" for the current owner, who probably got it cheap elsewhere or because the breeder bred too many foals. The comments quoted by Lila from the seller of the Arab mares at Llanbydder who didn't even bother to go along and see where they landed up say it all for me about auctions.
navaho621
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 08:52:42 AM If the owner is caring & is forced down the sale route there is always the option to sign your passport as not for slaughter, & you do on occasion see ones entered for Llanybydder, usually denoted by the NFS by the horses name, obviously this still doesnt stop them being bought by a dealer & getting passed around. I think the big thing is most of us will never be in the position to ever have to think about sending our horses to a sale, so its easy for us to take the moral high ground, however sometimes things arent always within our control & sadly sometimes sales are the only option, when your talking about having a horse PTS, that can run into hundreds of pounds (i only know too well how much disposal of a horse costs & i was shocked!), & if your bordering on the edge of financial oblivion your not going to be able to find the costs to PTS & the only option if a home cant be found quickly is to take your horse to a sale. Its not a pleasant thought & a position i hope & pray i will never be in, but please do think for a minuite before being judgmental about other peoples descions, how many times have you seen sad faces riding horses round the sale ring, ive seen many over the years, not everyone is there through choice.
precious
Posted - 29 Jun 2009 : 08:09:45 AM totally agree Pat well said
barbara.gregory
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 10:27:20 PM "simply because the purchaser did not realise that buying, is the cheap part of the deal!!!"
Maybe that is why the new owner did buy at the sale so that he/she would have enough money left for insurance etc. i am not convinced that it is better to put a young healthy horse down rather than send it to a sale. I think there are pweople who genuinely care for their horses who have been unable to sell them and would rather they went to auction than to slaughter. That is their choice and we should respect it. We all hope that we are never in that situation but until we are we shouldn't judge others. I know it would break my heart to put down my youngsters who I lovingly bred; the excitement of choosing the stallion, the 11 month wait for the foal and the joy the foal had brought me as it grew up. Could I kill it when there was an alternative? I really don't think I could. It is different with an old horse but I am sure there are people who will think it is no different whatever the age.
Just my tuppence worth and I pray I am never desperate enough to have make that choice.
Barbara
BabsR
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 9:30:31 PM Well pointed out Zan..........there is more a chance of a horse purchased from a sale for peanuts....to end up the emaciated horse hidden behind a wall, simply because the purchaser did not realise that buying, is the cheap part of the deal!!!
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 9:17:47 PM Kimzi, it isn't a choice between an emaciated horse hidden behind a wall or a sale! None of mine will have either fate befall them and I am by no means a wealthy person. It is a question of priorities.
The prices you quote for euthanasia and cremation are no more than any vets bill can be at any time---and not for anything particularly complicated. If someone can't afford vet bills when they come along , well maybe they shouldn't have had that horse in the first place. That isn't me being elitist---that is me putting the horse first. Buying a horse cheap is only the very start of the cost, and that is why horses bought cheap at sales so often have uncertain futures, change hands frequently, and land up as that emaciated horse behind the wall maybe. Which brings me back to why sales should be closed down.
kimzi
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 8:45:06 PM I guess this is why the general public view horsey people as elitist snobs, obviously none of us ever fiancially struggle or fall on hard times, better a sale than an emaciated horse hidden behind a tall fence.euthanasia is not free, disposal even at an abbatoir is not free. Then for each extra horse owned it adds up. My June bill for losing a very dear old friend after the colic call out and drugs was £120 to vet and then £525 to the crematorium, I would never wish to see a fit healthy horse be euthanased just because the bottom has fallen out of the private sale market and it is becoming hard to give horses away at the mo. Going off to hide now.
Zan
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 7:55:22 PM Well said Pat
Those who point out that some horses at sales find good homes are completely missing the point--- Lots of them don't--- they go to the meat man or go on to one home after another after the sale, or back to the sale.......stuff no horse should ever have to endure. I would be very happy indeed if all horse sales were closed, so that owners have to take responsibilty for what happens next to their horses, instead of deceiving themselves that they are giving the horse a chance by sending it to a sale.
Judith S
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 7:41:33 PM Pat, Babs.....my sentiments exactly.......
BabsR
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 4:07:36 PM Totally Agree and echo your comments Pat. No, never will we ever send a horse to a sale, whatever our hardship!!
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 2:27:07 PM My animals are my family, my best friends, and no matter what the circumstances, they will never have a £1 over their heads. Not even if we were on our last legs financially.
They will never want for anything, because if and when I cannot look after them, they will be PTS.
If sold, Even to lovely peaple with the best intentions, sometimes their own circumstances change, and I could not gamble my animal family with an un-certain future.
I know its not everyones choice, but its mine, and its a very hard one.
I hope with all my heart that the horses got good homes, that were moved on in the sale.
Gerri
Posted - 28 Jun 2009 : 08:32:50 AM Kimzi I think we are talking about different people.. maybe there are two John Dyer autioneers???????? I think I will just leave it there
kimzi
Posted - 27 Jun 2009 : 10:30:31 PM Yep many faces from old like albert, you must know him, absolute fountain of knowledge and one council leader who will not tether, if you wnat to know the real ins and outs and what is behind buyers, sellers and dealers that attend he is the person to ask. At the end of the day if it reaches good money its not a rescue and those are the women that martins usually end up offering their services to and we often see bragging at local shows about their quite expensive rescue case in so and so class.
