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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2015 : 8:47:53 PM
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I am having a bit of a saddle nightmare at the moment. I have a Thorowgood endurance model which I got because it's so lightweight and easy to clean. I've been very happy with it for three years but on the last saddle check in October the saddle was sitting too low at the front and too wide, so the fitter reflocked it and it now fits 'correctly'. However, a few weeks ago I started having problems with Raf, he didn't want to bend to the left and my RI thought it would be the saddle, although we couldn't find anything wrong with the fit, even with her Port Lewis pad test. So got physio out and she also thinks saddle, but again can't see anything wrong with the fit. The saddle fitter is coming back to check but if it appears to fit correctly where does that leave me?
So thinking back, the time we were both happiest was in the Freeform treeless saddle I used to have. I sold it because I like to do a bit of jumping and dressage and needed a 'legal' saddle. However I think Raf had better topline and his wither wasn't so pronounced in that treeless saddle, as well as having no back problems. He was a lot younger then though, so maybe his shape has just changed with age.
So, I was wondering whether a Strada, with it's close contact style and flexible tree, would be a happy halfway house between treed and treeless for us both. I've searched on here and found some people who recommended them and a thread by Callisto, who was in the process of getting one, but I don't know the outcome!
I don't really want to spend a fortune on a saddle if I don't have to, but really do want Raf to be comfortable. He has quite a short back, needs a 17" saddle and has some wither, big shoulders and what the saddler tactfully describes as an 'Arab barrel', with a forward girth groove.
Any experience of Strada saddles or any other advice much appreciated.
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East Yorkshire |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 08:58:05 AM
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So thinking back, the time we were both happiest was in the Freeform treeless saddle I used to have. I sold it because I like to do a bit of jumping and dressage and needed a 'legal' saddle. However I think Raf had better topline and his wither wasn't so pronounced in that treeless saddle, as well as having no back problems. He was a lot younger then though, so maybe his shape has just changed with age.
You have just found your problem, but may not understand it yet!
Why did Raf have a better top line! Why was his wither not so pronounced! Why is his wither pronounced now!
Your saddler is fitting your saddle to the shape your horse is now.
Let's start with the 3 rd question, the reason his wither is pronounced now is because he has become the shape of the saddle.
2nd, the reason he did not have a pronounced wither is because he had room to move in the saddle and hadn't damaged / restricted the shoulder.
1st, the reason he had more top line is because he could use all his back neck and shoulder muscles.
In time your horses wither will get more and more pronounced till you are fitting him in to a narrow and his wither looks like a coat hanger. You may also start to have problems under saddle and his back will start to look wasted, ( this is considered normal) and is not a true representation of a heathy back.
You can get your horses back, back to what it should be, but it will take some time and it will cost more in the short run.
It's a path most won't go down as they think there is not a problem anyway. Once you realise the damage done by bad fitting saddles there will be no turning back.
I think you know this from what you have said, and are looking for a better way.
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Edited by - glo on 24 Jan 2015 09:10:45 AM |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 09:18:24 AM
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Thanks Glo, you are quite correct. I knew what was happening, but didn't know why. What you say makes such perfect sense.
Plus, I've got exercises from the physio (stretches and in-hand pole work) which are already, after only 2 weeks, building up his topline, so his back is only going to change more.
The question is what do I do about it? I need an open minded saddle fitter that will work with me on this.
I had problems with the Freeform too - around stability and the worry of over girthing to compensate, so it wasn't ideal. There must be a compromise somewhere. |
East Yorkshire |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 11:38:26 AM
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If your open minded! Look on Balance international or Lavinia Mitchell web pages, it explains a lot and there are lots of photos of before and after.
I prefer to ride in a balance saddle and use the balance pads, you can use the balance pads with the LM saddles, they both wide fitting.
Best to use a wintic elastic girth, one with the elastic in side the girth with either of these saddles as the wrong girth can make it disastrous. You will be able to feel the horse move from side to side and forward and back some thing that is not so obvious with a tight fitting saddle.
I have used both these saddles and not had any back problems for the last 15 or 16 years. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 11:43:46 AM
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| Just to add they have saddle fitters that will come and fit a saddle to you horse and there is after care as well as your horses will change shape after a few months. But best of all they are open minded and if they think that you saddle could fit would do that to save money, they have a range of second hand saddles. |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 3:39:09 PM
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| Thanks so much Glo - loads of info on those sites. At the moment I'm erring towards a Lavinia Mitchell saddle, but haven't finished reading all the info yet - it's fascinating stuff. |
East Yorkshire |
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Nuttyneddy
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 5:49:55 PM
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The Stradas are lovely saddles, especially if you like a flattish seat. I have an older one for sale if you decided to go down that route, and wanted to try one without spending too much money (I am moving to completely treeless, because the Strada doesn't fit my mare and the treeless will fit both of them - the Strada has to go to help pay for the new one!)
Ilga (the Strada lady) is very good and will send you out all the saddle trees so you can try them on your horse and see which one fits - then you will know which to look out for if you are looking for secondhand (if you want a new one she will come out and fit for you). |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 10:17:30 PM
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| I would also recommend Lavinia Mitchell. |
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Barefoot Unicorn
Junior Member
England
48 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2015 : 4:05:42 PM
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I have had both Freeform saddles and Strada. At first I thought the Freeform short back was the best saddle ever.
I had no stability problems, no pressure, free movement. Every one happy. I don't know why, but I sold it . Regretted it.
I will get another one.... the correct treeless wool pad is also key in fitting a treeless.
Had a Strada, and that seemed perfect. Then issues started creeping in, my mare started falling away in her topline and my physio confirmed she was sore through her wither area and her back. Then she went lame. She never acted or went in a way that made me think she was uncomfortable...but she really was. With time off and a treeless Torsion with no pommel insert, and working with Myofascial release Therapy she is bouncing back, she is 20 but is feeling on top form now.
Lavinia Mitchell is also the only treed saddle fitter I would use. The concept of fitting a wider saddle and shimming for comfort, movement, blood flow to muscle, to enable pain free movement for the horse. I have just bought a T8 Thorowgood Cob dressage for my young Arab, through a LM fitter. Am really pleased with result. She does not just sell her own brand but is a wealth of information on saddle fit. She has a keen interest in Arabs and their shape. Check her website out.
If any one has a Freeform short base...... |
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Faracat
Silver Member
270 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2015 : 5:08:59 PM
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| Have a look at the SMART Solution saddle as they look more 'normal' and are fine to use at competitions. |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2015 : 7:36:26 PM
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Thanks very much everyone. I think I'm going off the idea of Strada now and leaning towards Lavinia Mitchell, although those Solution saddles do look nice - but go over the £2k mark. I'm impressed by the pictures of jumpers and eventers. Does that mean there are no slippage issues with Solutions I wonder?
I asked my RI whether she had any experience or opinions of any of these saddles and she said she'd ridden in a balance saddle and found it rather wide, which she said might not be a bad thing for Raf, as he is rather narrow.
What I need is a saddle fair, where representatives from different saddle companies come and show off their wares and you can take your horse and arrange to try out the saddles you're interested in.
Looks like I will have to do the leg work myself though. I can see this might take some time. |
East Yorkshire |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2015 : 9:38:22 PM
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I have ridden in a Solution saddle, a few times, I did not like it, I found it to confusing for me, but my friend had 2 of them and liked them, you have the saddle to fit your size and because they are treeless will then fit any horse.
On the down side, we used to get on on a very high mounting block, as there is no way you would be able to get on from the ground, and once on top there was not way you could do the girth up.
I never got off and tried from the ground or a bit of a bank, so I don't know if it would have slipped, it stayed put when riding, but it would not be my first choice. It was something I may I looked at, but again the cost of a second hand one is more that I would want to pay. |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2015 : 10:15:39 PM
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| Originally posted by glo
On the down side, we used to get on on a very high mounting block, as there is no way you would be able to get on from the ground, and once on top there was not way you could do the girth up.
I never got off and tried from the ground or a bit of a bank, so I don't know if it would have slipped, it stayed put when riding, but it would not be my first choice. It was something I may I looked at, but again the cost of a second hand one is more that I would want to pay.
Thanks Glo, this is exactly the problem I had with the Freeform and tbh it was a nuisance, even though I rarely mount from the ground, but at my age sometimes the bladder won't last a full ride which necessitates a bit of downtime, and then there never seems to be a suitable place to get back on. I'd love to be able to effortlessly vault back into the saddle, but think I'd probably just smack into Raf's side and fall on my back, which would distress him, being a sensitive soul.
The other thing I didn't like was messing about with the pad (I had a shimmed Mattes pad), because it had to be absolutely correctly placed on the horse, before the saddle was put on top. If it was windy or I was in a rush this was always a bit of a nightmare. |
East Yorkshire |
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Faracat
Silver Member
270 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2015 : 12:20:15 AM
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I have a 2nd hand solution freestyle dressage saddle for my grey and it's lovely. I do always mount from a block, I can do the girth up when mounted and it's never slipped.
The SMARTs are expensive. I keep trying to save up for a jumping one, but vets bills keep scuppering that plan. :( |
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FireLight
Gold Member
620 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2015 : 11:44:51 AM
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| I had a Solutions saddle and it was a nightmare for me and my horse. It slipped and made me feel as if I couldn't ride as I was constantly trying to keep it from slipping. It also cost me a small fortune in physio bills for my boy as he had soreness in the wither and girth area. They are popular though and I know people who love them, just not for me - a very expensive mistake! |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2015 : 06:36:13 AM
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Thanks, as it turns out my RI has a Solution (that she doesn't use) which she says I can have a sit in.
Still liking the Lavinia Mitchell idea best - although I wouldn't be seeing Lavinia herself as she's too far away, but one of the approved saddle fitters on her website. Do you think that would be a problem?
Also thought about trying a Balance saddle, although that looks a bit more complicated, they seem to have something called Test Ride Facilitators, which I assume means you can try a saddle but the TRFs aren't approved fitters. Not sure.
The thing I can't seem to find on either website, is how the pad systems work - I mean do you use them all the time or just if your horse needs shims? And are they easy to use?
Thanks for all your help. I'm going to give the LM fitter a ring later. |
East Yorkshire |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2015 : 07:41:52 AM
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The saddles are wider than a ordinary saddle, they will put the saddle on the horse to see if it sits right on the horse, if it's ok then a back pad and saddle cloth will be added, if your horse is very wasted or high withered a small pad may be added over the front on the bace pad. When it's girthed up as if you are going to ride, with 2 fingers on the back, side of the saddle it should not tip forward and lift up. If you can lift the back of the saddle it's to narrow!
Latvian is very good and I am sure that any fitter she has said is ok would be. Best though to phone for a chat before you do any thing. Balance is the same to fit. Lavinia also has second hand balance saddle for sale and she worked for balance for a long time before making her own saddles.
You would be well looked after, but it will be very different riding in either saddle, so that is why you a try them, and they can explained how they work. They won't just sell you a saddle and leave you to get on with it. |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2015 : 8:22:30 PM
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| We have had Strada saddles and LM saddles and problems with both. |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
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Arachnid
Platinum Member
England
1872 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2015 : 09:21:48 AM
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Frankly if you look hard enough you will find a negative comment about ANY make of saddle. Its a question of what works for your horse. If you could find someone with a same-shaped horse as yours doing the same kind of work you might be a bit ahead of the game. Its a subject close to my purse.
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West Sussex |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2015 : 1:23:17 PM
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I ride a friends horse in my balance saddle and leave it at her yard, went to ride yesterday and my saddle had her stirrups on it! I as not amused! Any way she said that she had been using it on her mare a very slight Arab, I have fitted it with the pads to a cob x Arab!
She has lessons each week and her instructor said that she had never seen her horse work so well, and my friend said she had never had such a good lesson, and also she had ridden in it several times since, and asked if she could use it yesterday.
So I rode in her horses very uncomfortable saddle, in pain, wile she rode in my lovely comfy saddle, she wanted to ride for longer wile I had to get off and walk!
These horse are very different size and shapes, but the saddle fitted both, the saddle is stable both up and down hill and never moved on both horses, this is how versatile the saddle are.
Like others have said what works for one doesn't work for others. Wile I have not had a problem with saddling for years using both saddles, I have not had a back problem, dispute using both saddles on lots of different horses.
My friend said dispute her mare going the best she had ever seen it, the instructor said that the saddle was to wide for her, and not to use the pads, and it would be on its own, as the pads are designed to work with the saddle.
In my option this is why is does not work for some, if your always told your saddle dose not fit, you would go back to a normal saddle. This is why you need to read how it works and understand it. Once you understand how it works it's like a light has been turned on and you would never go back.
Do your research, look at all the pros and cons, it's not a lot of money in the long run, when you think how much it costs to have your horses back checked every months, like you said you have spent a lot already. |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2015 : 8:58:56 PM
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| Liz100 we have Ideal VSD Absolute saddles and a fitter that knows what she's doing. |
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2015 : 6:13:01 PM
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I have 2 Stradas that suited all my last 3 Arabs very well indeed. I have used them during clinics of up to 1 week in length (5-6 hrs/day in the saddle), pleasure rides, TREC comps & on a 3-day trek whilst remaining very pleased with them. I am overweight, so saddle issues show up quickly  |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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Liz100
Silver Member
United Kingdom
370 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2015 : 12:43:26 PM
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Thanks for all your help everyone. I had a consultation with the Lavinia Mitchell fitter last night and hope I won't have to look any further. I tried two saddles - the VSD which Raf strode out in beautifully, he normally only walks that well in the bareback pad, and trotted comfortably on both reins, including circles. Next tried the dressage, but within seconds he told me he didn't like it as much - swishing his tail and twitching his back - so abandoned that idea straight away. I felt really comfortable in both.
I was very impressed with the fitter, don't think I'm allowed to name names on here but if anyone is interested PM me. She wasn't at all pushy and even said there was no need to buy a new saddle as mine could be altered to achieve the same effect. However, there was no point in her coming out and me not trying the saddles!
Now got the VSD on trial, can keep it for a few weeks at no charge so I can hack out and have a lesson in it. Really quite excited, hope this is 'the one'. |
East Yorkshire |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2015 : 6:38:16 PM
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| How exciting. Let us know how you get on. |
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Strada Saddles
