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NatH
Platinum Member
 England
2695 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 2:54:32 PM
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To cut a long story short my Roxi is being treated by my Vet for an unexplained itchy spell.
She has never been an itchy sort before. About 2 weeks ago she started to rub her face, raw. So bad she was knocking her eyes and making them swollen.
The latter part of this Summer, when she has been in the stable out of the flies I have noticed that shes rubbed her tail. Not too bad, nothing that a spray wouldn't straighten out.
Still unexplained but our thoughts were an allergic reaction to something she'd eaten or been stung by.
I bumped into an old Arab Horse friend at a Show yesterday, she was asking where Roxi was and I went on to explain her plight. Angie said 'you haven't changed her food recently have you?', no was my initial answer but I have over the Summer Months weaned mine onto Simple Systems. Can't speak more highly of the products, ethics and support from the Company itself.
She reminded me of a similar problem she'd had many moons ago when she introduced Alfalfa to her Arab gelding's diet.
Anyone else had anything similar?
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Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 2:59:07 PM
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| If Lily has molasses in her diet she does the same thing, although she has never rubbed her face sore. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 3:32:55 PM
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| My little lad cannot have alfalfa as it upsets his tummy giving him runny poo and also makes him itchy, i think there was some article about it the other week, maybe in horse & hound but don,t quote me on that. I can however feed the dried grass chops etc to him with no side effects. |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 3:52:50 PM
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| One of our mares legs filled up when we tried her on Alfalfa. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 4:21:31 PM
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This is all very interesting.
Keep your experiences coming.
If I think about it Roxi's coat has been scurfy and dull of late ... |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 5:23:08 PM
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| Yep - definitely. I've heard of plenty of skin issues when feeding alfalfa, along with behavourial issues and hoof problems. Its very high in protein and some horses don't seem to tolerate it at all well. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 7:38:26 PM
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My horses used to get really bad mud fever as we are on heavy clay here. I then read an article about photosensitisation being linked to alfalfa and that the horses were also prone to mud fever and rain scald. I stopped feeding it and never had mud fever again. I had some lucerne (alfalfa) hay at the start of this year as I couldn't get anything else at the time. The horses liked it and as it is very stalky it had lots of chew value for them. I have bought some more this year and am feeding it along with meadow hay so I will be keeping a close eye on them to ensure they don't start getting mud fever again. If they do I will stop using it.
Barbara |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 7:59:51 PM
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| Yes..I think my gelding has a slight reaction to it. He was fed it as a yearling with no probs, then off it during the summer. Put him back on it during winter as a 2yo and he came up with lumps over his barrel area (mostly on one side). Couldnt figure out what it was, not thinking they are more likely to react the 2nd time they get it. He came off it and was fed Just Grass instead and lumps gradually went down. Then in spring this year I was giving it to my mare so he got it too and lumps came back, again same area and tail very itchy! Like rubbing the skin on underside raw. So hes back on the Just Grass, no lumps and no itching. |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 9:04:08 PM
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Skin problems and footiness are common reactions to alfalfa.
We had a livery last year who arrived with 'sweetitch' and was feeding SS, change of feed and hey presto no sweetitch. |
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Lizbuf
Bronze Member
England
106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 11:06:08 PM
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| My gelding had a reaction when I changed his feed to Alfalfa. He was always sensitive but it made him itchy and small chunks of his coat started to drop out. He also started loosing his shoes, something he had never done in all the years I had him. His feet just became so weak. Once I realised the connection and took him back off alfalfa he was fine x |
Liz x
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 09:00:33 AM
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Perhaps my thoughts are right then.
I've stopped the SS with immediate effect and lets see what happens.
I'll keep you all posted |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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ABJ
Gold Member
734 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 11:22:48 AM
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| I'm really sorry to hear about Roxi. But I feel that I should stick up for Lucerne!! Lucerne has been used for horses not just for centuries but for millennia. It is possible for any horse to be allergic or sensitive to anything. But Lucerne, in it's pure form, is so unlikely to cause problems. Vets often use it as an exclusion diet for horses with multiple or unexplained allergies (Horse and Hound, 31st Aug 2010). Many companies sell Lucerne/Alfala but mix it with molasses, straw, soya or rapeseed oil and add preservatives, any of which can cause reactions in sensitive horses. Horses that react to these feeds are then thought to be reacting to the lucerne when it may not be the case at all but a reaction to the other ingredient(s). There can be many reasons why horses itch in the autumn -having gone through the summer on the same feed with no problems- midges increase with rain after a dry spell, the coat change can cause rubbing, some wormers, parasites, changes in the grass growth, supplements to name a few. Please consider there are many reasons why a horse may itch. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 2:17:29 PM
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Thanks Abi for your imput, its appreciated.
As you know I feed SS so Roxi has not been subjected to any other ingredients in her diet.
I know there are lots of things, which can cause itchiness but I really haven't changed anything apart from her diet.
I would still like to think that she has been bitten or stung by something.
Despite all the usual Veterinary treatments & advice, 2 weeks on we are still in the same itchy state.
As of last night I've stopped her feed, just giving her carrots & we'll see what happens. I'll keep you all posted.
I'm sure my Roxi will want to be the first to be allergic to Lucerne |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 5:48:37 PM
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I would stop the carrots as well, Nat, as they are high in sugar. I can't prove that my horses had a problem with alfalfa but they haven't had mud fever since I stopped using it. We will see what happens this winter as I have some lucerne hay.
Barbara |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 5:57:41 PM
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| My old mare (unfortunately not here anymore) was not allergic to it but just turned bonkers when I fed it! |
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Red Rum
Gold Member
England
508 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 7:43:24 PM
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| Hi I out mine on simple systems and exactly the same thing happened. He is two so know back on haylage and basic pony nuts and sugar beet and he is fine. He rubbed nearly all his mane and tail out and the sides of his face |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 09:29:57 AM
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RedRum, thanks for your imput.
Roxi is rubbing in the same places - side of her face, neck & bum |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 10:34:53 AM
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| ABJ there is so much anecdotal evidence out there that there really is little doubt that lucerne/alfalfa can cause reactions on some horses - in much the same way that grass can. People are much more clued up these days and are well aware that there could be a reaction to other things but the results when starting/stopping particularly with SS feeds are too consistent to ignore. Just because a feed has been used for centuries doesn't mean it is without problems. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 11:20:13 AM
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I think its fair to say that horses, like people, are all different and they can have a reaction to different things. Rhoubi, my other mare seems absolutely fine on it.
I can only assume that Roxi has an intolerance to Lucerne, although it could easily have been a bite from something but by now you would expect the reaction from a bite to have passed.
Only time will tell with Roxi, I've taken her off SS and I'll wait and see.
However, I would still recommend Simple Systems and their products. They are a caring Company and their products are well researched & bench tested on the MD's own herd of Arabian Horses and have been since the 1970s. And the products are sourced in the UK, where possible.
It may be that SS just doesn't suit my Roxi. |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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ABJ
Gold Member
734 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 11:37:33 AM
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| I appreciate that some horses may react to Lucerne and that it is a possiblity. But surely Roxi would have started itching before now if this was the case? Yes you are right Jane has fed her Arabians on pure Lucerne for a long time without any problems or reactions. If you think Lucerne is the culprit maybe try grass pellets instead. Linseed is really good for itchy horses too. I hope Roxi is back to her usual self soon. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 12:40:35 PM
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Thank Abi,
I will try the grass pellets instead of Lucie Pellets.
Roxi has had minor itchiness throughout the Summer, the odd rub of the tail etc. but I had just put this down to the warm weather we were having.
Whilst she is 'under the Vet' I don't want make too much change so I wait until her itchiness has passed before I do anything. We are eliminating one thing at a time. |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 1:11:32 PM
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| I can second the grass pellets , my little lad is fine on them also the Linseed, i found the SS quite expensive to use and now feed similar products but at far less cost . |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 1:55:51 PM
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| I'm happy with SS but that do a grass pellet so I'll try that once she's better and see how we go |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 2:03:50 PM
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I had the same experience as Barbara Gregory with my mare Ahmouna years ago. A winter on box rest with 'mud fever' which miraculously went when she moved yards and was taken off Alfa A and it never returned.
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Roseanne |
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Nichole Waller
Gold Member
England
1168 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 08:30:30 AM
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I have two horses of my own and two that I look after for my nieces. Out of the four horses two of them have sweet-itch which they have had for several years. I changed to SS about 2 years ago and I have to say their Sweet-itch has improved greatly.
I think it has helped so much as they have no added sugar in their diet. They get Alfa A chaff and blue bag grass pellets plus total eclipse. I also add extra linseed to the one who needs to gain weight.
Years ago I fed my mare the Dengie Alfa A and she had a bad reaction to it (big swollen face and glands) but she eats the SS Alfa A with no problems. The Dengie Alfa A has added molasses as well as other things so I'm assuming it was one of these additives that she reacted too rather than the Alfa A itself. |
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NatH
Platinum Member
England
2695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 10:13:28 AM
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Nichole, thats what I like about SS are there is no added crap.
I wanted to take my horses 'back to basics' as I think we all feed our horses too much of this & that.
I shall stick will SS but try Roxi on their grass pellets. |
Natalie
Chapel Lane Arabians
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Topic |
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Allergy to Alfalfa/Lucerne?
